Can you please explain "Clones?"
#1
Can you please explain "Clones?"
I am new to this vintage sewing machine addiction, but have caught it good!
I keep coming across the term "clone" here and am trying to figure it out. I would have thought a clone was not a good thing, but it appears they are good, as there are many beautiful ones posted. A lot of these do not look like their "original" ones, like the 15s I have been looking at here. What makes a clone, and what makes it good or not?
I keep coming across the term "clone" here and am trying to figure it out. I would have thought a clone was not a good thing, but it appears they are good, as there are many beautiful ones posted. A lot of these do not look like their "original" ones, like the 15s I have been looking at here. What makes a clone, and what makes it good or not?
#2
Super Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,091
SD,
The term "clone" as used here refers to the Japanese, and sometimes Chinese and Indian made copies of the Singer Model 15 machines. After WWII Singer's patents on the model 15 had expired and when our government relaxed tariff laws so our former enemies could rebuild there economies at our expense, the Japanese used the Singer 15 as a pattern and went on to embellish it. Many of them were made in colors whereas Singer only made the original style of 15s in black. Other minor changes such as the bed mounted knob to lower the feed dogs were incorporated.
Some machines are not exact duplicates of the Singer 15 but share enough characteristics to be considered clones.
What makes one clone better than the other is up to conjecture. I have a bunch of them and they are all good.
They Japanese made them by the millions for anybody and everybody.
If you look at my avatar pic, that is a JUKI made, HOTHER badged 15 clone. It is one of the best. It's been in my family for as long as I can remember and I'm 61. It was my mom's machine for many many years.
Machines like some of the Free Westinghouse and others that have the top tension on the left face plate and the stitch length lever on the front of the pillar are sometimes mistakenly called clones. They are not as they were of different designs and were contemporaries of the Singer model 15s. At the time they were made Singer still owned the patents on the 15 and would have sued their pants off had they made them like the Japanese did after WW II.
I hope this helps a bit.
Joe
The term "clone" as used here refers to the Japanese, and sometimes Chinese and Indian made copies of the Singer Model 15 machines. After WWII Singer's patents on the model 15 had expired and when our government relaxed tariff laws so our former enemies could rebuild there economies at our expense, the Japanese used the Singer 15 as a pattern and went on to embellish it. Many of them were made in colors whereas Singer only made the original style of 15s in black. Other minor changes such as the bed mounted knob to lower the feed dogs were incorporated.
Some machines are not exact duplicates of the Singer 15 but share enough characteristics to be considered clones.
What makes one clone better than the other is up to conjecture. I have a bunch of them and they are all good.
They Japanese made them by the millions for anybody and everybody.
If you look at my avatar pic, that is a JUKI made, HOTHER badged 15 clone. It is one of the best. It's been in my family for as long as I can remember and I'm 61. It was my mom's machine for many many years.
Machines like some of the Free Westinghouse and others that have the top tension on the left face plate and the stitch length lever on the front of the pillar are sometimes mistakenly called clones. They are not as they were of different designs and were contemporaries of the Singer model 15s. At the time they were made Singer still owned the patents on the 15 and would have sued their pants off had they made them like the Japanese did after WW II.
I hope this helps a bit.
Joe
Last edited by J Miller; 04-30-2014 at 07:44 PM.
#3
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 200
I am new to this vintage sewing machine addiction, but have caught it good!
I keep coming across the term "clone" here and am trying to figure it out. I would have thought a clone was not a good thing, but it appears they are good, as there are many beautiful ones posted. A lot of these do not look like their "original" ones, like the 15s I have been looking at here. What makes a clone, and what makes it good or not?
I keep coming across the term "clone" here and am trying to figure it out. I would have thought a clone was not a good thing, but it appears they are good, as there are many beautiful ones posted. A lot of these do not look like their "original" ones, like the 15s I have been looking at here. What makes a clone, and what makes it good or not?
#5
Thank you, Joe.
