Stuck Singer 201
 

So I've been heating and oiling for a month or two a 201. Took forever to get the gear wheel off, but still no progress on freeing the needle bar. Any hints?
Been heating with a hairdryer, oiling couple times a day, futility trying to turn using stop motion knob without gears... Part of the issue is that the needlebar is all the way down, and while I've tried using a wooden lever to push up, still no movement. The cold weather has kept me from trying a kerosene soak, pblaster has been the worst I've tried.

Is there any movement at all, even just a tiny bit?

I just freed up a 15-91, I got a screwdriver in one of the screw holes on the needle bar mechanism and one hand on the hand wheel. I used constant even tension on the screwdriver and the hand wheel and it very slowly started to move.

Not in the needle bar, the linkages wobble back and forth, as does the bobbin area.

I would try PB Nutblaster. Just a little will go a long way. Let it sit for 30 minutes and try it. If it's still frozen, give it a little more and wait a day. Put a little more on whenever you think about it.
I got a nut loose using it that had been on a vise since the 1800's.

Have you worked the presser foot bar yet? I did that first using the presser foot raiser lever to slowly raise it with the constant even tension and a screwdriver to push it back down. I did that a few times to get it loosened up. That also gave me an idea of what it would take to get the needle bar to move.

Two months? Has to be the worst case ever. You could try some kind of thin spray can oil, they often work differently than general sewing machine oil. I once turned to Finish Line Ceramic Wet Lube (bicycle oil) and it loosened a screw that had been stuck for (literally) years. I had tried all kinds of oils, but apparently it did it did the trick, and there's no special ingredient there that should loosen rusty screws better than other oils. My main point is; just try a different type of oil or lubricant, and keep at it.

I would also take out the needle, unscrew the needle plate and inspect the bobbin/feed dog area for anything that might be blocking the movement. Some times a bit of force is needed to get things unstuck, so wiggeling the hand wheel now and then is not a bad idea at all. If you can detect which gear, hinge or passage that's frozen up it makes special treatments easier. There's two black caps under the base, each held in place by three screws, take them off and inspect the gears under there if you haven't all ready, there might be something stuck between them.

I once had a machine stuck because of grime or rust in the needle bar shaft, the hole in the cast iron part behind the face plate. There were no visible signs until I started oiling, poking and forcing the movement. Double check with a tooth pick for clogged up oil points, all of them, build up of all kinds of grime, dust and lint are common.

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I've cleaned and removed most crud that I can reach with completely taking apart.. Pressure bar freed and cleaned easily.

Wondering is my can of pb blaster is defective because it's not helped. Used sewing machine oil, airflow, pb blaster. Cleaned again with 90 percent rubbing alcohol, now trying dritz spray sewing lubricant.

Have you tried tapping it with a hammer?

Might be something in the hole the needle bar goes through? Are the oil points on top of the machines unclogged and oil is actually getting in there? I would still keep on oiling and try to detect where the oil actually seeps in and where it stays on the surface, it might be a clue to where it's stuck? It will lock up the needle bar too. It looks fairly clean in there, the shiny metal should polish up very nice.

Gently with a rubber mallet before and after hairdryer heat. Tapping it sideways, as it's all the way down, but hoping to disconnect the rust. Used triflow not airflow.. (Silly autocorrect.)

Thanks for the suggestions, guys, this is driving me nuts. Ordered some Finish Line, thanks for that suggestion, Mickey.

