if you make quilts/items to sell- a new developement
11-23-2011, 06:43 AM
#151
Super Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western Nevada
Posts: 2,520
This is an interesting subject, but I think there is a lot of over-reaction going on here. We sell some licensed fabrics, and I'm sure some of the people who buy them are going to make articles to sell at craft fairs, holiday boutiques, etc.
There are statements on the fabric to the effect of "not for commercial use -- licensed fabrics."
My take on this, after researching it, is that I as a reseller can not knowingly sell this to someone who is operating a commercial enterprise involved in making these things. HOWEVER -- we don't sell into the wholesale market, we sell into the retail market. What a retail customer does with these fabrics is their business, as far as I'm concerned.
If anyone was buying these fabrics to manufacture goods on a large-scale basis, they'd be buying wholesale, from the same sources I buy them from. I think the warnings are actually placed there as a restraint against wholesalers and distributors selling goods into factories, and I think that's a legitimate purpose.
I've never heard of anyone being sued over selling a few items made with licensed fabric, at a craft fair or other such venue. Sure, a company with deep pockets like Disney might go after small vendors, but even they are way more concerned with counterfeit knockoffs of their licensed finished products coming out of China, etc...
I don't think you have anything to worry about if you're just making and selling a few items, as long as you stay away from Disney and a few other biggies like the NFL and other professional and college sports team stuff.
And as a matter of fact, the most that could happen is that, if someone wanted to push small vendors, they'd be seeking a cease and desist order on you, not having you arrested. Violating a copyright is a civil matter, not a criminal matter. Only when you are involved in product piracy, like counterfeiting an identical licensed product, does it become a criminal matter.
There are statements on the fabric to the effect of "not for commercial use -- licensed fabrics."
My take on this, after researching it, is that I as a reseller can not knowingly sell this to someone who is operating a commercial enterprise involved in making these things. HOWEVER -- we don't sell into the wholesale market, we sell into the retail market. What a retail customer does with these fabrics is their business, as far as I'm concerned.
If anyone was buying these fabrics to manufacture goods on a large-scale basis, they'd be buying wholesale, from the same sources I buy them from. I think the warnings are actually placed there as a restraint against wholesalers and distributors selling goods into factories, and I think that's a legitimate purpose.
I've never heard of anyone being sued over selling a few items made with licensed fabric, at a craft fair or other such venue. Sure, a company with deep pockets like Disney might go after small vendors, but even they are way more concerned with counterfeit knockoffs of their licensed finished products coming out of China, etc...
I don't think you have anything to worry about if you're just making and selling a few items, as long as you stay away from Disney and a few other biggies like the NFL and other professional and college sports team stuff.
And as a matter of fact, the most that could happen is that, if someone wanted to push small vendors, they'd be seeking a cease and desist order on you, not having you arrested. Violating a copyright is a civil matter, not a criminal matter. Only when you are involved in product piracy, like counterfeiting an identical licensed product, does it become a criminal matter.
11-23-2011, 07:03 AM
#152
Super Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Somewhere in the Heart of grain field
Posts: 1,826
Wow Really
Ok, here is just a quiet thought here....think for a minute. Most of us here are just loving, caring quilters who love to spread love right. We quilt to brighten someone's day, or give to charity ok and maybe try and re-coup some funds. We as quilters really do generous things for different organizations, whether to make things to sell as a raffle article to raise funds ect ect...see where I'm going with this...Ok now really some designer is going to take you to task for using their not for commerical use fabric. Hum really, don't you think that all over the world there would be public out cry against the designer. Really I'm pretty sure some lawyer would do a free bono for the quilter/quilters who were being charged for using the designer's fabric. I'm just saying that I don't believe if it was taken that far as being charged for using the fabric for sale of homemade articles would go very far. The designer themselves would find them quickly out of work for sure, because us quilters have a pretty big voice. So for me, go ahead make your move designer see how publically you would be humiluated. I'm sure there will be some who will try and those will be the ones who will be outst for sure.
11-23-2011, 07:08 AM
#153
Super Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Saratoga, Arkansas
Posts: 1,909
I'm glad this issue has been pointed out and discussed. I will not be buying the fabric with this selvage warning. I don't sell anything; it's the principal of the matter. If I buy it, it's mine to do with as I please. It would be like Hershey saying we can't sell desserts that has their chocolate in them. I do know that the University of Arkansas has sued for the unauthorized use of their/Razorback logo. But it seems to me if they sale fabric with that logo, they've authorized it. Thank goodness there is plenty of good and pretty fabric out there without them.
11-23-2011, 07:19 AM
#154
Super Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: central Indiana
Posts: 1,166
Wow...this has turned into a very long thread! Instead of getting all worked up over this issue...I am thinking just about myself. I make items and just rarely sell something I have made...like maybe a Bow Tuck bag that someone "just has to have" or, yes, maybe a few items to sell in a church bazaar or in a local festival. I, personally, am not going to worry over whatever fabric I use for those items...Disney, NFL, etc. I sincerely doubt that there is going to be a representative from a huge company checking out the bazaar/festival in my small community of about 5000 people to make sure all us crafters are in compliance. In the case of Disney...they do not want anyone using their licensed fabric to make items to sell at a lesser price than they can get at their theme parks/stores. They do not want the competition for the almighty dollar. Consumers, on the other hand, many times like better the 'unique' items in the licensed fabrics that they can find at bazaars/festivals and, often-times, can get for a fraction of the cost. Unless one is planning on selling items on the internet or planning to open a brick and mortar store in town in which to sell your items (or setting up a booth outside the entrance to one of Disney's theme parks), I really think you are safe. Again...I think there is an awful lot of over-reacting going on here.
