ArchaicArcane

OK, I think you'll like this thread then, Sheila
http://www.quiltingboard.com/vintage...t204075-2.html

We talked about the CS ability and the plates and the bobbin case. The plate is 503599, the case is 503602
I sincerely doubt that the timing issues are really that common. It's all solid metal gears down there, it should be hard to jump a tooth. My first 431 had been interfered with before I got it, the second,.. well, luck of the draw maybe. That said, timing isn't hard to set, just sort of a pain if you want to use the machine immediately.

I had 3 naps today, 1 of them planned, one was just a short one before bed. I've forgotten how good it can feel to have a quick nap during the day though. The unplanned one was when kitty decided it was nap time and I was joining her. I was lost. I usually have to wait til both kitties are napping before I can read or sew. Or sometimes I can get a little time in while they eat... for exactly the reasons you mention. I can't wait to see what they do with this new machine, now that it's set up.

chrisfrance

Hi Miriam....thanks for opening yours...this is my 411G....is mine ready to take a belt for using on the treadle? I was expecting a groove.

plume

Hello Miriam, Sheluma, and Tammi,

I meant to post those drawers & accessory case photos for you earlier, but I've been busy w/ work. Sheluma, the case is actually made from plastic, not sure it shows on the pictures.

In the meantime, I also sewed my first pillow! (I'm not showing the curtain I did — aaaargh. Too short. Must be my dog's fault, lol: as soon as I lay down fabric to cut it, boom, he lies down on it & falls asleep, just like that! I then move on to something else, not wanting to disturb him, jeeez. He should hang out w/ your cats, Tammi.)

I've had some problems w/ tension, read all about it, tried many things, and now I'm waiting for good quality thread I bought online, and won't mess w/ the machine anymore until I try the thread.

Tammi, you mentioned you might have a needle clamp for me? That would be amazing! Is there any way I could also purchase more bobbins from you, if you have them? (I saw some on ebay, but if you're a reseller, I'd prefer to buy them from you).

Have a great week-end!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]426029[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]426032[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]426030[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]426031[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]426034[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]426033[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]426035[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]426036[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]426037[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]426038[/ATTACH]

miriam

I would be over the moon... The tension needs to be rebuilt. I wish I could reach into my computer screen, take it off and clean it for you. I like to clean up the springs and the disks. Everything else gets clean, too but those seem to get really gunky. Some rubbing alcohol or some nail polish remover will clean the gunk off those parts. The painted parts just need regular cleaning with something that won't take off paint or finish. Then put it all back together. You will need to find a manual for your machine or a service manual so you can see how it goes. The best help is in this manual: http://www.tfsr.org/pub/technical_in...echanism_2.pdf The closest is going to be the Modern 201 - however there are differences. You will need to pay close attention when you take it apart. Especially the end pieces. Put them in order the way you take it apart and the side toward you up as you go. Take pictures. Clean as you put back. Then if you test it and it doesn't work you may need to take it part way back apart and tighten or loosen the end piece then put it all back. I doubt if that makes any sense. Tammi is much better at explaining things.

ArchaicArcane

Ha! My cats would put the run on him. Our dog ( a shepherd husky cross) is scared of them, and will whine and cry if there's a cat between her and me. She'll walk around the whole house to avoid one. The funny part is, it's the odd swipe (and they have soft paws, so it's not like it would "hurt") and mostly hissing. I think she met a meaner cat prior to us getting her when she was a year old.

I'm so sorry I forgot to look for the clamp for you. I knew I was forgetting something and just couldn't put my finger on it. The needle clamp part number you're looking for is 172223, I don't have one here, but Richard (souseandsew) has one on Bonanza. I've dealt with him. He's good, if a little eccentric. He will also have class 66 bobbins for you too BUT, if you can get this stuff on your side of the Atlantic, it will cost you way less! It's going to cost you way too much for shipping. Helen Howes might be able to help you. Tell her you'd like vintage bobbins, and that needle clamp. http://www.helenhowes-sewingmachines.co.uk/index.html Worst case scenario, I have some things to order from Richard and I can order that and send you bobbins, but I think your money is better spent if you can get the stuff "over there". Canadian shipping to anywhere is just exorbitant.

I remember you mentioned that you're new to sewing, right? Before you disassemble the machine's upper tension, just see what it's current state is.

http://www.archaicarcane.com/fragile...-equal-stress/
http://www.archaicarcane.com/bobbin-...obbin-tension/

I can use almost any thread in my machines (all the ones I've tried have worked, but I didn't like the pre-wound bobbins my supplier sent, the thread kept breaking.), even the junkiest oldest thread I can find - what's wound on the bobbins of the vintage machines I buy - I was using that for practicing my FMQ (and emptying the bobbins at the same time)

