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Thread: 27 or 28 or ???

  1. #1
    Super Member J Miller's Avatar
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    27 or 28 or ???

    I am looking at a Singer machine that is either a 27 or a 28 or a ????, I do not know how to tell the difference.
    The serial # is B1244748.

    Now there is web sites that will tell you when this # was made and I have that.
    There is also a site that will give you the date that series was allocated and the number of machines in that allocation. I have asked for that link several times from several people and still don't have it.

    And I'm sure there is a page somewhere that will tell what model that machine is by the number. I don't have that either.

    I know these pages are there, but try as I might I've been unable to find them.

    Can somebody please post direct links to these pages? I would really appreciate it.

    Oh and here the link to the auction I'm watching, what model is this?
    http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions...e-9471201.html

    Thanks,

    Joe

  2. #2
    Super Member Charlee's Avatar
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    It's a 27, commissioned on August 1, 1905.
    http://www.ismacs.net/singer_sewing_...-database.html

    The high bobbin winder would in most cases, indicate a 127, but this one has been moved/replaced...you can see the mount for the lower winder if you enlarge the pics. The auction machine is actually a 27.
    One day, you'll only be a memory for some people. Do your best to be a good one.

    http://charleeturner.blogspot.com

  3. #3
    Super Member J Miller's Avatar
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    Charlee,

    Thank you. Now I can go in and update the data on my older Singers.

    Joe

  4. #4
    Super Member J Miller's Avatar
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    Charlee,

    I think I just found a discrepancy in the serial number date chart you gave me.

    Singer 66 Red Eye Treadle, serial # AA 069244 (double checked and verified)

    When I look that number up on the AA page I get this:
    AA- 80201 / 115200 / 15 / 35000 / October 15 / 1924
    The chart shows this number allotted to the Mdl 15.

    Now above that several lines is this line:
    AA- 40701 / 75700 / 66 / 35000 / September 23 / 1924
    If I drop the 0 off the front of my serial number then it would be a 66.

    Am I blind, cross eyed, reading it wrong or did they make an error?
    I'm doing all my old Singers and so far they've all been right on except this one.

    Joe

  5. #5
    Super Member Charlee's Avatar
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    Yes Joe, you drop the first zero in the number. The machine is a 66, Sept. 23, 1924.

    Question, why would you use AA88021 - AA115200 ? The 88021 is past the 69244....
    One day, you'll only be a memory for some people. Do your best to be a good one.

    http://charleeturner.blogspot.com

  6. #6
    Super Member Charlee's Avatar
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    NOT to say there aren't mistakes on the lists...the serial for my 115 comes up as a 25...
    One day, you'll only be a memory for some people. Do your best to be a good one.

    http://charleeturner.blogspot.com

  7. #7
    Super Member J Miller's Avatar
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    88021? I typed 80021 ... really, I just looked again for the 4 th time

    OK, that makes sense I guess. I sometimes take serial numbers literally. If there's a digit on the item I want to see a digit on the chart. Personality flaw I guess.

    So this follows through with the 99K machines too I'll bet. Back to the charts.


    Joe

  8. #8
    Super Member Charlee's Avatar
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    So...an oops on my part, but doesn't change anything, really.
    One day, you'll only be a memory for some people. Do your best to be a good one.

    http://charleeturner.blogspot.com

  9. #9
    Super Member J Miller's Avatar
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    Nah, we all make oopsies. Now I'm looking for the date for a 401A. Serial # NA 660348.
    Any ideas on that one?


    Joe

  10. #10
    Super Member Charlee's Avatar
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    Yep. 1957-1961. This website has more information:

    http://singer301.com/dating/default.html
    One day, you'll only be a memory for some people. Do your best to be a good one.

    http://charleeturner.blogspot.com

  11. #11
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    Joe,

    I can email you a zip file with all of these date charts in it. It is large at 4.7MB.
    I you would like it PM me.

    Cathy

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    I am trying to find out how to determine what I'll call 'sub-numbers' on the various singer models. I.E., 15-91, etc. I have my g'grandmother's restored singer table/case that I'm trying to find a machine for. I have the ismac's site but only get model 66 / 15 / etc. with no -##. When looking at - can't remember if it's the ismac or sandman site - as to which machines fit into which tables, it is very specific as to machine model. Can anyone tell me where I can get more specific model info or how to tell? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

  13. #13
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    NJ Quilter,

    The sub number (-#) does not affect whether or not the machine head will fit in the cabinet. I does affect whether or
    not it is operational in the cabinet. An example is the Singer 15-91. The handwheel on this potted motor model won't
    take a treadle belt, so it won't work as a treadle in a treadle cabinet. The 15-88 (treadle model), the 15-89 (the hand crank model) and the 15-90 (the belted motor model) all have motor bosses so all will accept an bolted on motor or hand crank or a treadle belt. If the power source is removed (handcrank or bolted motor or treadle) these three heads are identical.