I think I've maybe tapped on only one or two machines and gotten them unstuck. My latest was yesterday. It was a Singer 99. Bobbin area was covered in rust as was the bottom of the machine - big clue. The machine looked good on the upper part. I spent the better part of yesterday trying to free up that machine. First I cleaned up all the rust with Finish Line bike chain lubricant. It is for cleaning up rust as far as I'm concerned. Then I cleaned and oiled the machine multiple times with no movement. I could rock the hand wheel and see slight movement in the needle bar - that told me the problem was unlikely in that area. I spent a lot more time oil in with Tri-flow and rocking the wheel. I could not see anything in the upper part of the mache so blindly kept oiling. I took the hand wheel off, and used a good mechanics glove to help turn it. Just not budging. I suspected the bobbin movement from the start but a lot of times the area I suspect is really not the part that is stuck. I do not like to ever force a machine to move since something else could break, bend or nick. Gently rocking it while oiling, will more often than not, make the machine turn. But you never know so I oiled every place else I could thin might be a friction point. After I was sure everything was well oiled, I decided to try tapping. This time I needed to tap on the part that rocks the bobbin. I tapped a couple times. Rock and tap. Oil from upside down, side ways, front to back. I like to let the oil do the job. I tapped gently and all of a sudden it gave. I put the machine back together and added a hand crank and turned and turned the machine to work the oil into it at the same time cleaning dirty oil out and adding clean oil. Then I cleaned out excess oil. This time it was the little spot under the bobbin holder carrier stuck with rust judging from the ooze that come out of that area once it turned. the 201 I had that was stuck unstuck the instant I pulled the motor. It was a stuck motor. A lot of machines don't get oil in rods and their mechanisms just left of the hand wheel and they get dried up oil stuck or rusted in the places that should move in that area. I've seen rust or dried up oil causing it to freeze behind most of the parts behind the needle bar area. You may need to listen as you rock the machine and feel what might be loose. It may NOT be the needle bar at all that is stuck. I had a machine a very long time ago that I tore apart because I couldn't figure it out. Someone had taken the shuttle off and put it back on incorrectly some how causing the whole thing to freeze. I had to learn a lot about repairs the hard way. Since I am not a really strong person, I like to let the oil work and not get in a hurry to use force.

I do not leave the Finish Line on the machine since it is rather heavy. I clean it off and use a light weight oil. If you do not have a bicycle shop near you to buy Finish Line Wet, you might try cleaning with automatic transmission fluid since it should have a detergent effect, too. Be sure to clean up as you go and use a light oil once you are ready to sew with it. A lot of repair info as well as knowledgeable people have moved to the victoeiun Sweet Shop - see SteveH for a link and correct spelling :shock:

The only Finish Line oil worth going for when it comes to sewing machines is the "Ceramic Wet Lube" version. It's in a bottle with a gold cap, at least last time I bought it. It's a light syntetic oil with teflon, very comparable to Triflow. The "Extreme Wet Lube" and the other bottles I've had from this brand is much thicker and stickier, made to coat metal and last in all kinds of salty and wet conditions. The Ceramic version is actually a very good oil for sewing machines (promise!), and the additives are aimed at reducing fricition and wear, not stand up to harsh conditions. Appart from this; my main suggestion was just to try something different than you already had used. I'm sure you are onto it, and it's all about getting the oil into all the nooks and crannies. I know it's not easy when you can't turn the mechanism at all.

Hey folks,

1. Try Kroil. I have Yet to find a better penetrating oil.
2. I would agree with Miriam. The issue may not be in the Needlebar mechanism at all

Remember these are connected systems. IF you make movement in one area without getting movement in ALL of the connected bits, you will damage something.

My personal method of choice is to take photographs and then pick a part that is a link in the chain and remove it.

You can then see which side of the chain of moving parts is now frozen and concentrate your efforts on that portion

That's rust below the bushing on the needlebar? I think it's as likely a place as any because of that. You've made a really good observation in that everything else wiggles when you jiggle the wheel but there's no movement here. I've also heard good things about Kroil. In fact, I must remind DH to bring some home for me...

Mickey2 - I think I might get the prize for "stuck". My poor Gritzner is still stuck and I got the Facebook "1 year memory" post the other day. She's been here a year and still only a tiny bit of rock in her. :( We gave her a break come fall so she could come inside and she's reassembled and in my bookcase at the moment. I know if I could get the handwheel off, I could get further but it's stuck but good. She's the only machine in the house that doesn't turn and sew.

Miriam, I had a good stuck one yesterday too. Those Rocketeer handwheels/clutches are unreal. I finally had to use a DH! Seriously, I tweaked something in my wrist trying with rubber gloves, and he came in with the rubber mallet and gave it a few taps then used the rubber gloves too and finally got it loose.

SteveH, I might have to get a bottle of Kroil too, if I can find it here. There are lots of stuff I haven't tried, and I've had and still have quite a few rememdies on my shelf. I have noted down Wintergreen essential oil; apparently it unfreezes all kinds of rusted screws and bolts, and I have also noted it's in one of the known spray can oils. Oils in general work well. There was an advice to mix acetone with gear oil, but I had no luck with it.

Tammi; an entire year and still stuck has to be a record, and I hope annf doesn't have to compete with yours ;- )
What type of oils have you used? As I mentioned; some times just switching to something different helps. The explanation mightbe as the first oil gets to do it's work and when something else get't to take over, working slightly differently, things happen. I hope your Gritzner loosens up after next round of oil and wiggeling. In my case machines have unstuck by soaking in oil over night; in one case it took me four days to get a machine running smoothly, repeated applications of oil and turning the hand wheel did the job. It was just dried up oil and grime causing the sluggishness, hard to pin it down to any specific part.

