Pilot FriXion pens
08-14-2015, 09:52 AM
#31
Super Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 9,406
I find it fascinating that this was the response you got. In post #27 above, the link I provided (in case nobody bothered to click on it) goes to a blog whose author, Jenny Lyon, also contacted Pilot and got completely different answers.
The responses DOTTYMO got from Pilot are in blue; the responses Jenny Lyon got from Pilot are in green.
I called the Pilot pen company and asked for a representative knowledgeable about Frixion pens and their use on fabric. She was quick to note that Frixion pens were not designed to be used on fabric!
The Frixion ink is actually a combination of two things: gel ink, and a thermo ink. The addition of the thermo ink is what makes the gel ink disappear with heat. But note, Frixion pens are basically gel pens with some added thermo ink. That means that you are putting gel ink on your quilt when using Frixion pens.
Because so many customers were using Frixion pens on fabric, Pilot did some testing to try to remove the stains. She noted that just like removing any other ink stain, sometimes you would need to spot scrub to remove the mark.
(see above quote re: washing ink out)
That ink will disappear only because of the thermo ink - the gel ink is still there on your quilt unless you take additional steps to remove it.
Jenny Lyon's post has information about what products to use and how to use them to remove the ink.
Here's what I take from Jenny Lyon's conversation with the Pilot rep she talked to:
1. Frixion pens combine gel ink and thermo ink. You are marking your quilt with a gel pen that disappears.
2. The marks will reappear if the quilt gets cold unless the mark is completely removed with an ink remover. Even after a thorough steam of the marks, they will reappear in the cold. This is part of the inherent chemistry of the ink combination.
3. To completely remove the ink so that it will not ghost or reappear in the cold, you will need an ink remover and also may possibly need to scrub the area. The manufacturer has tested 2 products (see Jenny's post) and found them to be fairly effective in removing the ink.
4. Frixion pens sometimes leave a ghost mark after steaming. This is the thermo ink showing on the quilt, not the gel. The Pilot rep said to rid the piece of ghost marks you would need to treat it with the ink removers listed above.
P.S. A personal word about gel ink:
I had a bad experience a few years ago with gel ink. My husband dropped a gel pen on a very expensive business dress shirt and didn't realize it for several minutes. The ink wicked into the cotton and made a huge blot about 3" in diameter. I didn't want to experiment with stain removers on his dress shirt, so I replicated several stains on some scrap cotton and tested various removal methods to find the best one. I tried EVERYTHING. Bleach, hair spray, 4 different commercial stain removers, carburetor cleaner, you name it, I tried it. I sent one of my stained scraps to the dry cleaners and had them work on t. I did a ton of research on the internet and tried everything everyone else recommended. Nothing worked. I finally stumbled across a law enforcement website that recommends you sign things like checks and legal documents in gel ink, because bad guys can't bleach your signature out, no matter how hard they try. That was it for me - if the professional crooks can't get gel ink out, then nobody can!
The responses DOTTYMO got from Pilot are in blue; the responses Jenny Lyon got from Pilot are in green.
Originally Posted by DOTTYMO
Yes we do recommend them for use on fabric.
I called the Pilot pen company and asked for a representative knowledgeable about Frixion pens and their use on fabric. She was quick to note that Frixion pens were not designed to be used on fabric!
Originally Posted by DOTTYMO
The thermo-sensitive ink turns invisible when it is heated.
The Frixion ink is actually a combination of two things: gel ink, and a thermo ink. The addition of the thermo ink is what makes the gel ink disappear with heat. But note, Frixion pens are basically gel pens with some added thermo ink. That means that you are putting gel ink on your quilt when using Frixion pens.
Originally Posted by DOTTYMO
If your quilt is exposed to this kind to temperature and the ink does return, you would need to simply iron the quilt work or put it on a radiator and the ink will again disappear.
