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Thread: Had a scare this morning.

  1. #1
    Super Member damaquilts's Avatar
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    May sound silly to some but 2 hours later I am still shaking.
    My brother and I had gone to a yard sale his boss was having . Came home and I let the dogs out like usual. I just got in the house and shut the door to go help get stuff out of the car when I heard THAT sound.
    Angel, my foster, had attacked Andy . Angel is 30 lbs , Andy is 13 .
    Never had a inkling of it in the last 2 weeks.The first week I went outside with them every time usually if anything is going to happen it will happen then.
    Andy seems to be ok no wounds and he is walking Ok but he will not go down that side of the deck . His eyes get real big and he just shakes.
    I am really upset because this has never happened in all the years I have been fostering. I have never had to return a dog ever and especially not for attacking one of mine.
    I feel bad because Angel just whined when I left her at the vets and she had gotten so she followed me everywhere.
    And I feel bad that Andy got attacked.

    Its silly but I thought I was having a heart attack literally and I am still having trouble breathing but I know its just a panic attack and will go away.

    What really upsets me too is when I called the lady who heads the foster program she acted like I was really inconveniencing her. I told her from the start that if the dog did any thing to Andy it was Gone. And the people at the vets office acted like I was really inconveniencing them. I am not use to that . It would never happened at the rescue I was with in GA . So I am a little mad too.

    Thanks for letting me vent.

  2. #2
    Senior Member katieranch's Avatar
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    That is so scary. And the response to you from the Vet and the Coordinator is absolutely uncalled for. My niece also fosters dogs and she is ready to stop because the coordinator acts like she is doing everyone a favor by "letting" them foster dogs. Hope Andy is alright and you are breathing easier now.

  3. #3
    Super Member JanTx's Avatar
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    First - what a great foster mom you are! Taking care of your own and your fosters. Blessings to you for opening your heart and your home in this way.

    I hope by now the panicky feeling is over - if not sit down with a cup of tea and cuddle Andy until you both feel better.

    The vet and the foster lady should have valued your experience more and reacted differently. They didn't and you can't change that so ... water under the bridge.

    Hope the day got better from there.

  4. #4
    Super Member Tink's Mom's Avatar
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    Write each of them a note...explaining why you are upset with their behavior....then put the note in an envelope and wait a few days to mail it. IF you still feel it is needed...mail it. They may not know that this is the way they are coming across.

    Give Andy a hug from me and Tink.

  5. #5
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    I'm so glad that Andy is ok and was not harmed. You need to get a drink of something, calm down and cuddle with Andy all day long.

    Your fostering is commendable, but I agree that you and your family, even the dogs, need to come first. I would return the foster as soon as possible.

    If the lady who heads this has this kind of attitude then I would think again about fostering for her. I would imagine that there are other programs or ways to foster in your area. You may need to search them out but I would not foster for someone who does not appreciate my efforts.

    They need to know and should want to know when a dog is aggresive to anyone, human or dog, for placement purposes. Without doing so put someone else in harms way. This dog should be placed in a single care foster situation until he can be fully evaluated. If the aggresiveness continues then alternative measures may need to be considered. I would not want to have fostered such an dog and then later find out that it injured a small child.

    I think I would take a break from being a foster home for a while. If the lady asked you why I would tell her directly. Foster homes are not easy to come by and her attitude needs to change. Her attitude shows a lack of concern for those who are providing foster homes for her and the program. Does she carry this same attitude elsewhere?

    Your feelings are just normal for what you and Andy have just been through. Give your attention and love to Andy.

    Pam M

  6. #6
    Super Member Tink's Mom's Avatar
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    I fostered a dog whose owner had died. It was a male dalmation 7 yrs old. The owners nephew was going to have him put down because he didn't want him.
    The fostering didn't work out for me. The dog didn't like females and I couldn't trust him. My husband and sons, he was happy as a clam, slept with my son.
    I was able to get him into a no kill shelter after a long 9 days. I let them know his issues...I was the one feeding and walking and he did not like me. Between my info and what they found at the shelter, he was placed in a home with a middle age male, no children, no girlfriends.

  7. #7
    Senior Member dogsgod's Avatar
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    Thank you for what you've done for those foster dogs.
    I have been a dog person for over 30 years, showing, training, loving and even fostering. It's really annoying how high and mighty some of these fostering agencies get. They seem to think only they know how to deal with dogs the best when in reality, for most of these dogs, no matter what the situation, a house is better than anything they've ever had.