I like Miriam's advice on tilting the machne over, side ways, even up side down. Those horizontal rods under the base can be very hard to get oil into, I'm not even sure there's oil spots officially in the manual, but I have studied them and it looks like there's one metal piece running through an outer one; in other words metal moving against metal, not a solid piece made in one casting. Make sure the oil seeps into the oil points, and in cases like these I oil generously, deliberate over oiling. I like the wooden case with kitchen paper or old rags before I start.

Assuming it is indeed the needle bar that's stuck, how about depositing a drop of evaporust where you suspect it's seized? Let that creep in. You may need to do this a few times depending on how bad it is.

I would not do that ever. Use something with an OIL based detergent not a water base. Can you remove the needle bar? You would have to retime it if you do. I have a Kenmore 15 clone in like new condition. It was frozen up all right. The needle bar shafts don't line up. Something wrong when they made it... Must have been near a holiday in the factory. That gorgeous machine is for parts, sniff. I think I was bragging that I didn't have a 15 parts machine... It could also be a bent needle bar.

I recently managed to un-stick a Singer 99. Both the needle bar and the presser foot bar were stuck. I have had the machine maybe a year, I don't remember. I had worked on it, oiled it up and decided to let it have some time for the oil to work. I decided if I couldn't get it unstuck it would be a parts machine. So I tackled it again. Put tri flow, oil and finally some break free. Still stuck. Finally got the presser foot bar moving by tapping on it. The needle bar was about half way up. Tapped, tapped. Left overnight. Tapped tapped, left over night. Tapped some more, going up, tapped going down. I had made a mark on the bar to see if it was moving. Hey the mark had move a 32 of an inch. Hey a few more taps and it moved 16th. More tapping and finally tapped it clear down, then back up, with taps. At last it was free- applied more oil wiping up the excess and spinning the movement. Oil coming out was orange, yes it was rusty.
How is it now, it is one of the smoothest movements of a 99 I have. Sweet little machine. Next challenge is the motor, bad wires and doesn't move freely. I may just replace the motor. Would put a handcrank on it but it has a solid wheel and the spoke wheel is too thick.

Sorry if I have rambled on a bit, good luck on the sticky problem!

Ethel

What is your spoke wheel off? I've replaced a solid wheel with a spoke wheel. The bobbin winder won't ride real good unless you lose that top screw it pivots on.

I really hope annf doesn't have to compete either. I have a line on some Kroil - at least I know who sells it in town now. That's half the battle.

We've tried tri-flow, fluid film, PB Blaster, SeaFoam's Deep Creep, WD-40 (no decals or finish to worry about), rubber mallet, pleading, begging, bargaining, some really bad language...

She's been laid on her back, tipped onside, hung like a bat...

I found this interesting too:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=59511 A comparison of the torque require to break a nut/bolt loose with several different penetrating oils.

It is very hard to tell exactly what what point a machine will be stuck. It is best to generically oil every single movable friction point. Tammi I believe out of desperation I used break cleaner or xylene to get one unstuck. Those have to be used out doors nowhere near flame. spray some in a can - plastic will go poof - then brush on with a natural art brush. Do not leave metal over night with out re-oiling anything that stuff touches.

The gold you see on that needle bar is more likely dried on old oil not rust. Usually rust doesn't find its way into a joint because there is a protective coating of oil. If you try to force gummed up oiled parts to move you may have so many gummed up parts in other places that are being forced that something will move but it may not be what you expect or desire. You can tell the difference between rust and dried on oil by scraping on it just a little. Rust will be rough. Dried up Oil will feel gummy or oily of course. Oil will dissolve with solvent. Rust will not dissolve with oil or a solvent. It takes an acid like vinegar to dissolve the rust. If an acid is left on a rusted part the part will continue to rust even over night rust will grow. If someone put some kind of stuff to clean off rust down your needle bar then unless it had good coating of oil, you will have rust somewhere and the needle bar will have to come out and be cleaned of rust as will the sleeve it rides in. If you take out the needle bar you will need to reset it and time it. If you pry on the needle bar you could bend the needle bar. If you pry on the needle bar you will very likely have to retime it. I'm sure there is an Igor reading this. Note to Igor, use oil to do your work as much as possible. Use gentle taps and then big force as a last resort.

