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Thread: Cheating???

  1. #51
    Super Member Wanabee Quiltin's Avatar
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    I entered a quilt show and wrote on the card that it was long arm quilted by Marie ......Almost all the quilts were long arm quited by someone else. I know a long arm quilter who did such a beautiful job on a quilt that she was awarded a blue ribbon for the quilting and the lady sent it to her from Connecticut. I don't think it's cheating if it is stated who did what.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by soccertxi View Post
    Please don't use the word "cheat". Someone told me I was a CHEATER...loudly and often, because I'm a machine quilter and not a hand quilter. Its SUCH a strong word. I was so upset, I cried. Now I'm just angry that I let that man's words cheapen the nice work I do. Everyone has their own opinions I know, but this is QUILTING..not surgery or rocket science. There is a place for ALL that we do. By the way, next time I show off a quilt, and his JAW drops, he might hear that he will NEVER get one of my quilts. And I did not picket his cabinet shop with signs that said he was a cheater because he uses POWER TOOLS instead of hand tools. ....ok...sorry! Off my soap box now...I love it ALL..hand, machine, quilt for hire, do all your own... we need to back ourselves up, not knock ourselves down.
    I don't think the OP was saying at all that it was cheating to MAKE a quilt in this manner, she was wondering if it was cheating to enter a quilt in a show that was made in this manner.

    And it really depends completely on the show. I've seen show announcements that ONLY accept quilts that were pieced and quilted by one person, no other stitchers allowed, including binding. In this case, it absolutely would be cheating. I have seen others that allow multiple stitchers, but they all have to be named, so if the person entering the show didn't disclose that other did the work, it would be cheating. And then there are other shows that have no restrictions at all, not cheating.

    This board is good about not having quilt police- it isn't cheating to make a quilt in any manner you want to make it. But to enter a show and win a prize while not following rules, that is the definition of cheating. Without knowing what this quilt show's rules were, I can't say whether this person cheated or not.

  3. #53
    Power Poster gabeway's Avatar
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    She wouldn't have told you she sent it out to be quilted if she thought it was cheating. Like many have said, the rules vary. To me the overall design and piecing make the quilt. The quilting enhances that creation. We send out all our quilts but don't enter them in competition. I do give credit to the quilter.
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by soccertxi View Post
    Please don't use the word "cheat". Someone told me I was a CHEATER...loudly and often, because I'm a machine quilter and not a hand quilter. Its SUCH a strong word. I was so upset, I cried. Now I'm just angry that I let that man's words cheapen the nice work I do. Everyone has their own opinions I know, but this is QUILTING..not surgery or rocket science. There is a place for ALL that we do. By the way, next time I show off a quilt, and his JAW drops, he might hear that he will NEVER get one of my quilts. And I did not picket his cabinet shop with signs that said he was a cheater because he uses POWER TOOLS instead of hand tools. ....ok...sorry! Off my soap box now...I love it ALL..hand, machine, quilt for hire, do all your own... we need to back ourselves up, not knock ourselves down.
    Thank you for this.....I can't hand quilt, the arthritis in my hands wont' allow it, but I piece my quilts on the machine and hand sew the binding on (altho that is even getting rough), to say I'm cheating on my quilts is an insult....I realize there are SNOBS in every craft but that goes a bit far!

  5. #55
    Super Member jcrow's Avatar
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    I was at a family funeral and the person who died had his first wife show up. I was talking to my cousin about quilting when this first wife said loudly how she hand pieced and hand quilted only. She said it took her two years to make one quilt. She started yada yada yada about hand sewing and how that is the only way to make a quilt. I stood up from the table and walked off.

    Her bragging and putting my cousin and myself down was really bothering me. Since 1992 I've made over 50 quilts and no one that I've given a quilt to has even said a word about them being sewn with a sewing machine or quilted by a LAer. It was the first time in 15 years I saw my cousin and we found out that we both quilted and this lady ruined it for the both of us. I don't know if I'll see my cousin again and I'm frustrated by this lady's bragging. Why do people who hand sew think they have the right to brag to people who machine sew?
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by DebbieG View Post
    Thank you for this.....I can't hand quilt, the arthritis in my hands wont' allow it, but I piece my quilts on the machine and hand sew the binding on (altho that is even getting rough), to say I'm cheating on my quilts is an insult....I realize there are SNOBS in every craft but that goes a bit far!
    She never said ANYTHING about machine quilting being cheating. She asked whether it was cheating to enter a quilt in a show that wasn't all your own work. Since we don't know the rules of the show, we can't answer that, could be cheating, most cases it isn't- but people sure are getting fussy about something the OP didn't even say. The comment about cheating was entirely about SHOWS, not just making quilts.