    I can't help much with the 66 sub numbers without a little research. I do know that the sub numbers on the 66 also won't affect whether or not they fit the cabinet. It can make a difference in whether or not the bobbin winder will work on the treadle models or if it has a motor boss to take a hand crank or bolted on motor.

    Have you used this feature of Sandman? http://www.sandman-collectibles.com/...r-machines.htm

    I hope I didn't just confuse you more,
    Cathy

  14. #14
    Super Member J Miller's Avatar
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    I just gotta laugh with the Sandman site. I followed all the prompts and fooled it big time. I was looking at our 401A and it said I had a 203. So it's not always reliable.

    Joe

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    Quote Originally Posted by J Miller View Post
    Nah, we all make oopsies. Now I'm looking for the date for a 401A. Serial # NA 660348.
    Any ideas on that one?


    Joe
    What is the difference between the machines 301 and 301A and a 401 and 401A? Also what is the difference between the same model 301 and 301A. I hope that makes sense. Are there attachments that can be bought for them. I have been looking at some older machines. Apparently these are good machines to buy.

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    MistyK,

    The A designation on both the 301 and 401 is to indicate the they were made in the Anderson, SC plant.
    On the 301 there is no difference between the ones with the A and those without as all 301s were made at the Anderson plant. This may also apply to the 401s.

    Both take the slant shank attachments and will work with most of the attachments. The exception is the slant shank walking foot. It works well on the 401, but doesn't work well on the narrow feeddogs of the 301.

    Cathy



    Quote Originally Posted by MistyK View Post
    What is the difference between the machines 301 and 301A and a 401 and 401A? Also what is the difference between the same model 301 and 301A. I hope that makes sense. Are there attachments that can be bought for them. I have been looking at some older machines. Apparently these are good machines to buy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mizkaki View Post
    MistyK,

    The A designation on both the 301 and 401 is to indicate the they were made in the Anderson, SC plant.
    On the 301 there is no difference between the ones with the A and those without as all 301s were made at the Anderson plant. This may also apply to the 401s.

    Both take the slant shank attachments and will work with most of the attachments. The exception is the slant shank walking foot. It works well on the 401, but doesn't work well on the narrow feeddogs of the 301.

    Cathy
    Thank you for the info on the difference between the machines. What is a slant shank? I know next to nothing about machines. The shank sounds like the thing that holds the needle tho. Is that correct? What kind of walking foot would be used with that. After reading around some on the board it sounds like a walking foot is something that you need to actually quilt with. Do you know why the feed dogs on the 301 are narrow. Is that supposed to help the material move better somehow.

  18. #18
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    MistyK,

    "The shank sounds like the thing that holds the needle tho. Is that correct?" No. The shank type indicates how the feet attach to the machine. The slant shank is only for certain Singer machines. Most feet will be low shank, high shank or slant shank. There are also other type of attachment.

    "After reading around some on the board it sounds like a walking foot is something that you need to actually quilt with." A walking foot that fits the machine properly is nice to have for the quilting, but not absolutely necessary in most cases, and usually never needed for the piecing part of quilting.

    "Do you know why the feed dogs on the 301 are narrow. Is that supposed to help the material move better somehow." No. It's a design thing. Older straight stitch machines (301, 221, 201, 15, etc) had no need for widely spaced feetdogs, as the neeedle only goes up and down in a straight plane. When the zigzag models came out the needle moved side to side and would hit the feeddogs if they had not been moved farther apart. The new electronic machine with the very wide zigzag have dogs even farther apart.

    Jenny at sew-classic has a lot of info the you need to read try these two blogs of hers.
    http://shop.sew-classic.com/What-sha...hank-Style.htm (good drawings)
    http://www.sew-classic.com/uploads/W...structions.pdf (good description of what the WF does)

    Cathy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mizkaki View Post
    MistyK,

    "The shank sounds like the thing that holds the needle tho. Is that correct?" No. The shank type indicates how the feet attach to the machine. The slant shank is only for certain Singer machines. Most feet will be low shank, high shank or slant shank. There are also other type of attachment.

