Singer Motor Lube - A discussion
 

So today, I'm in a waiting pattern. A non-driving friend may need me at a moment's notice, so I'm only doing easily picked up and put down projects.

Playing with wiring motors and lights yesterday though got me thinking about motor lube.

There are many opinions about this but I wondered how much was based on testing.
I'd like to have a discussion about this based on the preliminary results, so I'm not going to offer any of my own conclusions yet, just ask for everyone's thoughts on how to proceed.

Things I've heard:

1. The original lube is virtually indistinguishable from Vaseline
2. Vaseline will destroy your motors by liquefying too fast
3. Recent versions of Singer lube are no longer suitable for use in motors
4. A well known featherweight related vendor or two have formulated their own formulas that are quite expensive comparatively vs Singer Lube.

Since we're concerned about melting point, I'd originally thought I might pick up a candy thermometer or some other measuring device that would tell us at exactly what temperature everything was melting at but today I thought... do we need to know that? For preliminary testing at least - not really.

So, I employed my toaster oven, a paper towel and a sharpie and here's what I found.

Since my sharpie did horribly on the paper towel, here's what you're seeing.
From Left to right: 1. Original Singer Lube. 2. Vaseline. 3. "Old" Pink tube formula 4. "New" pink tube formula.

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This is what the 3 lubes look like out of the tube:

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I set the toaster oven temperature around 180F. The first lube melted. I eventually had to raise it to a touch over 200F to get a second lube to melt. For the last 2, I ended up raising it to 300 then 350F before the 3rd started to liquefy. Here's how everyone fared:

• First the Vaseline melted and disappeared. At this point, nothing else was showing signs of state change. Under 200F.
• Next, the "Old" pink lube percolated and boiled then spread and soaked into the paper towel - not unlike a nice cheddar cheese would do. This was about or a little above 200F.
• Then I had to wait. Easily 5 more minutes and then the "New" Pink lube started to melt. At that point I took it out of the oven and tried to take a pic. By that time, the new lube had disappeared into the paper towel. While I was watching the melting points though, I watched the New lube and the original lube saturating the paper towel virtually identically, so it was a bit of a surprise when the original lube didn't liquefy at the same time.

Thoughts? Comments?

Oooh, a science experiment! I'm in!

On the day I just "had to" change the lube in my machines, I was unable to locate Tri Flow lubricant which was recommended by this group. I called the bike shop (nope), the sewing machine place (they only use white lithium - yikes!) and finally a car parts store who assured me their product was just what I needed. I didn't have the patience to order Tri Flow and wait, I had to do it that day...

So I bought NAPA Sil-Glyde. It says on the package that it's non melting to 600 degrees and it contains silicone like the Tri Flow does.

Here's a picture of it before it got baked in my toaster oven.

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Here it is after 5 minutes at 300 degrees.
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To my eye it's not bad. Sure beats Vaseline.

(Tammi - does your toaster oven smell as funky as mine does now?)

As far as the motors, we (or I for sure) don't recommend tri-flow grease for the motors. It's synthetic and doesn't have a melting point (or functionally doesn't. I'm pretty sure the surface of the sun would do something to its state!) I think we usually use Tri-Flow for it's PTFE additive - Telfon - not silicone but I've not had a tube of it in my hands - it's really hard to get here. Great for gears though - just like the "Super Lube" that I CAN buy here.

We ARE wanting some melt but slowly enough as to be somewhat controlled. That's how the lube is delivered to the bushings - the motor warms, which warms the shaft which warms the bushing and then the very smallest bit of the lube closest to the bushing melts and does its job but not enough to "flood" the motor.

Make sure your Sil-Glyde isn't the same. I may wander over to the neighbor's (works for Napa) place and see if he has any to look at the tube and investigate.

I wondered if my original lube didn't liquefy because of age. Perhaps it's compromised in some way.

Uh,.. "luckily" I'm french polishing today so the smell of linseed oil is overwhelming the smell of melted greases. ;) I pity the next person (probably me) who puts a sammie in there though. :D

Aw geez, MOTORS!! I thought you were doing gear grease. My mistake!!

I haven't got anything clever to add, though I always knew there were better greases than vaseline. Does the motor axle get that hot? I am about to rewire the motor on a 201, and what lube do I buy? I have a tube of Finish Line Ceramic grease and a very old tube of Singer grease. Something with teflon? I have to get wicks and possibly carbon brushes too.

