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Thread: Strange machine-need help threading

  1. #1
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    Question Strange machine-need help threading

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    I bought this machine from a tip shop, I am trying to rescue it and give it a loving home...I spent about 6 hours getting her spinning and moving freely and I even tracked down the right needles on the internt...but I just cannot for the life of me work out how to thread the bobbin...I think this is similar to a Baer & Rempel Phoenix model MB...but it also is branded with a Wertheim name as well..

    I have searched hi and low for info on how to thread this particular model but I just can't find anything:-(


    p.s she sure is a rough one!

    Thanks so much

    Allison (Tasmania)
    Last edited by tasallison; 04-04-2013 at 07:12 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member frudemoo's Avatar
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    I bought this machine from a tip shop, I am trying to rescue it and give it a loving home...I spent about 6 hours getting her spinning and moving freely and I even tracked down the right needles on the internt...but I just cannot for the life of me work out how to thread the bobbin...I think this is similar to a Baer & Rempel Phoenix model MB...but it also is branded with a Wertheim name as well..

    I have searched hi and low for info on how to thread this particular model but I just can't find anything:-(


    p.s she sure is a rough one!

    Thanks so much

    Allison (Tasmania)
    Hi Allison

    Unfortunately, I can't help (I don't think) ... but when I saw this topic I thought, "I wonder if it's a Phoenix?".... and sure enough!! I am desperately searching for a Phoenix buddy (and how amazing to find an Aussie one, too!) as I rescued a Kl.250 from a junkyard and it is absolutely beautiful, but I can't get it working and I don't know why. Can't find a manual in Australia but I can give you my best tips: there are images of machines like yours in the Needlebar library (will check and see if they're threaded, but probably not) and you MAY be able to get a lead the way I've been trying, which is to search online in German as there are many more of these machines in Germany. Search for "Phoenix Nahmaschine" or even "Phönix" as some people use the German spelling of Phoenix - you may have better luck that way. ...and I'll be sure to let you know if I ever come across information regarding your machine while I'm searching for info about mine
    Best of luck! I have the most beautiful fantasy that my 250 will be my favourite machine once I get it going
    Cheers,
    Amelia
    Last edited by frudemoo; 04-06-2013 at 04:17 AM. Reason: to fix quote

  3. #3
    Senior Member frudemoo's Avatar
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  4. #4
    Senior Member frudemoo's Avatar
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    You could get the accessories tin to spur you on? It's very cool http://www.ebay.de/itm/alte-Blechdos...ht_4898wt_1228

  5. #5
    Senior Member frudemoo's Avatar
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    Here is another diagram of threading and bobbin & case. Sorry if none of this is helping, but it's fascinating to me. http://www.ebay.de/itm/Nahmaschine-P...ht_2385wt_1144

  6. #6
    Senior Member frudemoo's Avatar
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    Just jumped onto Needlebar and it looks like you have a Klasse M machine http://needlebar.org/main~nb/makers/...ixm/index.html which is absolutely beautiful, isn't it? 1902-1918 all the info given is: "Medium type, rotary hook without bobbin holder, unequal thread regulator" but you can almost see the thread path from the diagram. Hope this helps.
    If you're searching German sites for a manual, the German word is "bedienungsanleitung".
    Hope this helps!
    Last edited by frudemoo; 04-06-2013 at 05:15 AM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member frudemoo's Avatar
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    Not sure if you can contact people through Picasa, but this is interesting http://picasaweb.google.com/10748438...66593723790450

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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by frudemoo View Post
    Not sure if you can contact people through Picasa, but this is interesting http://picasaweb.google.com/10748438...66593723790450


    Hey nice to hear from you! Sorry for the slow reply :-)

    Thanks so much for the info! I've had a look at the ebay poster and that would definately give me enough info to thread the bobbin...it's just that tiny bit too blurry but i'll give it a go.

    I tried to sign up at needlebar but the mod got all antsy and decided not to allow me access. I manage to thread the top thread ok...yay! and now I'm just trying to work out the bobbin still...i'm wondering if the bobbin cas is meant to actually come out...because so far i can only get the bobbin itself out. the top thread is just not picking up the thread from the bobbin and after one rotation is all tangled.

    I'd love to see your 250, it probably will be your favourity machine after you get it going...i am so frustrated about mine because i thought it'd be a breeze once i found the right needle..


    thanks so much for your help :-)

    Allison

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    Name:  threading .jpg
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Size:  149.3 KBthreading the top thread.

  10. #10
    Senior Member frudemoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tasallison View Post
    Hey nice to hear from you! Sorry for the slow reply :-)

    Thanks so much for the info! I've had a look at the ebay poster and that would definately give me enough info to thread the bobbin...it's just that tiny bit too blurry but i'll give it a go.

    I tried to sign up at needlebar but the mod got all antsy and decided not to allow me access. I manage to thread the top thread ok...yay! and now I'm just trying to work out the bobbin still...i'm wondering if the bobbin cas is meant to actually come out...because so far i can only get the bobbin itself out. the top thread is just not picking up the thread from the bobbin and after one rotation is all tangled.