11-23-2011, 07:57 AM
#155
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: DeQueen, Arkansas
Posts: 539
I have heard this before. I will use whatever fabric I want to buy. I don't believe it will hold up in court. But if they want to push it they will lose big bucks in lost sales!
Originally Posted by ptquilts
I don't see how they can enforce this. Let's say Sue bought the fabric from LQS and it had the warning. It goes into her stash, a year later she has one fat quarter left with no selvage on it. She gives or sells it to Pam, who uses it to make a quilt that she offers for sale. She has no way of knowing the limitations.
Also, there is something called First Sale Doctrine. From Wikipedia, "The doctrine allows the purchaser to transfer (i.e., sell, lend or give away) a particular lawfully made copy of the copyrighted work without permission once it has been obtained. This means that the copyright holder's rights to control the change of ownership of a particular copy ends once ownership of that copy has passed to someone else, as long as the copy itself is not an infringing copy. This doctrine is also referred to as the "right of first sale," "first sale rule," or "exhaustion rule."
I run into this when selling books on Amazon. Sometimes you get a book marked, Not for Re-sale. It is not legally binding for eternity.
Also, there is something called First Sale Doctrine. From Wikipedia, "The doctrine allows the purchaser to transfer (i.e., sell, lend or give away) a particular lawfully made copy of the copyrighted work without permission once it has been obtained. This means that the copyright holder's rights to control the change of ownership of a particular copy ends once ownership of that copy has passed to someone else, as long as the copy itself is not an infringing copy. This doctrine is also referred to as the "right of first sale," "first sale rule," or "exhaustion rule."
I run into this when selling books on Amazon. Sometimes you get a book marked, Not for Re-sale. It is not legally binding for eternity.
11-23-2011, 08:31 AM
#156
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: southern Oklahoma
Posts: 954
Originally Posted by k9dancer
That's the point; it is NOT a law. Just because they would like it to be so, does not make it so. They could print on the selvedge "not to be used by anyone named Sylvia," but they could never enforce that because the Sylvias of the world never agreed to it.
Actually, I read somewhere that famous quilters are "hired" to put their name on various lines and most don't actually design it themselves. The textile companys have "designers" to do the actual work. So who are we infringing on?
11-23-2011, 08:42 AM
#157
Super Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Keller, TX
Posts: 1,916
Here's a question....What if you make a quilt from this precious/exclusive fabric and you donate it or give as a gift and the reciever sells it in a craft show....then what, your charity or friend gets sued? GIVE ME A BREAK!
ENOUGH ALREADY. I will continue to purchase whatever I like, if I take my quilt to a craft sale, I will just ask for the payment to be a donation to a needy quilter. Has anyone actually seen the fabric design police at a craft show?
I also agree with the position, if a designer doesn't want her design to be cut, redesigned, sewn, ironed, starched, and made into something more beautiful than bolt fabric, then keep the design off the market....Oh yeah, the designers want to make a profit too, imagine that. Quilters ARE DESIGNERS! The fabric we buy is the raw material we use to "manufactuer" our designs. You don't see Swavarski crystal company, or fabric paint companies telling us we can't sell our quilts if we use their "designed" crystals and paint colors.....may be speaking too soon. Isn't this ridiculous......the insanity stops here. I will purchase, redesign and sell...so sue me. Stand up.
ENOUGH ALREADY. I will continue to purchase whatever I like, if I take my quilt to a craft sale, I will just ask for the payment to be a donation to a needy quilter. Has anyone actually seen the fabric design police at a craft show?
I also agree with the position, if a designer doesn't want her design to be cut, redesigned, sewn, ironed, starched, and made into something more beautiful than bolt fabric, then keep the design off the market....Oh yeah, the designers want to make a profit too, imagine that. Quilters ARE DESIGNERS! The fabric we buy is the raw material we use to "manufactuer" our designs. You don't see Swavarski crystal company, or fabric paint companies telling us we can't sell our quilts if we use their "designed" crystals and paint colors.....may be speaking too soon. Isn't this ridiculous......the insanity stops here. I will purchase, redesign and sell...so sue me. Stand up.
11-23-2011, 08:44 AM
#158
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Pinehurst, NC
Posts: 224
Lawyers do have a way of taking the fun out of everything. I gift my creations because I don't think they're good enough to sell, and I agree with most of you - I will NEVER buy fabric that has that on the selvage!
11-23-2011, 09:01 AM
#159
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Lakeport Ca
Posts: 95
I'm with you dunster! We just want to buy fabric and sew and quilt and maybe sell things once in awhile not have to go to law school to do it! I'll be looking for marked fabric and not buying it if at all possible! Have a wnderful Thanksgiving everyone!
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