  7. #57
    Super Member soccertxi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    She never said ANYTHING about machine quilting being cheating. She asked whether it was cheating to enter a quilt in a show that wasn't all your own work. Since we don't know the rules of the show, we can't answer that, could be cheating, most cases it isn't- but people sure are getting fussy about something the OP didn't even say. The comment about cheating was entirely about SHOWS, not just making quilts.
    All I asked was not to use the word 'CHEAT" Its a strong word and evokes hard feelings.
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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by soccertxi View Post
    All I asked was not to use the word 'CHEAT" Its a strong word and evokes hard feelings.
    But if you enter a contest and deliberately do not follow the rules (which we cannot verify the person this thread was started about was doing without seeing those rules, they likely weren't) you are CHEATING.

    If a quilt show says only a single stitcher, if someone else did your quilting, and you enter anyway, it's cheating.
    If you enter a quilt show that asks you to disclose whether you used a stitch regulator, and you did but don't say- it's cheating.

    What word would you prefer? Doing something against the rules, on purpose, is cheating.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by soccertxi View Post
    Please don't use the word "cheat". Someone told me I was a CHEATER...loudly and often, because I'm a machine quilter and not a hand quilter. Its SUCH a strong word. I was so upset, I cried. Now I'm just angry that I let that man's words cheapen the nice work I do. Everyone has their own opinions I know, but this is QUILTING..not surgery or rocket science. There is a place for ALL that we do. By the way, next time I show off a quilt, and his JAW drops, he might hear that he will NEVER get one of my quilts. And I did not picket his cabinet shop with signs that said he was a cheater because he uses POWER TOOLS instead of hand tools. ....ok...sorry! Off my soap box now...I love it ALL..hand, machine, quilt for hire, do all your own... we need to back ourselves up, not knock ourselves down.
    One of my coworkers told me the same thing...that I cheated because I machine pieced!. I love your example about the use of power tools vs hand tools. Think that would apply to just about everything we do. If someone chooses to use "traditional" methods or "modern" methods, it's their choice.

  10. #60
    Super Member GrannieAnnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    But if you enter a contest and deliberately do not follow the rules (which we cannot verify the person this thread was started about was doing without seeing those rules, they likely weren't) you are CHEATING.

    If a quilt show says only a single stitcher, if someone else did your quilting, and you enter anyway, it's cheating.
    If you enter a quilt show that asks you to disclose whether you used a stitch regulator, and you did but don't say- it's cheating.

    What word would you prefer? Doing something against the rules, on purpose, is cheating.
    this poster STATED that the quilter told her she had done the piecing and someone else did the quilting. So, she's apparently not keeping the other person's involvement a secret. How anyone can surmise by that statement that the rules were not followed is beyond me.
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  11. #61
    Super Member GrannieAnnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caroloto View Post
    That is sad, the same type of thing happened to my friend's beautiful well made quilt judged last year at our fair, she has shown quilts for several years and has always place 1st or 2nd place. 1st time over the years had I even seen any craft (all sewing) items where this was done, yes notice it in all sewing classes where there were disqualification! Plus it wasn't only quilts at this fair where they disqualifed only in the quilting...I'm thinking it's was the judge/judges they hired. Hopefully this years fair they won't hire the same ones to judge. I think what got me the most about those disqualifaction was some of those entries are done by the 4-Hers they do their best and they own animals which they show at the fair!!!

    I would go ahead and enter you yo yo quilt, maybe they hired the same judge/judges that judge here...
    Judges are individuals. I'm sure they have guidelines to follow, but then again, so much of what they say will be subjective. As humans, there's no way around that.

    Heavens, even our supreme court judges are influenced by their own lifes----political affiliation, ethnic origin, home regions, previous experience.

    Short version, you can't guess what the judges will be looking for------unless you and they have been given exact criteria.
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  12. #62
    Super Member soccertxi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    But if you enter a contest and deliberately do not follow the rules (which we cannot verify the person this thread was started about was doing without seeing those rules, they likely weren't) you are CHEATING.

    If a quilt show says only a single stitcher, if someone else did your quilting, and you enter anyway, it's cheating.
    If you enter a quilt show that asks you to disclose whether you used a stitch regulator, and you did but don't say- it's cheating.