    I think I'd start researching other foster groups who will be more appreciative of what you provide. They should be thankful that you may have discovered a less than desirable trait in this dog that could 'cause problems to an adopter! Think if it was a child or something that set angel off in her new home!

  8. #8
    Magdalena's Avatar
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    So glad Andy is fine. Of course, continue to keep an eye on him, poor thing. In your heart, you know what needs to be done. And I, for one, thank you for caring for our loving furry kins. May God bless you.

  9. #9
    Super Member damaquilts's Avatar
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    Thanks to everyone. I am now calmed down mostly. After a cup of Tension Tamer tea and a couple of doses of Rescue Remedy . Andy also got Rescue Remedy.
    He doesn't want to go outside on that side of the deck. Good thing there are 2 ways down to the yard. And he doesn't want to stay in my bedroom. It took me a minute to figure out why. I put him in there while I took her to the vets office. I am sure he will be ok shortly. He still shakes every once in awhile. But right now he is laying on his bed that is next to my computer. I put his little coat on him too. I just had him shaved down for the summer weather when it was like 80 here and of course now it has gotten cooler. I was freezing and put my flannels back on. So I figured he was cold too. Then realized well duh a shock like that makes someone cold too. :-)
    This is the first time in all the years I have been fostering that this has happened so now I am a little leary of fostering again.
    Either way we won't be doing it for awhile until Andy is feeling better.

  10. #10
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    Oh that is scary...I once got an airedale from Rescue. My DD came home from school and she had a water bottle in hand. Dog walked backwards and growled. DH came home and he did the same thing.
    That nite the dog was out of house. Did not want to take a chance.
    The rescue told me that he was seen by a psychologist and was okay. Two days later she called to tell me than he will never go to another home. He sits in chair all day and you do not go near him.
    So glad I did what was right and booted him out!

  11. #11
    Super Member JulieR's Avatar
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    You can't let Andy be afraid like this - you both need to get over it. Leaving Angel aside for the moment you need to stop acting fearful, and make Andy face his fears as well. Don't pet and coddle him when he's scared; all you're doing is reinforcing the fact that he should be terrified of his environment. You have to show him confidence and that you are in control, so he realizes he does not need to live in fear. Get him on a leash and down that side of the deck, confidently and without babying him. Anything else is harmful to him, and in the long run to you both.

    The fact is no one was hurt. Did you SEE Angel attack Andy? Did you see any of the behaviors of either dog before the altercation? Any dog can tussle with any other dog, given enough provocation or insecurity; that's just how they handle conflict sometimes, especially if there is no clear leader in the house (which should have been you). If Angel or Andy had meant to hurt the other, they would have.

    That said, don't leave out the possibility that Andy caused the problem, whether by his behavior toward Angel or by direct attack. That does not mean bringing Angel back into the house if you're afraid of her (that would be way worse for ALL of you), but it may mean some extra work with Andy so he knows a) you are in charge, and b) that behavior is not tolerated by ANY member of the household.

    Take some deep breaths, get calmed down and then take Andy for that walk through his fears. He won't live in the past if you don't.

  12. #12
    Super Member damaquilts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JulieR
    You can't let Andy be afraid like this - you both need to get over it. Leaving Angel aside for the moment you need to stop acting fearful, and make Andy face his fears as well. Don't pet and coddle him when he's scared; all you're doing is reinforcing the fact that he should be terrified of his environment. You have to show him confidence and that you are in control, so he realizes he does not need to live in fear. Get him on a leash and down that side of the deck, confidently and without babying him. Anything else is harmful to him, and in the long run to you both.

    The fact is no one was hurt. Did you SEE Angel attack Andy? Did you see any of the behaviors of either dog before the altercation? Any dog can tussle with any other dog, given enough provocation or insecurity; that's just how they handle conflict sometimes, especially if there is no clear leader in the house (which should have been you). If Angel or Andy had meant to hurt the other, they would have.

    That said, don't leave out the possibility that Andy caused the problem, whether by his behavior toward Angel or by direct attack. That does not mean bringing Angel back into the house if you're afraid of her (that would be way worse for ALL of you), but it may mean some extra work with Andy so he knows a) you are in charge, and b) that behavior is not tolerated by ANY member of the household.