Because so many customers were using Frixion pens on fabric, Pilot did some testing to try to remove the stains. She noted that just like removing any other ink stain, sometimes you would need to spot scrub to remove the mark.
Originally Posted by DOTTYMO
Also, as the ink is water based and not permanent washing the quilt on a couple of occasions is likely to remove the ink anyway
(see above quote re: washing ink out)
That ink will disappear only because of the thermo ink - the gel ink is still there on your quilt unless you take additional steps to remove it.
Jenny Lyon's post has information about what products to use and how to use them to remove the ink.
Here's what I take from Jenny Lyon's conversation with the Pilot rep she talked to:
1. Frixion pens combine gel ink and thermo ink. You are marking your quilt with a gel pen that disappears.
2. The marks will reappear if the quilt gets cold unless the mark is completely removed with an ink remover. Even after a thorough steam of the marks, they will reappear in the cold. This is part of the inherent chemistry of the ink combination.
3. To completely remove the ink so that it will not ghost or reappear in the cold, you will need an ink remover and also may possibly need to scrub the area. The manufacturer has tested 2 products (see Jenny's post) and found them to be fairly effective in removing the ink.
4. Frixion pens sometimes leave a ghost mark after steaming. This is the thermo ink showing on the quilt, not the gel. The Pilot rep said to rid the piece of ghost marks you would need to treat it with the ink removers listed above.
P.S. A personal word about gel ink:
I had a bad experience a few years ago with gel ink. My husband dropped a gel pen on a very expensive business dress shirt and didn't realize it for several minutes. The ink wicked into the cotton and made a huge blot about 3" in diameter. I didn't want to experiment with stain removers on his dress shirt, so I replicated several stains on some scrap cotton and tested various removal methods to find the best one. I tried EVERYTHING. Bleach, hair spray, 4 different commercial stain removers, carburetor cleaner, you name it, I tried it. I sent one of my stained scraps to the dry cleaners and had them work on t. I did a ton of research on the internet and tried everything everyone else recommended. Nothing worked. I finally stumbled across a law enforcement website that recommends you sign things like checks and legal documents in gel ink, because bad guys can't bleach your signature out, no matter how hard they try. That was it for me - if the professional crooks can't get gel ink out, then nobody can!
Last edited by Peckish; 08-14-2015 at 09:59 AM.
08-14-2015, 12:36 PM
#32
Power Poster
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Southern USA
Posts: 15,965
It's very frustrating to have conversations with other quilters and have them
completely miss this point when I tell them the marks come back if the quilt gets cold.
08-14-2015, 01:13 PM
#33
Super Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Maine-ly Florida
Posts: 3,917
Peckish - thanks for posting the link to the Facebook post. It was very timely and informative. I do feel badly for the poor quilt shop person who got their quilt sent back. That was a hard lesson to learn.
08-15-2015, 03:32 AM
#34
Super Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,688
Originally Posted by Peckish
08-15-2015, 06:25 AM
#36
Super Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,165
I've had ghosting on Kona. I didn't like it.
Just out or curiosity- what were the dates on both conversations? Has Frixion put out any new pens since the original question? I think I've seen references to new fine points.
(I've had better luck with the red and blue markers rather than the black)
There's also a pretty good thread on this forum about Crayola Ultra Washable markers. What does the mfg say about those?
Made for cloth or not, some pens, like the blue washout marker, will leave brown stains behind. If the purple doesn't air erase, you can wash it out. The problem with both of these markers is they dry out too fast.
Just out or curiosity- what were the dates on both conversations? Has Frixion put out any new pens since the original question? I think I've seen references to new fine points.
(I've had better luck with the red and blue markers rather than the black)
There's also a pretty good thread on this forum about Crayola Ultra Washable markers. What does the mfg say about those?
Made for cloth or not, some pens, like the blue washout marker, will leave brown stains behind. If the purple doesn't air erase, you can wash it out. The problem with both of these markers is they dry out too fast.
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