Tammi, more often than not I see stuck hand wheels on a rocketeer. There is nothing to grip. I've also seen a few where Igor hit it with a hammer and made notches all over the place. I never have the strength to get those off. After I've tried I get DH to do it... He gets a kick out of doing it. One time he tried to free one up for me but I hadn't oiled it up yet and he broke something under the bobbin area. Boy did he have egg on his face.

The reason to use heat is to expand the parts so penetrating oil can get inside to do it's job. Sometimes a hair dryer is not enough.

Miriam gave me a Wizard brand sewing machine that had been exposed to rain and the needle bar end was seized solid.
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NOTHING I could do, nothing I soaked it in, would work to loosen up the needle bar. Everything else freed up.

Finally realizing that the machine was junk as it sat and good for nothing but parts, and that I had nothing to loose, I disconnected the clamp connecting the needle bar to the crank and broke out the propane torch. Then using the direct heat of the flame tip I applied heat to the cast iron housing so it would expand, and soaked it with ATF. After a while of that I began to get rusty oil running down the needle bar under the seized area.
Heat it, (not to the point of melting anything or discoloring the metal, just hot) soaking it, then repeating a few times began to get results. Then I put a screwdriver against the base and pried up against the bottom of the needle bar. Eventually it moved. Once I had the needle bar up I cleaned the rust off of the bar and tapped it down. Cleaned more rust off of it.

That worked. After reassembling it I put the Wizard and all it's pieces in a box about 2 1/2 years ago due to other projects and haven't finished it yet. But just before the move I checked it and the machine is so free it spins easily. It is fixable now.

This was admittedly a worst case scenario, but for your 201 I think you need to clean off all the stuff you've used and get some real heat to the casting around the needle bar so the Tri-Flow or ATF or Kroil or what ever you use can actually get between the needle bar and the cast iron housing. Rust flakes can create a physical lockup when they get between a shaft and it's bore. I think that's what has happened in this case.

Joe

I remember that machine and the place I found it... I was overwhelmed with that one. Out of 62 machines that was one of the worst. There was one fancy Kenmore in worse shape - I left it in that barn... When you store things even in bad conditions a case can prevent a lot of that kind of mess. I don't think it was left in the rain but it was in a big barn with no door so same thing... It was the same barn that I found a Singer 15 blackline all rusted up - it isn't the prettiest but I got it working. The table was a pile of sticks but I saved it for the hardware... Other machines were ok but there was a lot of mold on broken tables - I left them to be burned... I did learn a lot with that many machines to unfreeze or otherwise make work. The other barns were weather tight for the most part. I got the left overs from a giant hoarder yard sale just before the property sale closed. It took two days to haul all those machines. We got 62 machines hauled in our van & I'm thinking we had 30 or 40 tables in there between the two loads. I'm thinking we might have driven out of our way to avoid hills... There were 3 barns full. The machines were on the bottom of the piles and the "good" ones already sold...well so they said... The family didn't know there were sewing machines in there the first year. one family member kept trying to give me old bowling balls...

i was going to mention a torch as well but figured if evaporust was frowned upon, then no way would that fly around here.
A hair dryer is good to losen old grease but not enough to unstick rusted parts.
If two months of oiling hasn't worked, more oil isn't going to work.

And even with a torch, it may need to be tapped or pried on. And with a metal hammer. You need the shock and a rubber mallet won't do it. If you mar up the finish, it can be fixed. I'd even try getting a bar under it and whack the other end down, like how a seesaw works to get it up (if it's not at its highest position)

I've had to get many a rusted parts apart in my time. I've worked on lots of old cars and trucks sitting in pastures for decades. I've had to make tools to get things apart even. At some point you realize the thing is worthless as it sits all locked up and get the guts to get "more persuasive". :D

Sammie1,

I use Evapo-rust a lot. I've never poured it on something like the rusted needle bar though. It might be worth a try. After all, it's job is to dissolve rust. At the time I did the Wizard I didn't have any to try.

Agree with you about the rest.

Joe

I use evapo-o-rust, too I just would not want to make a problem worse. The ATF would be a better choice for a part still on a machine. Heat won't free up rusted parts.

When I got the needle bar off that Kenmore I put a block of wood on the machine and under the needle bar plywood under that to protect the machine. Then I put an old hammer head between and banged on that with a big hammer to lever it up. Once it got up a little, I was able to pull the needle bar out with vice grips. The needle bar was not bent but I tried another one anyway it was visibly the shaft not lining up. When you get it off let us know what you find.