    Take some deep breaths, get calmed down and then take Andy for that walk through his fears. He won't live in the past if you don't.
    Andy has already been down that side of the deck since I posted that. Andy did not cause it and I saw Andy on the ground with her teeth on his throat. Believe me it was not playing. Andy wouldn't allow coddling, not at all that type of personality. Believe me. He will slowly get over his fear. I know this. I am calmed down it has been some hours. I plan on taking him as soon as I can to Petsmart and letting him be around other dogs in a controlled manner.
    There was NO warning at all. He and Angel have coexisted for a couple of weeks now. With no problem. The only thing Andy may have done is barked at her to get her nose out of his bum since she liked to follow him around and keep it there even when he was peeing.
    This is not by far the first foster I have had. In 8 years I have seen a lot come and go. In the 4 years I have had Andy he has seen many of all ages and sizes. The most he ever does is give a warning bark to back up. If that is what he did an attack is not an appropriate response. I am not afraid of Angel although she has nipped me a couple of time. She didn't like her feet or ears bothered with which had allergic reactions and an infection respectively . I really thought with time I could work with her and get her straightened out. I was making progress. I could actually slide my hands down her legs and pick her feet up for a second or two. I am the leader in my house. Andy and I went through stuff when I got him. Angel also was being trained Nothing in Life is Free.
    If I hadn't been there within seconds Andy could have been hurt he is 13lbs she is 30 no question who would have won.

  13. #13
    Super Member JulieR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by damaquilts
    Andy has already been down that side of the deck since I posted that. Andy did not cause it and I saw Andy on the ground with her teeth on his throat. Believe me it was not playing. Andy wouldn't allow coddling, not at all that type of personality. Believe me. He will slowly get over his fear. I know this. I am calmed down it has been some hours. I plan on taking him as soon as I can to Petsmart and letting him be around other dogs in a controlled manner.
    There was NO warning at all. He and Angel have coexisted for a couple of weeks now. With no problem. The only thing Andy may have done is barked at her to get her nose out of his bum since she liked to follow him around and keep it there even when he was peeing.
    This is not by far the first foster I have had. In 8 years I have seen a lot come and go. In the 4 years I have had Andy he has seen many of all ages and sizes. The most he ever does is give a warning bark to back up. If that is what he did an attack is not an appropriate response. I am not afraid of Angel although she has nipped me a couple of time. She didn't like her feet or ears bothered with which had allergic reactions and an infection respectively . I really thought with time I could work with her and get her straightened out. I was making progress. I could actually slide my hands down her legs and pick her feet up for a second or two. I am the leader in my house. Andy and I went through stuff when I got him. Angel also was being trained Nothing in Life is Free.
    If I hadn't been there within seconds Andy could have been hurt he is 13lbs she is 30 no question who would have won.
    I never said they were playing - they most certainly weren't. But if Angel had wanted to harm Andy she would have. It sounds to me like you have enough experience with this to know that already; now you just have to remind yourself and breathe!

    There are always, always warning signs. Some dogs have very specific triggers for this type of behavior, and maybe your household just hadn't experienced the trigger situation since Angel came in. Or maybe Andy was overexcited and Angel wanted to calm him down, or that trigger made Angel unstable. Whatever the case, Angel did not see you as the leader in your home. That's a tough thing to swallow, but again, I'm not saying anything you don't already know.

    I've been, and not been, the leader in my own home and elsewhere. I've broken up dog fights that were just about controlling behaviors, and I've broken up fights that were about inflicting pain on or seriously injuring each other (not in my home or with my dogs, fortunately). How we handle these situations is more important than the events themselves. It's all one giant learning experience.

    So...chamomile tea and a little chocolate for you :) And good on you for fostering, especially dogs that need help that most people don't know how to give!

  14. #14
    Super Member DogHouseMom's Avatar
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    My best for a speedy recovery, both physical and mental for Andy (and you!)