    "After reading around some on the board it sounds like a walking foot is something that you need to actually quilt with." A walking foot that fits the machine properly is nice to have for the quilting, but not absolutely necessary in most cases, and usually never needed for the piecing part of quilting.

    "Do you know why the feed dogs on the 301 are narrow. Is that supposed to help the material move better somehow." No. It's a design thing. Older straight stitch machines (301, 221, 201, 15, etc) had no need for widely spaced feetdogs, as the neeedle only goes up and down in a straight plane. When the zigzag models came out the needle moved side to side and would hit the feeddogs if they had not been moved farther apart. The new electronic machine with the very wide zigzag have dogs even farther apart.

    Jenny at sew-classic has a lot of info the you need to read try these two blogs of hers.
    http://shop.sew-classic.com/What-sha...hank-Style.htm (good drawings)
    http://www.sew-classic.com/uploads/W...structions.pdf (good description of what the WF does)

    Cathy
    Thanks! I am sure that I will have more questions, but this will be a start. I have not owned a sewing machine but my family did have treadle. I decided I wanted to do something with fabric and making a quilt sounded like a good project. So I have been reading around the board to see what others are doing. I saw a post, can't remember where I read it, that some guy on here sells machines and fixes them. May try and find him again and see what he may have. I am pretty sure I want an older machine rather than a new one.

  20. #20
    Super Member Charlee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistyK View Post
    Thanks! I am sure that I will have more questions, but this will be a start. I have not owned a sewing machine but my family did have treadle. I decided I wanted to do something with fabric and making a quilt sounded like a good project. So I have been reading around the board to see what others are doing. I saw a post, can't remember where I read it, that some guy on here sells machines and fixes them. May try and find him again and see what he may have. I am pretty sure I want an older machine rather than a new one.
    He's been ill and has some issues getting machines out to those that have sent theirs to him or purchased from him. Mizkaki is the one that you want to talk to about getting a vintage machine...she's an excellent person to do business with.
    One day, you'll only be a memory for some people. Do your best to be a good one.

    http://charleeturner.blogspot.com

  21. #21
    Super Member Charlee's Avatar
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    I should also add that Miriam services and sells vintage machines...I'm not sure what she's got in stock right now, but you might ask her as well!
    One day, you'll only be a memory for some people. Do your best to be a good one.

    http://charleeturner.blogspot.com

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlee View Post
    He's been ill and has some issues getting machines out to those that have sent theirs to him or purchased from him. Mizkaki is the one that you want to talk to about getting a vintage machine...she's an excellent person to do business with.
    Very interesting and quite enlightening. Nice info on your blog. Thanks. From the sound of it shipping could be prohibitive. I will keep Mizkaki in mind. Seems like everyone is going for a Featherweight? and they are expensive on CL. Not sure but it doesn't seem to be as heavy duty enough. At least not for what some are asking for them.

  23. #23
    Super Member Charlee's Avatar
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    Anytime that you buy a sewing machine that has to be shipped, it's going to be expensive. Try your local Craig's List... you can get some awesome machines there, for less money, and servicing these old ladies is easy.
    One day, you'll only be a memory for some people. Do your best to be a good one.

    http://charleeturner.blogspot.com

  24. #24
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    Thanks. You are right about the shipping. Nothing is getting less expensive anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlee View Post
    Anytime that you buy a sewing machine that has to be shipped, it's going to be expensive. Try your local Craig's List... you can get some awesome machines there, for less money, and servicing these old ladies is easy.

  25. #25
    Power Poster miriam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistyK View Post
    What is the difference between the machines 301 and 301A and a 401 and 401A? Also what is the difference between the same model 301 and 301A. I hope that makes sense. Are there attachments that can be bought for them. I have been looking at some older machines. Apparently these are good machines to buy.
    Mizkaki is right - there are ALSO 401G and 411G. they are made in Germany and are made to treadle. If you google search you will come up with pictures I posted on here - how cool is that? I have learned a lot since I posted.
    The American machines are not made to treadle. Yes, you can get attachments, new cords and bobbins from Mizkaki or sew-classic - both are reliable to do business with. Yes the 401 and the 301 are good machines and the 500 is a good machine - I prefer the 403 and the 503 if you can find one of them. The 404 is also a very good machine and usually much cheaper than the 301 - both do straight stitch only. I do not have any machines for sale at this time. When I do I post them on Craig's List for sale locally. When I have time I work on machines locally.
    NEVER let a sewing machine know you are in a hurry.
    good mothers let you lick the beaters - great mothers turn it off first

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