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Thread: Are Hand Cranks Standard?

  1. #1
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    Are Hand Cranks Standard?

    I have an early Kohler sewing machine (German made). It was originally a treadle. I would like to put it in a base case and put a hand crank on it. I cannot find any information for the machine online. It is a small machine - perhaps 1/2 size - about the size of a Featherweight. I was also wanting to get a hand crank for my Singer VS2 but it is a larger machine so I'm not sure it would fit both of them. Any of you folks with experience with hand cranks know if the size or configuration of them varies?

  2. #2
    Super Member ArchaicArcane's Avatar
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    uh,.. I don't think they're standard, so you may be out of luck on the Kohler unless you find a German or Kohler handcrank. I have the same problem finding information on the Winselmann that I have.

    You'd be hard pressed to put a Singer hand crank on the VS2. The handcranks typically use the motor mount, and both the VS2 and the model 27 that replaced it predate the motor mount. Hmmm,.. that seems to mean that any Singer prior to about 1913 can't be hand cranked? Can anyone confirm that?

    I'd sure love to hear if there's another solution though.

  3. #3
    Super Member jlhmnj's Avatar
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    Singer used the motor / hand crank mount for hand cranks before motors. I have an 1890's singer 28 and 1902 27 with the raised boss. Puzzling why Singer cast 27 heads with and without the mount, maybe there was an upcharge for this added feature.

    For the Kohler, best bet would be to post pics of the machine and arm where the crank would mount.

    Jon
    Last edited by jlhmnj; 05-04-2013 at 12:32 AM.

  4. #4
    Super Member ArchaicArcane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlhmnj View Post
    Singer used the motor / hand crank mount for hand cranks before motors. I have an 1890's singer 28 and 1902 27 with the raised boss. Puzzling why Singer cast 27 heads with and without the mount, maybe there was an upcharge for this added feature.

    For the Kohler, best bet would be to post pics of the machine and arm where the crank would mount.

    Jon
    I didn't realize that! Thanks for that information. Are you sure your 1890s 28 is a 28, and not a VS3?

    My VS2 has no motor mount, but my very late model 1913 27 (according to ismacs) has the motor mount. Now that I think about it, the 1912 28 also has a motor / HC mount as well.

  5. #5
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    Okay, dumb question. What is a boss? I read something a couple of days ago and now I can't find it. I knew I should have paid more attention to that. Here are a couple of photos of the Kohler. There is a hole in the center of the balance wheel that is threaded. Also, look at the top photo of the Tryer at this website. This machine looks very much like the one I have and the photo shows a hand crank on it. http://www.sewmuse.co.uk/Kohler%20sewing%20machine.htm
    Attached Images Attached Images


  6. #6
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    Here are photos of the 1891 VS2. If you need to see something else, or a clearer photo, let me know.
    Attached Images Attached Images


  7. #7
    Super Member ArchaicArcane's Avatar
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    Notice under the handwheel on the kohler, that there's a raised area with a screw hole in it?
    That's the "boss", or "motor boss", what I usually call the motor mount. The distance from the motor mount to the inside of the spoked wheel determines if the crank will fit, and if it clears the handwheel itself (see below).

    The other gotcha is that Singer used their own thread, so the screw for a Singer HC likely won't fit the Kohler.

    Here's a link to Helen Howes' site, I'm not affiliated with her, but I have dealt with her, and she's great.
    http://www.helenhowes-sewingmachines.co.uk/cranks.html
    I wonder if HC002 would work for you. Helen may know and she's very friendly.

    You'll see that all of the cranks have basically 3 parts:
    1. a finger that sits between the spokes
    2. the "Crank" - the gear mechanism
    3. The mounting bracket.

    On the Winselmann I have here, I noticed that the smaller German machines tend to have a long bracket that takes the crank out further than a Singer HC, I think it's because the wheel sits so much lower on the shorter machines, so it needs to come out further to clear.

    ETA: That was not a dumb question btw!

  8. #8
    Junior Member MadCow333's Avatar
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    Didn't some of those very old shuttle machines have, instead of a crank, a knob attachment that worked along the lines of a steering wheel spinner? I seem to remember that getting discussed on TreadleOn back in 1998-1999 or so.

    It could be left in place when the machine was in a treadle for a little extra oomph when needed for heavy fabrics. Or, used in lieu of a bolt-on crank on the machines that don't have a boss.

