Had a scare this morning.
04-09-2011, 03:24 PM
#11
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Emmitsburg, MD
Posts: 1,599
You can't let Andy be afraid like this - you both need to get over it. Leaving Angel aside for the moment you need to stop acting fearful, and make Andy face his fears as well. Don't pet and coddle him when he's scared; all you're doing is reinforcing the fact that he should be terrified of his environment. You have to show him confidence and that you are in control, so he realizes he does not need to live in fear. Get him on a leash and down that side of the deck, confidently and without babying him. Anything else is harmful to him, and in the long run to you both.
The fact is no one was hurt. Did you SEE Angel attack Andy? Did you see any of the behaviors of either dog before the altercation? Any dog can tussle with any other dog, given enough provocation or insecurity; that's just how they handle conflict sometimes, especially if there is no clear leader in the house (which should have been you). If Angel or Andy had meant to hurt the other, they would have.
That said, don't leave out the possibility that Andy caused the problem, whether by his behavior toward Angel or by direct attack. That does not mean bringing Angel back into the house if you're afraid of her (that would be way worse for ALL of you), but it may mean some extra work with Andy so he knows a) you are in charge, and b) that behavior is not tolerated by ANY member of the household.
Take some deep breaths, get calmed down and then take Andy for that walk through his fears. He won't live in the past if you don't.
The fact is no one was hurt. Did you SEE Angel attack Andy? Did you see any of the behaviors of either dog before the altercation? Any dog can tussle with any other dog, given enough provocation or insecurity; that's just how they handle conflict sometimes, especially if there is no clear leader in the house (which should have been you). If Angel or Andy had meant to hurt the other, they would have.
That said, don't leave out the possibility that Andy caused the problem, whether by his behavior toward Angel or by direct attack. That does not mean bringing Angel back into the house if you're afraid of her (that would be way worse for ALL of you), but it may mean some extra work with Andy so he knows a) you are in charge, and b) that behavior is not tolerated by ANY member of the household.
Take some deep breaths, get calmed down and then take Andy for that walk through his fears. He won't live in the past if you don't.
04-09-2011, 03:52 PM
#12
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Barnesville GA
Posts: 3,181
Originally Posted by JulieR
You can't let Andy be afraid like this - you both need to get over it. Leaving Angel aside for the moment you need to stop acting fearful, and make Andy face his fears as well. Don't pet and coddle him when he's scared; all you're doing is reinforcing the fact that he should be terrified of his environment. You have to show him confidence and that you are in control, so he realizes he does not need to live in fear. Get him on a leash and down that side of the deck, confidently and without babying him. Anything else is harmful to him, and in the long run to you both.
The fact is no one was hurt. Did you SEE Angel attack Andy? Did you see any of the behaviors of either dog before the altercation? Any dog can tussle with any other dog, given enough provocation or insecurity; that's just how they handle conflict sometimes, especially if there is no clear leader in the house (which should have been you). If Angel or Andy had meant to hurt the other, they would have.
That said, don't leave out the possibility that Andy caused the problem, whether by his behavior toward Angel or by direct attack. That does not mean bringing Angel back into the house if you're afraid of her (that would be way worse for ALL of you), but it may mean some extra work with Andy so he knows a) you are in charge, and b) that behavior is not tolerated by ANY member of the household.
Take some deep breaths, get calmed down and then take Andy for that walk through his fears. He won't live in the past if you don't.
The fact is no one was hurt. Did you SEE Angel attack Andy? Did you see any of the behaviors of either dog before the altercation? Any dog can tussle with any other dog, given enough provocation or insecurity; that's just how they handle conflict sometimes, especially if there is no clear leader in the house (which should have been you). If Angel or Andy had meant to hurt the other, they would have.
That said, don't leave out the possibility that Andy caused the problem, whether by his behavior toward Angel or by direct attack. That does not mean bringing Angel back into the house if you're afraid of her (that would be way worse for ALL of you), but it may mean some extra work with Andy so he knows a) you are in charge, and b) that behavior is not tolerated by ANY member of the household.
Take some deep breaths, get calmed down and then take Andy for that walk through his fears. He won't live in the past if you don't.
There was NO warning at all. He and Angel have coexisted for a couple of weeks now. With no problem. The only thing Andy may have done is barked at her to get her nose out of his bum since she liked to follow him around and keep it there even when he was peeing.