    I took in a foster which I knew was a dog out of a litter that an aquaintance had bred. Normally in pure-bred rescue we contact the breeder when a dog of their breeding is found in a shelter and request that they take responsibility. I did contact the breeder, but I agreed to foster this bitch because the breeder was in the middle of moving to a new home. The bitch was kind of whacky to begin with, had spent her whole life tied to a chain in the yard so socialization was minimal at best, manners were worse. I had her a few weeks in the house with my other dogs (I had 4 of my own at the time). One night there was a thunderstorm and two of my dogs were very fearful of T-storms and were both under my feet at my computer desk shaking and whining. The foster was also afraid of T-storms and tried to get a spot there as well. I'm still not sure who started what, but the foster and one of my bitches got into a fight (and two bitches fighting is the worst!). My other dogs scattered (thankfully), I used my keyboard (!) to insert between their muzzles to get them apart, then was able to use voice alone to shoo one of the dogs out of the room to separate them. The foster was fine, but my bitch had a really bad torn ear (looked like it was fileted!) and she had to go to the vet ... at midnight ... on a Sunday ... Easter Sunday!! Needless to say that little trip cost me a pretty penny.
    After that I contacted the breeder and said "I hope your moved in because you've got another dog coming". To her credit she took her back but I learned later that she had the foster euthanized. I found out because the vet she used to euthanize her called ME and asked me why I DUMPED the dog on her door step! Not only did I not "dump" the dog, the breeder met me 1/2 way and drove her home in her vehicle. I even told the vet to contact MY vet and verify that I had vet checked and vaccinated her - why would I go through that expense if I was going to "dump" her. Needless to say not only do I not speak to this breeder anymore, I also put the word out to fellow breeders so she was never able to purchase a Kuvasz again. To this day we don't speak when we see each other. If she asks me the time of day or something benign, I'll be civil to her but I won't let her back in my life or my breed if I can help it.
    I don't take kindly to breeders who will not take care of their puppies for life.

  15. #15
    Super Member JulieR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JulieR
    I never said they were playing - they most certainly weren't. But if Angel had wanted to harm Andy she would have. It sounds to me like you have enough experience with this to know that already; now you just have to remind yourself and breathe!

    There are always, always warning signs. Some dogs have very specific triggers for this type of behavior, and maybe your household just hadn't experienced the trigger situation since Angel came in. Or maybe Andy was overexcited and Angel wanted to calm him down, or that trigger made Angel unstable. Whatever the case, Angel did not see you as the leader in your home. That's a tough thing to swallow, but again, I'm not saying anything you don't already know.

    I've been, and not been, the leader in my own home and elsewhere. I've broken up dog fights that were just about controlling behaviors, and I've broken up fights that were about inflicting pain on or seriously injuring each other (not in my home or with my dogs, fortunately). How we handle these situations is more important than the events themselves. It's all one giant learning experience.

    So...chamomile tea and a little chocolate for you :) And good on you for fostering, especially dogs that need help that most people don't know how to give!
    By the way, I'm only still writing all this because if you continue to foster, chances are you are going to see this again.

    Also, when I have to deal with a fight I'm cool as a cuke until it's all over and everyone is calm and normal again. Then I lock myself in a bathroom and bawl my eyes out.

    Full disclosure, one rescue mom to another. :)

  16. #16
    Super Member KimS's Avatar
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    I'm also a dog lover so I know exactly what you mean about being so scared you couldn't breath!! I hope both dogs are ok now along with yourself.

  17. #17
    Senior Member twospoiledhuskies's Avatar
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    Wow, I hope your dog is OK. I used to be the V.P. of Polaris Husky rescue and we always paid for the vet bills for any dog that that got hurt (luckily there was very few occurrances). I can't believe someone at the rescue or vet would be rude. I'm sure anyone would know you would be upset and concerning about your baby. Lots of hugs to both of you :wink: :wink:

  18. #18
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    Hope you and Andy are felling better. Should you continue to foster, maybe you should consider taking only small dogs.

  19. #19
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    ditto

  20. #20
    Super Member OmaForFour's Avatar
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    If that were me, I would never foster again!

    Quote Originally Posted by damaquilts
    May sound silly to some but 2 hours later I am still shaking.
    My brother and I had gone to a yard sale his boss was having . Came home and I let the dogs out like usual. I just got in the house and shut the door to go help get stuff out of the car when I heard THAT sound.
    Angel, my foster, had attacked Andy . Angel is 30 lbs , Andy is 13 .
    Never had a inkling of it in the last 2 weeks.The first week I went outside with them every time usually if anything is going to happen it will happen then.
    Andy seems to be ok no wounds and he is walking Ok but he will not go down that side of the deck . His eyes get real big and he just shakes.
    I am really upset because this has never happened in all the years I have been fostering. I have never had to return a dog ever and especially not for attacking one of mine.
    I feel bad because Angel just whined when I left her at the vets and she had gotten so she followed me everywhere.
    And I feel bad that Andy got attacked.

