What Are Your Tricks For the Best Sourdough Bread?
05-22-2019, 11:36 AM
#1
Super Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Mendocino Coast, CA
Posts: 4,854
What Are Your Tricks For the Best Sourdough Bread?
I'm on the King Arthur's Flour site again this AM. I'm attempting one of their recipes for, "Extra Tangy Sourdough Bread." I always keep my own starter going and usually just throw together my own. basic recipe for sourdough bread. But today, I thought I'd actually use KAF's recipe. One of the tricks that I see that they do (and I do too,) is to make a sponge with the starter, water and just some of the flour and let it rest overnight. They also let the dough rise for a really long time. Basically, their method is a 2-day affair. Do any of you have any tricks to make great sourdough bread?
I don't have one of those razor thingies to slit the loaf before baking. I wish I did. I just use a sharp knife, but it never looks quite the same as it does in the pix.
Thanks,
~ C
I don't have one of those razor thingies to slit the loaf before baking. I wish I did. I just use a sharp knife, but it never looks quite the same as it does in the pix.
Thanks,
~ C
05-22-2019, 03:22 PM
#3
Super Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The Finger Lakes of upstate NY
Posts: 3,446
I took an artisanal bread class at Wide Awake Bakery last Saturday! It was a long, exhausting day - the class was from 8 - 6, but it's over an hour drive for me. So I had to leave home before 7; of course I think I was worrying about not waking up (retired and rarely have to use an alarm any more), so slept fitfully.
It was really interesting and I learned a lot. Bakeries don't make breads using the rise/punch/knead method. They make a pouliche, pre-ferment, starting at least the day before the actual baking. The preferment is made with their starter, which they keep for years. Instead of kneading, there is a folding method, done 3 or 4 times at intervals of about 45 minutes.
The lame (cutter for top of loaf) is just a straight razor on a handle. You could buy a pack of the blades and use one without the handle. Obviously, just be super careful. The other way we cut the tops was to use scissors! You must have those around, lol.
Home ovens need to be heated to about 500° for at least an hour before beginning the baking. You need either a closed pan that can withstand such high heat (like a dutch oven or cast iron) or a stone that can be put in to preheat while the oven is heating. We made both warm dough (ie, what we had mixed from the pouliche that morning and folded over the course of a few hours) and cold dough (that they had prepared the night before and put in a 45° room. Refrigerator temps are basically too cold. The cold dough was much easier to work with and made a better loaf, as far as rising, holding its shape, and final texture.
There are scads of instagram links and Pinterest as well. We were not given specific recipes... I get it, they are their secret recipes. Rather, we got methods for figuring what we needed, including starting with a number, deducting ambient temp, temp of flour, etc. Did I mention it was really interesting?
Now I have starter ("Chef" in bakery terms). It's 30 years old. There are sites devoted to tracking the microbes in given starters, where they came from and where they have traveled over decades. Like having your own DNA tested, you can have starter tested. And there are sourdough hotels, for when you are not going to be home to care for your Chef. A whole new world.
It was really interesting and I learned a lot. Bakeries don't make breads using the rise/punch/knead method. They make a pouliche, pre-ferment, starting at least the day before the actual baking. The preferment is made with their starter, which they keep for years. Instead of kneading, there is a folding method, done 3 or 4 times at intervals of about 45 minutes.
The lame (cutter for top of loaf) is just a straight razor on a handle. You could buy a pack of the blades and use one without the handle. Obviously, just be super careful. The other way we cut the tops was to use scissors! You must have those around, lol.
Home ovens need to be heated to about 500° for at least an hour before beginning the baking. You need either a closed pan that can withstand such high heat (like a dutch oven or cast iron) or a stone that can be put in to preheat while the oven is heating. We made both warm dough (ie, what we had mixed from the pouliche that morning and folded over the course of a few hours) and cold dough (that they had prepared the night before and put in a 45° room. Refrigerator temps are basically too cold. The cold dough was much easier to work with and made a better loaf, as far as rising, holding its shape, and final texture.