    What word would you prefer? Doing something against the rules, on purpose, is cheating.
    Seems like I stirred up a hornets nest, haven't I? When I hear the word "cheat", my brain stops listening. I have my hackles up. I am already in defend mode. I hear nothing else after that. The quilt shows that I have considered entering, have not , in my opinion, dealt with this issue fully. Often they consider that someone else has had their quilt machine quilted, and yet never consider the fact that someone has been paid to HAND quilt a quilt. Some quilters would NEVER let their quilt be quilted by someone else, lest it not be "their" quilt. Other quilters consider it "theirs" no matter WHO quilted it. You are correct: if the rules state a single stitcher, you didn't quilt it and enter it as a single stitcher, you have broken the rules. I just wish that strong words like 'cheater', were a last resort and not a first response.
    Beth in AZ
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  13. #63
    Super Member catmcclure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeresaS View Post
    I was speaking to someone who won grand prize at the county fair for her quilt. It was beautiful. But after talking to her she said she sent it out to be sandwiched quilted and binded. Is that not cheating? Or is that ok?
    This is standard practice in a lot of quilt shows. The label has to reflect that it was pieced by XX and quilted by YY and designed by ZZ. Other than that, there are no rules at most shows. Bear in mind that a quilt being quilted for a show costs probably $500 and up for the long-arm work.

  14. #64
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    As a new quilter who has not entered into the "quilt show" world, this subject fascinates me. Aside from the judging in shows, there is of course judging by any with whom we share our quilts. As some have stated here, there are "quilt snobs" who consider a machine pieced or machine quilted piece to be less of a quilt than one which is pieced an/or quilted by hand.

    This made me wonder how our great-great grandmothers may have looked at things. Often their quilts were pieced by them alone, by hand or with a sewing machine. Then, the actual quilting was done by hand, by MANY...at a quilting bee. Do you suppose that any of those quilts were judged at county fairs and the like? Were these quilts judged harshly because they were the work of more than one person? Was it considered a quilting crime to piece a quilt by machine? I know that hand quilting is still sometimes done in a group setting, in fact I would love to participate in one sometime, once I learn how to hand quilt. I just wonder how things were looked at by those who came before us. There seems to be a popular notion that our forebears did everything by hand "because it was better" when in fact, they apparently adopted newer labor-saving methods whenever possible. Isn't it strange that such division exists in the quilting world? Where did this come from?

  15. #65
    Senior Member TeresaS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    She never said ANYTHING about machine quilting being cheating. She asked whether it was cheating to enter a quilt in a show that wasn't all your own work. Since we don't know the rules of the show, we can't answer that, could be cheating, most cases it isn't- but people sure are getting fussy about something the OP didn't even say. The comment about cheating was entirely about SHOWS, not just making quilts.
    Thank you, At least one person understood my question. I am working on a Judy Neimeyer Mariners Compass and hope to enter it in the fair. I first for me. This is a king size quilt that I can not do on my machine and will need to send out. That was the why I asked the question which I truely regret asking now. Thank you for understanding my question.

  16. #66
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    Teresa- for your quilt, you need to carefully read the rules of the fair you want to enter. It is probably okay, but it will vary.

  17. #67
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    The issue to me is attributing the work to the person who performed the work. If you piece the top, send it out to be professionally quilted, and then display it, you should give credit to the quilter. If you used another person's design, you should give credit to the pattern designer. Even if you bought the pattern or paid the quilter. After all, I wouldn't become the artist of Sunflowers by buying it at an auction; I would still need to give credit to Vincent as its creator. I would be very uncomfortable (large dose of Lutheran guilt here) taking credit for someone else's work, and often wonder what the real names were of the makers of some of the beautiful 17th and 18th century quilts that are attributed to the owners.
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  18. #68
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    Haven't read all the posts but anyone who thinks machine quilting is 'cheating' just hasn't tried to do it. It's waaaaaaaaay beyond my abilities.
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  19. #69
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    For a show quilt - if the entry follows the rules - In my opinion, it's not cheating.

    I do wonder how shows can keep up with enough categories to accommodate all the different ways of how a quilt can be made and how to 'have a level playing field' for the various entries.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by bearisgray View Post
    I do wonder how shows can keep up with enough categories to accommodate all the different ways of how a quilt can be made and how to 'have a level playing field' for the various entries.
    They don't. You just can't enter them all.

    I had a quilt that I thought would fit perfectly in a themed show, but then I read that the rules require all original work, and I used a pattern. So I couldn't submit it.

    Another show allows NO tied quilts, so anyone who does those is out. Some shows only allow quilts that are 3 layers sewn together- yo-yo quilts, crazy quilts, cathedral windows don't qualify.

    The show I recently entered allows patterns, but only a single stitcher. People who send their quilts out don't qualify, luckily for me- I did all the work on this one (and I attributed the pattern and gained designer permission.)


    I really wanted to enter my state fair but the only two categories are pieced quilts or applique quilts. My quilt is shadow trapunto, which looks like applique, but is not. There is no way the quilt would be judged well because it doesn't fit either category. So I passed.

    Haven't read all the posts but anyone who thinks machine quilting is 'cheating' just hasn't tried to do it. It's waaaaaaaaay beyond my abilities.
    That wasn't what the thread was about. It was about whether entering work that is not entirely your own in a show is cheating.

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