The thread "Will the REAL 15 clone please stand up" is what I was reading that got me even more puzzled because of the variety of appearance. I only got partway through yesterday, and will continue on to see if there is more explanation there.
Apparently someone new like me would need to see the insides of the machines and know the years/location (Japan) of manufacture to know it was a clone of the 15 and not a lesser machine design?
I'll keep reading, now...
The thread "Will the REAL 15 clone please stand up" is what I was reading that got me even more puzzled because of the variety of appearance. I only got partway through yesterday, and will continue on to see if there is more explanation there.
Apparently someone new like me would need to see the insides of the machines and know the years/location (Japan) of manufacture to know it was a clone of the 15 and not a lesser machine design?
I'll keep reading, now...
#6
Super Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,091
SD,
Singer changed the 15 somewhere in the 50s or 60s to a more modern design. So any Japanese machine that is patterned after that is still considered a clone.
There is also clones of the 66 / 201s and the 99s.
Here is a traditional black clone:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]473854[/ATTACH]
This is my Commadore
Here is a really pretty clone:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]473857[/ATTACH]
This is an Ambassador
Here is a different shaped clone:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]473862[/ATTACH]
This is my Coronado Princess, sold by the old Gambles Dept Store
Here is a couple non 15 clones:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]473864[/ATTACH]
This is my SEWMOR 404. It's a clone of the Singer 66 with a bit of 201 in the mix.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]473865[/ATTACH]
This is my SEWMOR 303. It's a Xerox clone of the 20s vintage Singer 99K-10 aluminum machine.
So, there are tons of clones out there. They are a fun way to collect different machines.
Joe
Singer changed the 15 somewhere in the 50s or 60s to a more modern design. So any Japanese machine that is patterned after that is still considered a clone.
There is also clones of the 66 / 201s and the 99s.
Here is a traditional black clone:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]473854[/ATTACH]
This is my Commadore
Here is a really pretty clone:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]473857[/ATTACH]
This is an Ambassador
Here is a different shaped clone:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]473862[/ATTACH]
This is my Coronado Princess, sold by the old Gambles Dept Store
Here is a couple non 15 clones:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]473864[/ATTACH]
This is my SEWMOR 404. It's a clone of the Singer 66 with a bit of 201 in the mix.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]473865[/ATTACH]
This is my SEWMOR 303. It's a Xerox clone of the 20s vintage Singer 99K-10 aluminum machine.
So, there are tons of clones out there. They are a fun way to collect different machines.
Joe
#7
Power Poster
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 15,506
Thank you, Joe.
The thread "Will the REAL 15 clone please stand up" is what I was reading that got me even more puzzled because of the variety of appearance. I only got partway through yesterday, and will continue on to see if there is more explanation there.
Apparently someone new like me would need to see the insides of the machines and know the years/location (Japan) of manufacture to know it was a clone of the 15 and not a lesser machine design?
I'll keep reading, now...
The thread "Will the REAL 15 clone please stand up" is what I was reading that got me even more puzzled because of the variety of appearance. I only got partway through yesterday, and will continue on to see if there is more explanation there.
Apparently someone new like me would need to see the insides of the machines and know the years/location (Japan) of manufacture to know it was a clone of the 15 and not a lesser machine design?
I'll keep reading, now...
Here are a couple good articles on the Clones if you would like more information.
http://blog.sew-classic.com/2008/12/...-15-clone.aspx
http://sewing-machines.blogspot.com/...s-and-60s.html
After working on many many 15 clones they are all pretty much alike on the inside but not totally. There are slightly different bobbin race holders. The tension is on the side rather than on the front. The tensions may vary wildly. They are still always on the side. There are some older model machines that have tensions on the side front but the 15s are on the side toward the back. The bobbin is always accessed from the side, too. There are other type clones but that is a different discussion. As far as years of manufacture, the clones mainly are after WWII. The Singer 15s are mainly before that.
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