I should mention at this point - the rubber mallet was to introduce vibration to the handwheel bolt that I know is stuck in my case. I don't advocate the use of force under most circumstances. The worst I do is a tap here and and a gentle bump there. A smack to the top of my screwdriver sometimes to convince a screw to let go.

Ugh. Melting plastic is why DH still only buys the "bad" brake cleaner. He used the "safe" stuff on something here that was near a plastic part - I can't recall what - and melted it. It wasn't a plastic lid and it was a costly mistake.

The reason I thought the needlebar was rusted is that it looks darker than any other dried oil on the machine and looks "textured". Of course, I'm only working from a photo and photos do lie.

I got enough grip to tweak something in my wrist yesterday (it's swollen today) but couldn't get enough grip to actually turn anything. I think the owner of this machine was Igor-ette. She'd lost the nose piece, the top cover, there were chunks out of the handwheel, not just chips... I suspect she or Igor had a lot to do with the handwheel being that tight. Once I,.. er DH got it off, there was nothing wrong with the assembly which is why I often see the clutches over-tightened.

Igor, Igora, igoretta its this big family. They might even live near you.
I don't know why that family gets around so much but they do, then they sneak in people's houses and tighten up the 500s and 503s wheels every chance they get. They seem to be able to home in on those machines in a freakish sort of way. It may be a conspiracy.

Just for fun, have you used brake cleaner to vaporize a foam cup?

Most of the people I know use TriFlow, which is a bicycle oil with Teflon in it. Works with mud and grit in bikes. Be careful not to break the levers by putting too much pressure on them. If serious disassembly is required, take lots of pictures and you may need to get help to reassemble, which is no shame. Just be sure they have good experience.

Miriam,

My Mom bought a used (only slightly) car one time --- someone had put something other than brake fluid in the master cylinder. One day, when my Mom was driving (with my infant nephew in the car) the brakes totally failed and her car hit the front entrance of the bank where she was going to make a deposit. There was a lot of joking and laughter about "grandma knocking over the bank!"

Jeanette

Thanks so much for the ideas and theories. I think it is rust, the face plate and pressure bar had a bunch, but I'll wait for the ceramic lube, before I get much harsher, especially since the screws in the linkages aren't letting me unscrew them.

I've cleaned, got the Dremel out, figuring that might vibrate things a bit. And because of that great comparison link that Tammi posted have switched to trying liquid wrench, which seems to leave a foamy residue... Been wiping that off before reapplying.

I don't have a torch, but maybe I could try my heat gun... just concerned since the needle bar is a hollow one that it'll be more likely to break.

Thanks so much for all the posts, it's been getting past the point where I've been wondering if I was missing something obvious...

I'm positive they live near me! In fact, one (or more of them) is right down the street by my estimation. ;) I'm convinced the 503 and 500 machines give off some sort of light that only they can see.

Uh,.. no, I don't think I've ever tried to vaporize anything on purpose. I'll tell DH though, I'm sure it will make him giggle like a maniac, or whatever the "manly" equivalent of that is. ;)

For screws like the one holding the needlebar that won't budge - I'm going to make some people cringe here, ready? ;) - stand the machine on its handwheel and let the liquid wrench soak right into where the screws are seated instead of having it drip down the needlebar. Marination vs rotisserie style. ;) If you do this though - prop and brace it really well so it can't fall over - especially if you have furry or little "hands" around.

That said, I don't know how much loosening the linkages will help. Perhaps see if you can loosen the set screw for the needlbar bushing as well though, since you might have to take it out to remove rust anyway.

I think a heat gun should be fine if used judiciously. What I remember reading - maybe in that thread I posted - is heat is good - color change (i.e. red hot) is not so good. I don't think a heat gun will do that sort of heat.

I don't think you're missing anything obvious. Some of them really are this tough to get moving again. It didn't seize in a day, sometimes you won't get it loose in a day either.

What about those frost sprays? I think they work in much the same way as heat; by making the metal shrink and expand just enough for parts to parts break free. Alternating with a hair drying and a freeze spray is one of those things that can work wonders too.

That garage thread I posted talked about a couple of those. About the same result - some loved it, thought it was the best thing ever, some had no luck. Of course it all comes down to how stubborn your bolt or whatever is too. And of course another person brought up a good point there too - usually whatever you used last gets all the credit but it might not have been the last one, it could be the first one that finally seeped far enough in.

I've had a couple machines that were frozen, and nothing we tried worked. So we figured it wouldn't hurt to try something crazy. We tried Dawn dish soap, and it worked. Had to do some serious swabbing with Q-tips afterwards.

Are you sure the needle bar isn't bent?