This is not by far the first foster I have had. In 8 years I have seen a lot come and go. In the 4 years I have had Andy he has seen many of all ages and sizes. The most he ever does is give a warning bark to back up. If that is what he did an attack is not an appropriate response. I am not afraid of Angel although she has nipped me a couple of time. She didn't like her feet or ears bothered with which had allergic reactions and an infection respectively . I really thought with time I could work with her and get her straightened out. I was making progress. I could actually slide my hands down her legs and pick her feet up for a second or two. I am the leader in my house. Andy and I went through stuff when I got him. Angel also was being trained Nothing in Life is Free.
If I hadn't been there within seconds Andy could have been hurt he is 13lbs she is 30 no question who would have won.
04-09-2011, 04:05 PM
#13
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Emmitsburg, MD
Posts: 1,599
Originally Posted by damaquilts
Andy has already been down that side of the deck since I posted that. Andy did not cause it and I saw Andy on the ground with her teeth on his throat. Believe me it was not playing. Andy wouldn't allow coddling, not at all that type of personality. Believe me. He will slowly get over his fear. I know this. I am calmed down it has been some hours. I plan on taking him as soon as I can to Petsmart and letting him be around other dogs in a controlled manner.
There was NO warning at all. He and Angel have coexisted for a couple of weeks now. With no problem. The only thing Andy may have done is barked at her to get her nose out of his bum since she liked to follow him around and keep it there even when he was peeing.
This is not by far the first foster I have had. In 8 years I have seen a lot come and go. In the 4 years I have had Andy he has seen many of all ages and sizes. The most he ever does is give a warning bark to back up. If that is what he did an attack is not an appropriate response. I am not afraid of Angel although she has nipped me a couple of time. She didn't like her feet or ears bothered with which had allergic reactions and an infection respectively . I really thought with time I could work with her and get her straightened out. I was making progress. I could actually slide my hands down her legs and pick her feet up for a second or two. I am the leader in my house. Andy and I went through stuff when I got him. Angel also was being trained Nothing in Life is Free.
If I hadn't been there within seconds Andy could have been hurt he is 13lbs she is 30 no question who would have won.
There was NO warning at all. He and Angel have coexisted for a couple of weeks now. With no problem. The only thing Andy may have done is barked at her to get her nose out of his bum since she liked to follow him around and keep it there even when he was peeing.
This is not by far the first foster I have had. In 8 years I have seen a lot come and go. In the 4 years I have had Andy he has seen many of all ages and sizes. The most he ever does is give a warning bark to back up. If that is what he did an attack is not an appropriate response. I am not afraid of Angel although she has nipped me a couple of time. She didn't like her feet or ears bothered with which had allergic reactions and an infection respectively . I really thought with time I could work with her and get her straightened out. I was making progress. I could actually slide my hands down her legs and pick her feet up for a second or two. I am the leader in my house. Andy and I went through stuff when I got him. Angel also was being trained Nothing in Life is Free.
If I hadn't been there within seconds Andy could have been hurt he is 13lbs she is 30 no question who would have won.
There are always, always warning signs. Some dogs have very specific triggers for this type of behavior, and maybe your household just hadn't experienced the trigger situation since Angel came in. Or maybe Andy was overexcited and Angel wanted to calm him down, or that trigger made Angel unstable. Whatever the case, Angel did not see you as the leader in your home. That's a tough thing to swallow, but again, I'm not saying anything you don't already know.
I've been, and not been, the leader in my own home and elsewhere. I've broken up dog fights that were just about controlling behaviors, and I've broken up fights that were about inflicting pain on or seriously injuring each other (not in my home or with my dogs, fortunately). How we handle these situations is more important than the events themselves. It's all one giant learning experience.
So...chamomile tea and a little chocolate for you :) And good on you for fostering, especially dogs that need help that most people don't know how to give!
04-09-2011, 04:14 PM
#14
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Knot Merrill, Southern Indiana
Posts: 5,781
My best for a speedy recovery, both physical and mental for Andy (and you!)