Sheluma

Your pooch is sooo cute! Try laying out a small piece of fabric that you don't want to cut ("decoy" fabric), wait for him to lie down on that, then lay out your real fabric. Congrats on your first pillow! That cabinet is just the nicest I've ever seen. And you have the original brochure for it. Over the moon is right (as Miriam said). Sorry you're having tension problems -- I'll let the experts help you on that. I suppose you've already checked for lint and thread bits. I sometimes clean the discs by taking a lint-free cloth, putting alcohol on it, and inserting it between the discs and moving it back and forth.

plume

Thanks Sheluma for your kind words. And thanks for the laugh too — decoy fabric, I love that!
And Miriam, I wish you could indeed reach out from your computer... I like dissembling, reading all about the mechanics of the old singers, learning so much every day! I do enjoy it a lot. But now I'm starting to get desperate. A constantly perfect stitch feels so close, yet so far. Your manual helped a lot too, along w/ Tammi's website.
Tammi, thanks so much for the UK link. I'll contact Helen Howes asap for the needle clamp! Also, the thread quality info is great, along with the tip about giving it a gentle tug upwards between the tension discs.

I think I now know enough about tension to be able to explain what's happening in my case:

What I did since I got the machine:
- Cleaned the bobbin area, took tons of lint, thread, and hair out from deep under.
- Took the bobbin case out and adjusted it as explained here (Tammi, that was before I got your links):
http://www.treadleon.net/sewingmachi...djustment.html
- Disassembled the upper tension according to Miriam's manual. It was all clean but at least I fixed the dial misalignment I had.
Result:
I'm testing w/ several threads of unknown origins, making sure to put the same on top & on the bottom, on 2 layers of an old, but nice quality/soft, cotton pillow case, and w/ a #80 needle (I don't have a #90, I do have #100 though...).
--> I get a perfect or near perfect stitch ONLY when I turn the dial up to 9!!!
Tammi, what confuses me most, is that at the same time, when I put the dial at 1 or 1.5, the needle deflects about 1/16″ (http://www.archaicarcane.com/fragile...-equal-stress/).
What I tried:
- If I lower both tensions, it becomes slightly OK around 6 (on the top tension) only if I completely unscrew the bottom bobbin. Not good, right? Also, in this case, the stitch quality changes dramatically according to the machine speed.
- If I tighten the tension on the dial during its assembly, when I put it on 0 afterwards, there's way too much tension already, past Tammi's needle deflection point.
What I didn't do:
- Clean & oil any other part... They look clean & oiled already, and... lazy me in (in)action here.
- Change the tension spring. I'm having small doubts about it:
Natural position: 10 o'clock.
If I push it down to 9 o'clock, it springs back to 10 o'clock.
If I push it up to 12 o'clock, it sometimes stays on 11 o'clock.

Help?

plume

PS: Dogs think they're human. Cats think they're god.

ArchaicArcane

The reason I use a 90, is that I know what it will do. An 80 will deflect faster, because the metal is thinner, easier to bend. Same thing with the 100, it will deflect later.

I feel like you have a bunch of tiny things out of whack.
I prefer my bobbin cases to be a smidgen looser than they say. I usually loosen the spring screw until it starts to unwind slowly, then stops by itself without having to give the thread a jerk. For me, that seems to lead to a more consistent result.

I think there's a chance the thread is mismatched to the needle. A known 50wt thread will possibly be able to boss an 80 needle around a little more than it would a 90 (make it deflect faster) You would also have a tendency to see more thread shredding with this combo in use.

The numbers on the dial are 100% dependent on assembly. I think this is your major stumbling block at the moment. I think the tensioner is still mis-assembled, but only slightly.

I've been avoiding putting up a tutorial about how to diassemble the top tensions, because of 2 things: 1. there's the TFSR site, though these tensioners are a little different, and
2. If I put it up, I'm concerned that I may not have the time to support all of the people who could have trouble putting it back together.

Here's the gotcha about the way the 411, 431, 401, 500 tensioners are built:

You want to adjust the tension to make sense -before- you put the number dial on. It's counter intuitive, but you would adjust the tension to have the ever so slightest perceptible drag on the thread and then put the "0" on the knob there, and put the remaining 2 pieces on to hold the number dial there. Gee, I hope that makes sense.

I think you'll find that if you're loosening the top and bottom tensions so much that the stitches look "OK" but the bobbin tension screw is almost out, that the stitches may look OK top and bottom, but if you separate the pieces of fabric, the stitches will gap. Not OK.

OK, the tension spring should drop to about 6 oClock when it's not resting on the little uh,... rest (or caught on the screw at about 7 or 8 Oclock)

You will also benefit from this Service Manual: http://parts.singerco.com/IPsvcManuals/306W25.pdf

It's for the 401 (starting at page 125, but the first 79 pages are also relevant which is why I always post this link, and not the shorter one a lot of people post from the Slant Singer Yahoo group), but fundamentally, -most- of your machine is the same, not quite all though, so use some caution when things look a little different.

Page 132 addresses the tension spring and thread tension.

Let us know how you make out with it, and what you find. Tension is relatively "Easy" to fix, when you know what the symptoms are.

ArchaicArcane

My oldest kitty knows she's the queen. The other one is fine with the position of Court Jester.