I never thought much about the melting point but; grease have a few other factors that play a role. I have thought of it like this:

1. A sort of grittiness too smoothness factor; rub it between two fingers and feel the difference between a smooth grease like Triflow or a white lithium grease.

2. A gooeyness factor; how sticky it is and how it can slow down parts compared to a light flowing oil.

3. How well it coats the parts involved during use and how well it stands up to time.

I want something as smooth as possible, with the least amount of friction involved.

Interesting discussion, I think age (and the changes due to) will be hard to discount since there is no such thing as an original tube that is of recent production?

It's OK. I only clarified in case someone read it and tried it for their motors. Gear grease - Tri-flow or SuperLube hands down for me. My concern is the motor lube because it's the one that we're having trouble with at the moment - should we or shouldn't we use it? I'm also a little skeptical of the newly developed 3rd party lube since one of the companies is the one who "developed" a new screw for the pinker attachment and sells it for a lot. I just bought the same screw at Gregg Distributors for pennies.

Well, this is exactly the situation I was thinking of. I just evaluated the wiring on a 15-91 (and topped up the grease tubes) and rebuilt the motor on the RAF - A 15-30 with what I suspect is an add-on motor.

I don't think the motor axle gets that hot. It shouldn't anyway if the belt is properly tensioned. Maybe I'll try to get one of these motors good and warm and see what temp it gets to. (or if someone else has that technology... since I have no idea what my availability will be for the next little bit.)

To be honest, the results were a little surprising to me. I'm re-evaluating what I thought about lubes.

Some people think the teflon might gum up the wicks. I haven't really decided what I think. I know in my syringe, the white precipitate (which I think is the PTFE or maybe it's the paraffin?) in the oil clogs the syringe a bit.

Somewhere, I've read that the melting point is important to the motor wick function. I'll try to remember where it is. Some Singer literature - I think.

Well, I was stunned that that the original took so long to liquefy, especially considering a video I watched not long ago. That said, I can only compare to what I have and since most people say if you have the old tube and it's not all liquid or crusty, use it... I figured it was as good a comparison as any. ;)

I should also mention that many "experts" say that a low melting point is important. Which makes sense because of what Mickey2 mentions - the motor axle/shaft doesn't get that hot. It also appears that there are at least 2 original formulations of the singer Lube. The UK lube has a significantly lower melting point than the US version.

I checked my Finish Line Ceramic grease, it's smooth and fine between my fingers, but no melting at all on a hot plate (what?). Its' a syntetic type. I imagine it will last long if I manually grase every part along the motor axle, but I'm guessing not the slightest part will ever wander off the wicks. The motor would need an annual check?

I need a new grease apparently, I did a google search and I'm non the wiser.


/me googles old fashion grease...

That's exactly what I would have expected. Most shops say that the Finish Line brand is an exact replacement for Tri-flow. Synthetic Lubes typically don't have a melting point - which is why we say not to use them in the motors. we -want- melt to have controlled lubrication of the bushings/bearings.

I wouldn't use the synthetic, even if I was disciplined enough to check once a year. A couple of reasons - I prefer not to disturb the motor wiring more than necessary and manual checks/lubing every year is a lot of disturbance for 50 - 80 year old wiring. 2. It's not likely to always be me checking these machines. One day, I won't be around for their maintenance - whether I sell the machine or start pushing up daisies. 3. Why cause myself more work than necessary?

You need a grease with a relatively low melting point - which means it will be an organic of some sort. I find it interesting though that the 2 places that seem to say "NO petroleum jelly" are the same 2 places that sell their own "formula". Sew-Classic still recommends PJ: 4th paragraph.

I'm also going to try to pop into an electric motor shop and see what they say.

I don't use grease much, but I do a few places on my bicycle, (bearings and internal gear hubs). I have turned to oil when possible, there's noticeably less resistance and everything shifts better. I have noticed the same with my 201K, so I oil the meshing gears, it's belt driven so there's no worm gear or potted motor. I like Finish Line Ceramic Wet Lube, it's the only bottle I have bought over and over in their brand. It's classified as a syntetic oil but of petroleum origin. I keep a bottle of TriFlow too, it's nice and smooth. I'm side tracking; I couldn't find any other grease than triflow on Sewclassic, no own brand stuff?

The gears need grease because the oil flings off of them leaving them unprotected. The general rule for anything high speed rotating or reciprocating - is oil every 8 hours. The gears though, I think would need it sooner than that because of the cross cut gears meshing together and squishing things out. My 201HC is greased (as is my potted motored one) and all I can hear when I crank is the hand crank.