I took in a foster which I knew was a dog out of a litter that an aquaintance had bred. Normally in pure-bred rescue we contact the breeder when a dog of their breeding is found in a shelter and request that they take responsibility. I did contact the breeder, but I agreed to foster this bitch because the breeder was in the middle of moving to a new home. The bitch was kind of whacky to begin with, had spent her whole life tied to a chain in the yard so socialization was minimal at best, manners were worse. I had her a few weeks in the house with my other dogs (I had 4 of my own at the time). One night there was a thunderstorm and two of my dogs were very fearful of T-storms and were both under my feet at my computer desk shaking and whining. The foster was also afraid of T-storms and tried to get a spot there as well. I'm still not sure who started what, but the foster and one of my bitches got into a fight (and two bitches fighting is the worst!). My other dogs scattered (thankfully), I used my keyboard (!) to insert between their muzzles to get them apart, then was able to use voice alone to shoo one of the dogs out of the room to separate them. The foster was fine, but my bitch had a really bad torn ear (looked like it was fileted!) and she had to go to the vet ... at midnight ... on a Sunday ... Easter Sunday!! Needless to say that little trip cost me a pretty penny.
After that I contacted the breeder and said "I hope your moved in because you've got another dog coming". To her credit she took her back but I learned later that she had the foster euthanized. I found out because the vet she used to euthanize her called ME and asked me why I DUMPED the dog on her door step! Not only did I not "dump" the dog, the breeder met me 1/2 way and drove her home in her vehicle. I even told the vet to contact MY vet and verify that I had vet checked and vaccinated her - why would I go through that expense if I was going to "dump" her. Needless to say not only do I not speak to this breeder anymore, I also put the word out to fellow breeders so she was never able to purchase a Kuvasz again. To this day we don't speak when we see each other. If she asks me the time of day or something benign, I'll be civil to her but I won't let her back in my life or my breed if I can help it.
I don't take kindly to breeders who will not take care of their puppies for life.
I took in a foster which I knew was a dog out of a litter that an aquaintance had bred. Normally in pure-bred rescue we contact the breeder when a dog of their breeding is found in a shelter and request that they take responsibility. I did contact the breeder, but I agreed to foster this bitch because the breeder was in the middle of moving to a new home. The bitch was kind of whacky to begin with, had spent her whole life tied to a chain in the yard so socialization was minimal at best, manners were worse. I had her a few weeks in the house with my other dogs (I had 4 of my own at the time). One night there was a thunderstorm and two of my dogs were very fearful of T-storms and were both under my feet at my computer desk shaking and whining. The foster was also afraid of T-storms and tried to get a spot there as well. I'm still not sure who started what, but the foster and one of my bitches got into a fight (and two bitches fighting is the worst!). My other dogs scattered (thankfully), I used my keyboard (!) to insert between their muzzles to get them apart, then was able to use voice alone to shoo one of the dogs out of the room to separate them. The foster was fine, but my bitch had a really bad torn ear (looked like it was fileted!) and she had to go to the vet ... at midnight ... on a Sunday ... Easter Sunday!! Needless to say that little trip cost me a pretty penny.
After that I contacted the breeder and said "I hope your moved in because you've got another dog coming". To her credit she took her back but I learned later that she had the foster euthanized. I found out because the vet she used to euthanize her called ME and asked me why I DUMPED the dog on her door step! Not only did I not "dump" the dog, the breeder met me 1/2 way and drove her home in her vehicle. I even told the vet to contact MY vet and verify that I had vet checked and vaccinated her - why would I go through that expense if I was going to "dump" her. Needless to say not only do I not speak to this breeder anymore, I also put the word out to fellow breeders so she was never able to purchase a Kuvasz again. To this day we don't speak when we see each other. If she asks me the time of day or something benign, I'll be civil to her but I won't let her back in my life or my breed if I can help it.
I don't take kindly to breeders who will not take care of their puppies for life.
04-09-2011, 04:19 PM
#15
Super Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Emmitsburg, MD
Posts: 1,599
Originally Posted by JulieR
I never said they were playing - they most certainly weren't. But if Angel had wanted to harm Andy she would have. It sounds to me like you have enough experience with this to know that already; now you just have to remind yourself and breathe!
There are always, always warning signs. Some dogs have very specific triggers for this type of behavior, and maybe your household just hadn't experienced the trigger situation since Angel came in. Or maybe Andy was overexcited and Angel wanted to calm him down, or that trigger made Angel unstable. Whatever the case, Angel did not see you as the leader in your home. That's a tough thing to swallow, but again, I'm not saying anything you don't already know.