    Whatever it was, it attached directly to the balance wheel, is what I recall.
    Last edited by MadCow333; 05-04-2013 at 11:34 AM.

  9. #9
    Super Member ArchaicArcane's Avatar
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    OH! I'd love to see one!!

  10. #10
    Junior Member MadCow333's Avatar
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    I can't find any pics. You'd have to rig something. I wonder if a steering wheel spinner could be adapted to work. But probably the elongated handle is more efficient to use. You'd have to rig something, like handle that's on the toy sewing machines.

  11. #11
    Super Member ArchaicArcane's Avatar
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    The other thing is a Singer handcrank cranks away from you, not toward you. If the steering wheel spinner is how I think it is, you'd crank toward you. I'm not sure if it would make a difference, just a point to note.

    I will take a peek around and see if there's a pic in any of my old Singer memorabilia too.

  12. #12
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    Most old Singers have the hand wheel attached directly to the main shaft. So a knob on the hand wheel will have to be turned towards you (not the most comfortable way) and will stitch 1:1 (one stitch per turn). Many old German and other manufacturers had gears to go from the inside of the hand wheel to gears on the main shaft. This reversed the direction of the hand wheel to a more comfortable clockwise direction and allowed a (the usual) 1:3 ration of hand wheel rotation to stitches. I'm not sure if this is what you thinking of.
    My GG-GM's White Prize sewing machine from 1893-1900 is a gear drive hand crank. This gear drive allows a knob to crank the hand wheel away from you. The knob is removable if the machine is put in a treadle. I don't have a treadle (and don't know if there was one), but the treadle belt groove is there. I attached two picture to show the knob on the hand wheel and the gears on the backside, at the bottom of the hand wheel.

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    Cathy



    Quote Originally Posted by MadCow333 View Post
    I can't find any pics. You'd have to rig something. I wonder if a steering wheel spinner could be adapted to work. But probably the elongated handle is more efficient to use. You'd have to rig something, like handle that's on the toy sewing machines.
    Last edited by Mizkaki; 05-04-2013 at 12:52 PM.
    Cathy

    "Most sewing machine problems are due to the carbon based unit in the chair in front of the machine"

  13. #13
    Super Member jlhmnj's Avatar
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    Hi Tammi,

    The serial number is 10562xxx which dates it to 1891 and it's a 3/4 size VS Singer with the raised boss. I call it a 28 though this may be the wrong terminology for one this old. It came with an old walnut bentwood case and I'd love to find a period crank for it which it undoubtedly had at one time.

    Jon






    Quote Originally Posted by ArchaicArcane View Post
    I didn't realize that! Thanks for that information. Are you sure your 1890s 28 is a 28, and not a VS3?

    My VS2 has no motor mount, but my very late model 1913 27 (according to ismacs) has the motor mount. Now that I think about it, the 1912 28 also has a motor / HC mount as well.

  14. #14
    Junior Member MadCow333's Avatar
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    The knob thing I was trying to remember was just just a knob that someone made and attached to the handwheel. So, yes, all it would do is 1:1 but I really hadn't thought that through.

    What some other people did in order to use a standard Singer or other geared handcrank was bolted the handcrank to the side of a cabinet (instead of to the boss on a machine) and then somehow aligned and anchored the machine on top of the cabinet so that the finger of the hc inserted into the spoked wheel. Maybe if you put a piece of that nonskid rubber waffle material under the machine's base that would keep it from moving? I dunno. Just thinking aloud on the Interwebs, here.

  15. #15
    Super Member ArchaicArcane's Avatar
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    Cathy, that White Prize is just gorgeous! I love the look of those old wide based machines.
    One thing I fell in love with on the German machines is all those exposed gears, the name of the one escapes me right now (probably a sign 5 hours sleep isn't enough for me, darn neighbor's chainsaw that got me out of bed!) , 1/2 sized machine, huge handwheel (the base is dished for it) and all the gears showing. You'd never see a machine like that built today, too many pinch hazards. I bet young ones would only get their fingers in there once though.


    jlhmnj - I'm pretty sure that makes is a VS3 There's a chart on this page that can help youconfirm it if you're interested. http://www.singersewinginfo.co.uk/28/

  16. #16
    Power Poster solstice3's Avatar
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    Contact www.theoldsewingmachineman.com he may be able to answer your questions. I am in no way affiliated with him but have spoken to him at quilt shows and he is knowledgable

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