From what you're saying then Tri-Flow isn't a direct comparison for Finish line then. On the TF bottle at least, there's no mention of synthetic.

Right. 2 other vendors are selling their own formula for grease and state that you shouldn't ever use PJ.
Sew-Classic doesn't sell her own brand and on the link I posted above that links to her Tri-flow grease page - it states that you should not use TF Grease in the motors, only PJ.

Oh, I see, I was a bit slow the PJ part, abbreviations have really caught on!

I keep an eye on the gears and I swear, the Finish Line Ceramic Wet stuff sticks well to the metal. I oil frequentily everywhere, two drops on the gears. When I have taken of those black caps covering the two gears underneath they are well coatet in oil, I assume I reach them by the oil points. The manual for my 201K, which I assume is the original, calls for oil, I really can't be way off? My machine has the motor sound when running, but still, I think it runs better on oil. I have greased them with best telfon grease, but I ended up cleaning it off and since I have only used oil.

I have several owners manuals for I believe White and White made Kenmores that actually states to use petroleum jelly in the motor lube pots. So that is what I use in those machines and it works quite well.

For Singers I use Singer motor lube in a variety of vintage tubes. I've amassed quite a few. No two look the same as they come out the tube, but they work.

I haven't bought any of the newly made replica stuff yet, so I don't know how it works. And I've not used any PJ in my Singers as of yet. However I fail to see why it would not work as the Singer motors work on the same principle as the White motors.

When I rewired my first 15-91 I used Singer motor lube as the lube pots lube both the gears and the motor shaft bearings. That has worked well.

Somewhere back a couple years ago someone, perhaps here on the QB, did a test where they melted Singer motor lube, PG and IIRC Tri-Flow grease and measured the temp when it started to melt. The temp for this test was, again IIRC, 115 degrees for the Singer grease and PJ. The Tri-Flow of course never melted.

I do not know much about greases other than what I used in automotive applications. Sometimes, like in drum break type wheel bearings you need a grease that will soften up with heat and flow back onto the bearings. With disk breaks that run far hotter you need a more heat resistant grease that will not melt at as low a temperature.

I think sewing machine motors are more like the drum break bearings than the disk breaks. The temp is lower and needs grease that will soften up at a lower temp.. Hense the PJ as stated in the old White manuals or the grease Singer sold.

I do wish we could find a readily available source of grease that was the same as the Singer grease. It would sure make matters simpler.

Joe

Well, I looked in both the owner's manual I have here and in the service manual. They both say oil, so I'd say keep on with it. I've always used grease but that might be because my first machine was a featherweight (sort of) and that's where I learned G for G - Grease for Gears and it was reinforced through other sources. If the 201 manuals specifies oil, it should be fine as long as you keep an eye on it.

For what it's worth, Joe - I agree with you. I think that a lot of the "PJ BAD!!!!" information is FUD. Properly used - there should be no risk with it. i.e. there's not enough put into the grease pots/tubes without seriously forcing it in there to flow as far as the commutator - causing smoke, glazing, etc. A properly adjusted belt should eliminate the issue of excessive heat that leads to over melting as well. If it were put in the brush tubes - as we've all seen and heard about - of course there will be damage - Singer Lube and the other products would do the same.

I can't seem to use the old lead tubes without them bursting at the seams lately, which is what prompted this thread. I'm tired of the cleanup every single time and I've decided to just start using something else. That's when I did that test (the new scientific way - you know, with a result in mind and the testing to prove it. ;)) and then was shocked by how late the original lube started to melt.

Mickey2 and I were discussing the same thing - the motor shaft shouldn't ever get so hot as to melt a grease that melts at 300F or more. If it does, something has already gone very very wrong. So, a low melting point is needed - that seems an argument for the PJ again. I've heard/read the same things about the Singer Lube and PJ being the same - spread rate and melting points. I suspect there was an additive in the Singer lube to make it look different. That said, according to a video on the lubes from one of the companies I mentioned above with their own formula (who notably doesn't test or mention PJ in the video) - the UK and US formulas have different melting points. That may mean I tested the US version which is why I got a different result than I was expecting.

Technically there is a source for something that's claimed to be functionally identical - you'll have to pay the premium price though. My goal was to find something readily available at, near or below the price of the original.