I've been, and not been, the leader in my own home and elsewhere. I've broken up dog fights that were just about controlling behaviors, and I've broken up fights that were about inflicting pain on or seriously injuring each other (not in my home or with my dogs, fortunately). How we handle these situations is more important than the events themselves. It's all one giant learning experience.
So...chamomile tea and a little chocolate for you :) And good on you for fostering, especially dogs that need help that most people don't know how to give!
There are always, always warning signs. Some dogs have very specific triggers for this type of behavior, and maybe your household just hadn't experienced the trigger situation since Angel came in. Or maybe Andy was overexcited and Angel wanted to calm him down, or that trigger made Angel unstable. Whatever the case, Angel did not see you as the leader in your home. That's a tough thing to swallow, but again, I'm not saying anything you don't already know.
I've been, and not been, the leader in my own home and elsewhere. I've broken up dog fights that were just about controlling behaviors, and I've broken up fights that were about inflicting pain on or seriously injuring each other (not in my home or with my dogs, fortunately). How we handle these situations is more important than the events themselves. It's all one giant learning experience.
So...chamomile tea and a little chocolate for you :) And good on you for fostering, especially dogs that need help that most people don't know how to give!
Also, when I have to deal with a fight I'm cool as a cuke until it's all over and everyone is calm and normal again. Then I lock myself in a bathroom and bawl my eyes out.
Full disclosure, one rescue mom to another. :)
04-09-2011, 04:36 PM
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Northern CO
Posts: 958
Wow, I hope your dog is OK. I used to be the V.P. of Polaris Husky rescue and we always paid for the vet bills for any dog that that got hurt (luckily there was very few occurrances). I can't believe someone at the rescue or vet would be rude. I'm sure anyone would know you would be upset and concerning about your baby. Lots of hugs to both of you :wink: :wink:
04-10-2011, 04:02 AM
#20
Super Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,376
If that were me, I would never foster again!
Originally Posted by damaquilts
May sound silly to some but 2 hours later I am still shaking.
My brother and I had gone to a yard sale his boss was having . Came home and I let the dogs out like usual. I just got in the house and shut the door to go help get stuff out of the car when I heard THAT sound.
Angel, my foster, had attacked Andy . Angel is 30 lbs , Andy is 13 .
Never had a inkling of it in the last 2 weeks.The first week I went outside with them every time usually if anything is going to happen it will happen then.
Andy seems to be ok no wounds and he is walking Ok but he will not go down that side of the deck . His eyes get real big and he just shakes.
I am really upset because this has never happened in all the years I have been fostering. I have never had to return a dog ever and especially not for attacking one of mine.
I feel bad because Angel just whined when I left her at the vets and she had gotten so she followed me everywhere.
And I feel bad that Andy got attacked.
Its silly but I thought I was having a heart attack literally and I am still having trouble breathing but I know its just a panic attack and will go away.
What really upsets me too is when I called the lady who heads the foster program she acted like I was really inconveniencing her. I told her from the start that if the dog did any thing to Andy it was Gone. And the people at the vets office acted like I was really inconveniencing them. I am not use to that . It would never happened at the rescue I was with in GA . So I am a little mad too.
Thanks for letting me vent.
My brother and I had gone to a yard sale his boss was having . Came home and I let the dogs out like usual. I just got in the house and shut the door to go help get stuff out of the car when I heard THAT sound.
Angel, my foster, had attacked Andy . Angel is 30 lbs , Andy is 13 .
Never had a inkling of it in the last 2 weeks.The first week I went outside with them every time usually if anything is going to happen it will happen then.
Andy seems to be ok no wounds and he is walking Ok but he will not go down that side of the deck . His eyes get real big and he just shakes.
I am really upset because this has never happened in all the years I have been fostering. I have never had to return a dog ever and especially not for attacking one of mine.
I feel bad because Angel just whined when I left her at the vets and she had gotten so she followed me everywhere.
And I feel bad that Andy got attacked.
Its silly but I thought I was having a heart attack literally and I am still having trouble breathing but I know its just a panic attack and will go away.
What really upsets me too is when I called the lady who heads the foster program she acted like I was really inconveniencing her. I told her from the start that if the dog did any thing to Andy it was Gone. And the people at the vets office acted like I was really inconveniencing them. I am not use to that . It would never happened at the rescue I was with in GA . So I am a little mad too.
Thanks for letting me vent.
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