There are scads of instagram links and Pinterest as well. We were not given specific recipes... I get it, they are their secret recipes. Rather, we got methods for figuring what we needed, including starting with a number, deducting ambient temp, temp of flour, etc. Did I mention it was really interesting?
Now I have starter ("Chef" in bakery terms). It's 30 years old. There are sites devoted to tracking the microbes in given starters, where they came from and where they have traveled over decades. Like having your own DNA tested, you can have starter tested. And there are sourdough hotels, for when you are not going to be home to care for your Chef. A whole new world.
Last edited by peaceandjoy; 05-22-2019 at 03:31 PM.
05-23-2019, 03:16 AM
#4
Super Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Medina NY/Naples, FL
Posts: 1,668
PeaceandJoy, Wow! What a class you took! Sounds interesting. I have my own "Chef" that is about 14 years old. It makes a good sourdough, I have just been doing my own thing with it not knowing there was so much to it. I have used King Arthur's sourdough mix which gives it an even more tangy taste to it. So much to learn!
05-23-2019, 07:08 AM
#5
Super Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Mendocino Coast, CA
Posts: 4,854
Peaceandjoy...that sounds like a wonderful way to spend the day. I'm jealous! Thanks for all of the info. I'll definitely try the scissors. You have lots of other great tips too.
My current starter...errr..."chef"... is about 8 years old. I had one that was around 25 years old, but I moved and dumped it out in the process. I think that the one that I have now is better...must be in the genes.
I'm just now learning about folding on the King Arthur Flour site. I'm glad to see that the teachers in your class back up that method. I never thought to do that. I just let it rise in the bowl for the entire time. I'm guessing that it helps to develop the gluten. Did they say why the dough should be folded?
I'm working with a "cold dough," this AM. I followed the instructions on KAF and put mine in the fridge last night. It didn't look very bubbly and fluffy this morning, but it's starting to come alive now, after about 3 hours at room temp. It will probably take all day to reach the super bubbly stage, since it started out so cold. I don't know what temp my refrigerator is at.
I don't have a covered pot, or container to bake my bread in. No pizza stone either. I usually use a pan that is made for baguettes, with holes along the entire bottom to let the heat circulate around it.
Sandra-P...I think that maybe the KAF's kit contains some citric acid to help with that tangy flavor. The promote it's use in their recipes. CA is not a bad thing and perfectly safe to use.
~ C
My current starter...errr..."chef"... is about 8 years old. I had one that was around 25 years old, but I moved and dumped it out in the process. I think that the one that I have now is better...must be in the genes.
I'm just now learning about folding on the King Arthur Flour site. I'm glad to see that the teachers in your class back up that method. I never thought to do that. I just let it rise in the bowl for the entire time. I'm guessing that it helps to develop the gluten. Did they say why the dough should be folded?
I'm working with a "cold dough," this AM. I followed the instructions on KAF and put mine in the fridge last night. It didn't look very bubbly and fluffy this morning, but it's starting to come alive now, after about 3 hours at room temp. It will probably take all day to reach the super bubbly stage, since it started out so cold. I don't know what temp my refrigerator is at.
I don't have a covered pot, or container to bake my bread in. No pizza stone either. I usually use a pan that is made for baguettes, with holes along the entire bottom to let the heat circulate around it.
Sandra-P...I think that maybe the KAF's kit contains some citric acid to help with that tangy flavor. The promote it's use in their recipes. CA is not a bad thing and perfectly safe to use.
~ C
05-23-2019, 07:29 AM
#7
Power Poster
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 10,590
Not a baker but grew up on San Francisco sourdough. Loved it and could never find anything close on the east coast (or anywhere else for that matter) until Panera opened. Love, love, love their sourdough, tastes just like San Francisco sourdough. So my best trick for sourdough is to buy it from Panera! 
05-23-2019, 01:40 PM
#8
Super Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Northeastern Indiana
Posts: 2,800
I gave up on making my own too. I even tried wild plum fermenting to get the correct bugs. Now I just order 6 one pound loaves from Boudin Bread in San Francisco. I freeze them, then eat them one at a time.