Here's what I'm thinking:

• According to older tests, PJ and original lube were functionally identical for melting and spread rate.
• According to the test I did on Friday, PJ, and both of the lubes I have in the pink and red tubes (one of which is still available) melted -below- the temperature at which my (assumed) US tube of lube melted.
• I think that at this point, we know that the "new" singer lube is not synthetic - or if it is, it's formulated to melt at an appropriate temperature when compared with the US tube of original lube - I didn't like seeing the "old" one percolate and boil though - perhaps this is what they meant when they were having trouble with "cold weather" - I wonder if some of the batches were freezing leading to a permanent change to the lube.

As far as I'm concerned, I will use the new Singer lube (with tests to new batches as they come in) until it's no longer available - I also have an email in to the supplier to ask the manufacturer if it's still suitable for use in the motors. In a pinch, I will use Petroleum Jelly and when the Singer Lube is no longer available (or the formula changes to be unsuitable) - I will switch to PJ exclusively.

In the days of cast iron machines, motor lube was probably either along the lines of petroleum jelly or a purified petroleum derived oil emulsified and thickened with soap (made from lye and oil). They should still be available.

As far as the Singer lube goes, there is at least two versions made in recent years. The old style amber, clearish, and kind of grungy looking lube and the white stuff.

The white grease is from that I've read meant for the plastic gears used on modern machines. Weather it will work in motors or not I have no idea at all. I've not tried it in the motors and don't intend to.

Joe

If you look at the original pics I posted- neither is the white stuff. I can't even get my hands on that stuff - my supplier and their supplier has no idea what it is. The only lube I've tested and will use is the stuff I showed. That said, I would test the white and IF it tested ok, I'd use it. I think it might be the white that left the residue on the test video though - which means I wouldn't use it.

I'd believe either of those possibilities. The old stuff has a feeling slightly different than straight PT, but behaves the same. In theory, saponizing wouldn't have to change melt point, or spread rate.

Tammi,

I got the one tube of White stuff from JoAnn fabric in IL several years ago. I haven't purchased any new stuff since.
I'll grab another tube next time I see some to see what's in it.

I'm wondering if the white stuff wasn't perhaps just a different lot of product or some from another manufacturer.

Joe

I really think there has been at least 2 sources of it in recent years. That white lube - I've never seen it before. Obviously it exists - and I think it's caused a lot of confusion. This is why I wanted to test the stuff I was still getting to see what it was like as far as the characteristics we needed. I may try to do some more accurate testing in the coming weeks - if I can figure out how.

If the white stuff feel a bit gritty between the fingers, and not like the very smooth greases, I have assumed it's lithium grease.

Love this discussion, wish I had something definitive to add. The range of greases available in the industrial field is mind-boggling. This is only hearsay since I haven't run any tests like Tammi but...Lubriplate 105 is a thin, smooth, cream colored grease available in small tubes; my dad (chem engineer) swore by it. Calcium based, petroleum-derived, 170F rated, good working penetration at 77F, NLGI 0. About $6 for a 50gm tube (except in Canada of course, hehe). A slightly heavier version is 130-AA.
Not modern synthetic stuff by any means but recommended for plain bearings like used in old sewing machine motors (among MANY other things). Our vintage machines and motors aren't modern or synthetic either.

After a bit more research it seems like the cream or white color in several lubes is due to the inclusion of zinc oxide, an anti-wear ingredient. I'm less enthusiastic about that since it probably leaves some residue that could accumulate. May not be the best thing to have in the wicks. I bet it also contributes to the slightly gritty feeling which you've noticed. I'm more curious about Novalube now (re: post #15).

PhilGrmPa - If you are in the US, either Nova or April's products are likely not as prohibitive to try as they are for me. Once I figure in shipping to Canada and then the exchange on top plus undoubtedly duty - and that's even if I COULD get them across the border ... well let's just say I'm not going to be testing them. I'd be interested if someone could let us know what their melting points are. I have a suspicion but this is a public forum and rules and all. ;)

I keep meaning to take a motor in and hit an electric motor shop but quite frankly Dec and Jan have really been the sh*ts for us and it's just slipped my mind repeatedly. Perhaps I'll put a motor in my bag and hope it prompts me the next time I'm out. That should garner a few questions from DH when he sees it sitting there. :D

ETA: Yeah, anything with zinc oxide in it would be off my list too. Isn't that what you put on your nose on the ski hill to stop it (your nose, not the hill) from burning?