    I'd love to see your 250, it probably will be your favourity machine after you get it going...i am so frustrated about mine because i thought it'd be a breeze once i found the right needle..


    thanks so much for your help :-)

    Allison
    How's it all going Allison? I just found this listing on ebay.de - looks interesting (and old) - I thought of you and your machine. I've now got TWO Phoenix machines... The 250 and a 283F. Plenty to fiddle around with. Still neither of them are sewing but I'm still hopeful. The needle thing is very annoying but I've had lots of good suggestions that point to a universal needle being fine. Failing that, the manuals for the more recent ones specify system 1738 (round shank) which is a standard industrial needle. The 283F needs rewiring so I'm not up to experimenting with it yet. Be good to hear from you

  11. #11
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    Question picture heavy! weird bobbin case

    Quote Originally Posted by tasallison View Post
    Hey nice to hear from you! Sorry for the slow reply :-)

    Thanks so much for the info! I've had a look at the ebay poster and that would definately give me enough info to thread the bobbin...it's just that tiny bit too blurry but i'll give it a go.

    I tried to sign up at needlebar but the mod got all antsy and decided not to allow me access. I manage to thread the top thread ok...yay! and now I'm just trying to work out the bobbin still...i'm wondering if the bobbin cas is meant to actually come out...because so far i can only get the bobbin itself out. the top thread is just not picking up the thread from the bobbin and after one rotation is all tangled.

    I'd love to see your 250, it probably will be your favourity machine after you get it going...i am so frustrated about mine because i thought it'd be a breeze once i found the right needle..


    thanks so much for your help :-)

    Allison

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  12. #12
    Power Poster miriam's Avatar
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    As usual it is a well made Phoenix. It looks a lot like a Wheeler and Wilson but yet it is not. You might get some ideas from looking at a manual from one though. I'm a needlebar reject, too. I understand if you can get on they have all kinds of wonderful stuff...

    If you hold down your control key and then hit plus a few times you can enlarge the pictures and look more closely. To get it to go back small hold down control and hit minus. If you get it too big it gets blurry. Anyway I did that on the Ebay ad - it was the only link that worked for me. I would be looking that bobbin case over for channels and holes. Then see where the thread wants to go. It is no doubt something simple but will work well.
    Last edited by miriam; 08-28-2013 at 01:58 AM.
    NEVER let a sewing machine know you are in a hurry.
    good mothers let you lick the beaters - great mothers turn it off first

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    Power Poster miriam's Avatar
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    http://www.quiltingboard.com/vintage...a-t228210.html
    You might see if Glenn knows anything about the Phoenix he spent some time in Germany and he knows older machines.
    NEVER let a sewing machine know you are in a hurry.
    good mothers let you lick the beaters - great mothers turn it off first

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    Hi, I recently found this information on the Phoenix sewing machine, thank you so much! This is the only information that I have found on the internet. Just wondering if you have got it going yet? What needle system? How to thread the bobbin case and also just how heavy duty the machine is? I have exactly the same machine although mine is branded Wertheim, which is exactly the same as Phoenix model M. Thanks!

  15. #15
    Super Member SteveH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seeker of Info View Post
    Hi, I recently found this information on the Phoenix sewing machine, thank you so much! This is the only information that I have found on the internet. Just wondering if you have got it going yet? What needle system? How to thread the bobbin case and also just how heavy duty the machine is? I have exactly the same machine although mine is branded Wertheim, which is exactly the same as Phoenix model M. Thanks!
    Welcome the the board!

    I probably can't help ya, My Phoenix (Faulkes) is a Model F. MUCH earlier. (However, it is like a W&W face [including shuttle carrier, shuttle cover, bobbin etc] on a Singer butt..) Thread about it here

  16. #16
    Power Poster miriam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seeker of Info View Post
    Hi, I recently found this information on the Phoenix sewing machine, thank you so much! This is the only information that I have found on the internet. Just wondering if you have got it going yet? What needle system? How to thread the bobbin case and also just how heavy duty the machine is? I have exactly the same machine although mine is branded Wertheim, which is exactly the same as Phoenix model M. Thanks!
    The one I had used regular needles with a round shank. Very doable. It is a reasonably heavy machine but why would you use one for sewing canvas or leather when you can just use a clone for that? I think I've posted other info on Phoenix on QB in the past. There is an "advanced search" box in the upper right of your screen.
    NEVER let a sewing machine know you are in a hurry.
    good mothers let you lick the beaters - great mothers turn it off first

  17. #17
    Super Member oldsewnsew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miriam View Post
    ...There is an "advanced search" box in the upper right of your screen.
    Duh, jeez, I feel like such a dummy at times, why did I never notice that.
    Jim

    "What do you mean worrying doesn't help? Everything I ever worried about...never happened!"
    quote by __________ I forget who.

  18. #18
    Power Poster miriam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldsewnsew View Post
    Duh, jeez, I feel like such a dummy at times, why did I never notice that.
    Just spend a little time exploring this whole site - there is a lot...
    NEVER let a sewing machine know you are in a hurry.
    good mothers let you lick the beaters - great mothers turn it off first

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