05-23-2019, 05:57 PM
#9
Power Poster
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Southern USA
Posts: 15,963
I make most of all our bread. Nothing tastes as good even from the good bakeries here which aren't that great anyway. Sourdough starter seems to change a lot according to the environment you keep it in. The more you make bread the more yeast spores stay in the air to be picked up. The best sourdough I have made is using this starter: It is a very old recipe so no exact measurements are given. Start with a cup of flour and add a little water.
Sour Dough Starter
1. In a mound of flour, make a small well and add the water.
2. Slowly mix the flour and the water, bringing more flour into the center of the well. The mixture will gradually transform from a paste into a small piece of dough.
3. Knead this small piece of dough with your fingers for about 5-8 minutes, until it becomes springy.
4. Place the dough in a small bowl, cover it with a damp towel, and let it sit in a warm spot for 2 or 3 days.
5. When it's ready, the dough will be moist, wrinkled, and crusty. If you pull off a piece of the crust, you'll find tiny bubbles and smell a sweet aroma.
6. Throw away any hardened crust. Refresh the remaining piece by mixing it with twice the original amount of flour and enough water to make a firm dough. Set aside as before.
7. After 1 or 2 days the starter will have a new, fresh look. Remove any dried dough and mix with about 1 cup of flour.
8. Once again, cover the bowl with a damp cloth and leave it in a warm place for another 8-12 hours.
9. When the starter is ready, it will appear fully risen, and a small indentation made with a finger won't spring back.
Now the starter is ready to be used in virtually any sourdough recipe.
Sour Dough Starter
1. In a mound of flour, make a small well and add the water.
2. Slowly mix the flour and the water, bringing more flour into the center of the well. The mixture will gradually transform from a paste into a small piece of dough.
3. Knead this small piece of dough with your fingers for about 5-8 minutes, until it becomes springy.
4. Place the dough in a small bowl, cover it with a damp towel, and let it sit in a warm spot for 2 or 3 days.
5. When it's ready, the dough will be moist, wrinkled, and crusty. If you pull off a piece of the crust, you'll find tiny bubbles and smell a sweet aroma.
6. Throw away any hardened crust. Refresh the remaining piece by mixing it with twice the original amount of flour and enough water to make a firm dough. Set aside as before.
7. After 1 or 2 days the starter will have a new, fresh look. Remove any dried dough and mix with about 1 cup of flour.
8. Once again, cover the bowl with a damp cloth and leave it in a warm place for another 8-12 hours.
9. When the starter is ready, it will appear fully risen, and a small indentation made with a finger won't spring back.
Now the starter is ready to be used in virtually any sourdough recipe.
05-24-2019, 04:54 AM
#10
Super Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Mendocino Coast, CA
Posts: 4,854
OK...so I finished making my bread from the KAF recipe and the results were good...not fantastic, but pretty good. It was very tangy and it rose nicely, but it didn't have those huge holes and super crunchy crust that is evident in classic San Francisco Sourdough Bread. The crumb was not that tough like in SF bread, but rather tender with small, to medium holes and the crust was more like a sandwich bread, soft, not crunchy.
I made the loaves the shape of baguettes, spritzed them with water before I put them in and put a cast iron pan of boiling water in the bottom of the oven. I think that the crust came out soft, because some of the oil transferred from the plastic wrap that was used to cover the rising loaves. (I usually just cover the loaves with a floured dishtowel.) I'm guessing that the large holes did not develop because there was not enough gluten development, in spite of the long kneading and folding process. Next time, I may either use bread flour, or and add a little vital wheat gluten to the flour in the recipe. I did try scissors to slice the tops before baking and that worked out fine.
~ C
I made the loaves the shape of baguettes, spritzed them with water before I put them in and put a cast iron pan of boiling water in the bottom of the oven. I think that the crust came out soft, because some of the oil transferred from the plastic wrap that was used to cover the rising loaves. (I usually just cover the loaves with a floured dishtowel.) I'm guessing that the large holes did not develop because there was not enough gluten development, in spite of the long kneading and folding process. Next time, I may either use bread flour, or and add a little vital wheat gluten to the flour in the recipe. I did try scissors to slice the tops before baking and that worked out fine.
~ C
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