While I'm curious and live near Philly I'm also, shall we say, CHEAP. $10+s/h for 10cc is a non-starter for me, especially since I bet I can find something suitable without 3 YEARS(!?!) of research. I know a few Mech Engineers who'll educate me WHILE they laugh about my newest compulsion. I've got a red&white tube of singer lube that came with the 15-91 I bought for $9 last week. Probably a used up metal tube somewhere too.
See? Why would I forego an entire machine and cabinet in favor of a tube-a-lube?
Altho it WOULD take up less space.

Okay, now I am freaked out. I purchased a tube of Singer lubricant (pink tube) and it was white. Thought the color was strange, but just figured they changed the formula but it was still meant for motors. I used it in my Featherweight motor a few weeks ago. Did I ruin the motor? Do I need to clean it out? Please tell me I didn't ruin my beautiful new baby....

I did the same experiments a few years ago, albeit no toaster oven. I was more concerned with the ability of the lube to migrate out, at room temperature, from the dab that was placed upon paper. This would be similar to the lube crawling from its reservoir up the felt wick and to the bearing. SM motors are seldom run enough to generate much heat, and the capillary action (wicking) of the lube continues even when the Sm is not being used. Lubriplate white greases and lithium greases are composed of oil that is absorbed by a metallic soap. While they have almost no melting point, the oil will wick away from the grease. My tests found that both Singer motor lube and Vaseline melted at around 115 to 120 deg. F., no other greases tested has so low a melting point...I have never seen a sm motor with bad bearings or a scored motor shaft due to lack of lubrication, but then again, I have only messed with a few hundred of them. What I most often correct is excessive end play of the motor shaft. Most grease reservoirs are found bone dry, yet there is no damage to the motor. Additionally, I have never found motor brushes short enough to need replacing. Johnm

I would clean it out. Assuming that you put it in on top of whatever was there, that should be all that's needed. If you cleaned all of the old grease out you may want to or have someone take the motor apart and clean it internally. I wish they'd label those tubes as not for use with motors if in fact they aren't any longer. I don't have any here to test so I can't really offer any further advice on it. :(

I have found the same thing about the spread rate. I think my singer lube in the lead tubes is the one that melts at a higher rate - but you're right - I don't know that I've seen any shafts or bearings damaged even with poor or non-existent lubrication. I have however found machines needing brushes changed. One was right down to the spring, one was past and ruined the commutator, another had brushes at about 1/16".

Well, cost was part of my reason for testing too. ;) Partly because that $10 tube of lube would likely end up being about $25cdn once it arrived in my hands. The only reason I've stopped using the old lead tubes is that every time I seem to touch one, the lube bursts out from the wrong end and there's a heck of a mess everywhere. Though, thinking about it more clearly (and not covered in motor lube) - perhaps I could just squeeze what comes out into a syringe....

[QUOTE=ArchaicArcane;7437718]
I have found the same thing about the spread rate. I think my singer lube in the lead tubes is the one that melts at a higher rate - but you're right - I don't know that I've seen any shafts or bearings damaged even with poor or non-existent lubrication. I have however found machines needing brushes changed. One was right down to the spring, one was past and ruined the commutator, another had brushes at about 1/16".


WOW, now that is using brushes beyond the limit. We should invent a "squeeker" as in disk brakes, to let us know when the brushes are running short, ha, ha. We must not have that much sewing time in Wisconsin, wood to split, lye soap to make, chickens to feed and cows to milk. We might wear out a splitting maul before the motor brushes, ha, ha. I pour melted Vaseline into the disposable vet syringes, and grind the cutting point off of a one inch, #12 hypo needle. I have squeezed the plastic singer tube of lube into grease holes and had the lube puke back out at me from the trapped air in the grease fitting. Plastic syringe works great. Getting cold, gotta put wood in the furnace.
Johnm

Apparently we use em hard and use em up up here in the frozen tundra. ;) I can only imagine the noise the springs were making on the commutator. *shudder* I bought a log splitter last year, totally freed up time to use up a sewing machine.