    Its silly but I thought I was having a heart attack literally and I am still having trouble breathing but I know its just a panic attack and will go away.

    What really upsets me too is when I called the lady who heads the foster program she acted like I was really inconveniencing her. I told her from the start that if the dog did any thing to Andy it was Gone. And the people at the vets office acted like I was really inconveniencing them. I am not use to that . It would never happened at the rescue I was with in GA . So I am a little mad too.

    Thanks for letting me vent.

  21. #21
    Super Member damaquilts's Avatar
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    I will continue to foster no problem. There are plenty of dogs out there that need fostering.
    Andy is doing much better this morning. If I had not been on the scene within seconds, it didn't have time to escalate, I do believe Andy would have been hurt. And yes I was upset. Andy is very special to me. To put it mildly he has kept me alive.
    She(coordinator) is coming to pick up the rest of Angels things today.I will see how she acts then. Although I am going to hold on to the things I bought yesterday and have on order.

    I did write up a recommedation for Angel. She really needs to be not in a regular foster home but in one with someone who is experienced with traumitized dogs. You see Angel was severely abused before the people who gave her up took her and they did nothing to work on her problems just lived with them. She bit her owner that is why the rescue got her back. She was stressed out when the owners son and grandchildren (1 &3) who moved back home. I figured I had worked with dogs that were unsocialized before even ones that had problems with being handled and did fine. Angel is beyond my experience. I have a friend who is a trainer and we have been emailing back and forth about Angel the whole time.
    Andy went right outside and down the right side of the deck as always this morning. He did however pee all over the yard. LOL He usually just goes to his one spot.
    He didn't like it when I closed the bathroom door this morning and sat and whined but he will get over it. I don't live alone.
    I also realize this is Not Angels fault . It is the fault of humans.But like my coordinator in GA use to say . You can't save them all.

  22. #22
    Power Poster CarrieAnne's Avatar
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    Hugs! Dog fights are just terrifying. My lttle Noel cannot be trusted around other female dogs.....I nearly boke my leg trying to break up a fight with her and another female dog. Some dogs just cant be around other dogs, for safety reasons. Glad little Andy is okay, and so sorry the place wasnt very supportive. You tried!

  23. #23
    Senior Member shamrock's Avatar
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    This reminds me of a trauma my daughter is going through. She is a single Mom, out of work for a year. (Her theater was closed). She loves small animals. Fostered kittens for awhile, then volunteered one evening a week at a shelter. After a few weeks, they paired her with a 70 lb.. dog, she weighs @110 lbs. Things were fine til he saw a squirrel and took off. The leash was around her hand and through her fingers. By the time she got him settled down, she had a severly broken finger and sprined wrist. Her right hand. After 2 surgeries, physical therapy she is better, but her hand will never be the same. Of course, the shelter doesn't insure its volunteers, nor did they offer to compensate her in any way, not even with her out of pocket co-pays. Just something more to think about.

  24. #24
    Senior Member 3TreeFrog's Avatar
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    Oh my goodness, that is a frightening experience. Too bad for the lady who heads up the fostering for the dogs. I do hope your dog is alright, and I hope that you are alright with this experience. I am so sorry that this has happened to you.

    Thank you for fostering dogs, this is not an easy task.

    TreeFrog

  25. #25
    Senior Member arimuse's Avatar
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    we have strays, cats and dogs. my brother brings them home on their verge of dying - some just wander in. everyone is immediately taken for shots and then neutered. they all have some type of issues, mostly i think they stay in survival mode. they all want exclusive attention, they dont trust us to know we wont hurt them, they miss something where they were from, they all want tons of food and try to eat each others before their own. each trys to run all the others off. some make very close friendships as groups of 2 and 3. the biggest thing ive learned is never let them be together, even if they seem ok w/ each other, unless they are the same size - at least until they display a real attachment. just tolerating each other isnt enough. share t

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