Yeah the more I'm thinking about it, the more I'm wondering why it didn't occur to me to put that lube in a syringe. Of course, I used up all of my syringes last week - which is probably why I thought of it today. *sigh*

So far (without expert assistance) I've learned that GREASE is basically some kind of OIL held within a "soap". The common soaps are calcium, sodium, and lithium based. The soaps can each be formulated to different hardness levels, rated by NLGI (National Lubricating Grease Institute) from 000(very soft) to 6(very hard; like a bar of, you guessed it, soap). Petroleum jelly is about 2 on that scale (but PJ is not really a grease, it's just greasy). The old, translucent Singer grease is also about 2, maybe 2.5. The degree of hardness is controlled during manufacture by using heavier or lighter "fractions" of petroleum (it's more complicated but that will suffice).
The Melt Point (temperature at which grease changes from semi-solid to liquid) is controlled by the soap base chemical. Lithium greases melt at 350-400F, sodium at 250-300F, calcium at 160-200F. PJ melts at 100-105F. The melt points can also be manipulated (within those ranges) during manufacture.
Old grease often oxidizes and gets harder, particularly if in plastic tubes, but it takes several to many years; the tin or lead tubes don't "breathe" if tightly capped and seams are undamaged but I still think it hardens somewhat given enough decades/centuries ;).
-Phil

I believe you're right Phil. It seems like what the oils are suspended in is what's causing our trouble.

Today, I received an order of Singer Lube and it's the wrong stuff. :(
I received a blue tube - probably updated to look more modern but basically the same stuff Joe has.

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I popped some in the toaster oven to see what it would do.

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Crap.

That residue is bad and potentially the fact that it's spreading faster than the original is bad too. It seems to me it may be less stable and the residue will clog the wicks.

I'm going to spend the next little bit on the phone with a couple of electric motor repair shops and see what they say.

If you ever find something acceptable for the motor let us know. I am doing my best to keep updated on this thread ;)

Alright, so I think I basically got from the electric motor shops what I expected to hear.

Shop #1 suggested a non-detergent oil:
My thoughts on this:

• assuming there are wicks in the grease tubes, this would be OK BUT
  • not all grease tubes have wicks
  • it would have to be repeated fairly often
  • if the wick was already saturated with grease it would need to be replaced first then the oil put in and a person would have to be VERY careful not to over fill and to monitor the wicks and make sure they're not getting dry.

Shop #2 - Suggested Lubriplate 105 assembly grease. This is the same thing that was mentioned earlier in this thread as a very good lubricant. The concern I have is that it contains zinc-oxide as well. https://www.lubriplate.com/PDFs/SDS/...100Series.html This has the potential to clog the wicks - especially if it's what's in the new Singer lube and leaving that yuck on the paper towel. It sure looks right if you see what the ZO powder looks like. It also has a melting point of 170F. Higher but maybe still OK?

Shop #3 - At first he suggested 3in1 oil because that's what the industrial motors use (a commercial version of it but 3in1 oil all the same) but I mentioned that it 1. is a liquid not a solid when cold. 2. dries to cement if let sit. He agreed about its downsides then we discussed the petroleum jelly. The need for a low melting point, thus likely not a synthetic, the fact that it's recommended in other brands of motors, its safety for human use and its very good lubricating properties. He thinks there's nothing wrong with it and can't see why it would be problematic. He also suggested one more shop in a different province who might have a packaged solution or some other suggestions. I will call them in the morning since it was far too late to do it by the time I got off the phone with Shop #3.

So, to reiterate:

• I am NOT advocating the use of 3in1 oil in a motor. At all. Ever.
• An electric motor shop (once they stopped laughing about the size of motor I was asking about ;)) seems to think that petroleum jelly shouldn't be a problem.

Thoughts? Comments?

Additionally, I showed my supplier the new lube and how it looks after a while under low heat (simulating the heat of a motor over time) and they agree that it's not OK. They're going to get in touch with their supplier/manufacturer and ask what's up, so there may be more info coming.

My thoughts are not expert, I don't know much about electrical motors, but for what it's woth: There has to be something better than petroleum jelly. I'm going to look up what the large tub of grease they use at the bike shop here. Its' a kind of general grease really not made for bicycles, but it's just a fraction of the cost in large buckets. It looks very much like the original Singer grease made in 1950, very smooth between the fingers, but I have no idea of it's melting point, petroleum or synthetic. Then again, if petroleum jelly is very good stuff?

The funny part is, in talking with people at these shops - they did agree on one thing - there aren't really any good low temperature greases. That may be in their own electrical related universes, I don't know but it was interesting to hear.

You've mentioned more than once that there has to be something better. What's wrong with PJ?

Bummer. I just ordered this lub online today. Were do I get the reproduction of old lubricant?

Is this good reproduction lubricant? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Singer-Feath...kAAOSwbdpWX1~f

I haven't used it so I can't comment on the quality but the seller also sells a "special screw" that they had "developed" to replace the frequently lost ones for the pinking attachments that's pretty much identical to the one I got from an industrial supply house for pennies.