OK - here is the dilemma. I am browsing on sites, reading this forum, looking at quilting magazines and I happen to see a quilt that is just SO pretty, I am dying to make it. I also notice that I can purchase a kit in order to make this wonderful quilt.

However, I am a pretty experienced quilter, I know the design, I calculate my own yardage, and I don't need directions. However - do I still have to buy the kit?

Now note that I would not sell the quilt after I make it. And I KNOW that we need to support quilt businesses so they can stay in business. But I wouldn't use the kit, so why am I paying for it?

So lets hear your opinions!

I would look thru some of the old books that have blocks and see if the main block (s) is there. If so, then you should be ok doing your own thing. If it's an art quilt and you will draw stuff, I think that gets iffy.

You could contact the designer and ask if it is available as pattern only. You don't necessarily have to like the colors or fabrics on a kit and should be free to still make the quilt supporting the quilt industry. I don't like to be imposed colors when purchasing kits. On the other hand, many people like to be guided and when they see a quilt they want to make an exact replica.

I copy stuff all of the time. I rarely purchase a pattern (think I have 2x). Most of the time traditional blocks are used in commercial patterns, that is why we like them!

I do not take pictures of others stuff to copy, just remember what I saw and draw it out on graph paper when I get home, so who knows if it is a copy? I will usually throw in extra stuff like pinwheels, ect to personalize it anyway.

What if the pattern is a well known block, but the color scheme is what makes it different? Trouble is there are SO many ways you can vary the look of the block by the color selection,what makes it proprietary?

No you don't have to buy the kit . Anyone can make any quilt any way they want to as long as you don't advertise it as "yours" Does that make sense ?

Many designer just want the recognition. If you use one of Marcia's patterns(Quilter's Cache) all she requires is that you acknowledge that you used one of her original patterns.

So I can put the provence on the back with an indelible marker? (I always do this to acknowledge at least the pattern and where i got it)

Boy, there have been many discussions on this here!!! Look in the search area. Plan on being able to spend a lot of time reading!! Topics were very interesting.

I acknowledge if I did pick up on someone else's idea, for sure. I have a Frank Lloyd Wright in the works now, and you can bet I am going to acknowledge him. (I am not worried he is gonna get me, LOL, I just think it is right)

I too do a lot of browsing and looking at quilts and almost all the time I can figure out how it was made. I wouldn't copy a truly original design and say it was my own but, as one person said, a lot of quilts are made up of traditional blocks put together in a different way or use of color.

Something I found interesting is that in EQ6 all of the blocks are not copywrite (unless you install an add-on by a specific designer) and they can be used any way you want to. You could say that it was inspired by a certain design.

I do purchase patterns too.

maybe you can make a change here and there and also give credit on the back for the inspiration. this sounds like a copyright question.

I think it would be unethical to make any money off it without buying the kit. I would give credit by saying it was inspired by_____________.

Unless you sell it, or put it in a show to turn a profit, who would care? I have yet to enter a "real" show, but always give credit where it is due.

Again, I just think that is the right thing to do. However if I am using a technique that I learned somewhere else to reproduce my own photograph, ect I do not feel the need to give credit.

I can see the label now, it would look like an acceptance speech from the Oscars.

I would like to thank Steam a Seam, and Coats and Clark, and Kodak, and Benartex, and my mother, I love you Mom!

However, I will put inspired by the stained glass windows designed by Frank Lloyd Wright. Or Quilter's Cache, ect.

I am fairly new to quilting, so there may be a protocol I am not familiar with, but I am not new to sewing. I often copied clothes that I had seen when I sew for myself. I never even thought about it being wrong. As long as you don't sell it or claim you created the design, I would think it would be just fine. I will be reading the answers you get though. It may very well be that I am way wrong here.

What she said. :thumbup:

If the pattern is also printed in the magazine as well as offered as a kit, you could just buy a back issue of the magazine, which, of course you probably already know. If it's only as a kit then I guess you're out of luck! These are such "iffy" situations! Anybody know a lawyer or expert that could give us a "tute" on these laws?

It does get sticky -

hexagons inspired by a bee's honey comb -

tiles from thousands of years ago -

a design inspired by a kaleidoscope -

a landscape quilt inspired by the landscape -

haven't seen many designers crediting "God" or "the Creator"

where does the "original" concept come from?

Tile from my bathroom floor. I say make it......LOL!

As long as you are not going to sell it, make it & maybe include the place of inspiration on the label. And no you do not need to buy a pattern or a kit if you can make it without one. To a point, this can only get as sticky as you allow it. Are you going to take a pic & have it published all over the place claiming it is your design? No. So okay, anyone can make a block or quilt if it is an easy one to do or is out there somewhere for all to see & figure out for themselves. Make it & enjoy. My 1/2 a cent may be wrong but geesh this just gets my goat at times & gets carried too far. LOL

[quote=JNCT14]OK -

I am a pretty experienced quilter, I know the design, I calculate my own yardage, and I don't need directions. However - do I still have to buy the kit?
Now note that I would not sell the quilt after I make it.

You're under no obligation to buy the kit, nor to seek permission. Go ahead and make it. The only way you'd be in trouble is if you tried to sell it or a picture of it was published or perhaps, if it was entered in a show.
If it assuages your feeling of wrongdoing, ask if the pattern is available and if it is buy it.

Right on.

this is definitely a copyright issue.

if it is an original design, or a truly original way of using traditional blocks that you would never have thought up on your own then you would be very wrong to copy the quilt - regardless of whether or not you try to sell it or use it in a show/competition. it may be "merely" unethical, or actually illegal, or both.

making a few changes here and there does not change somebody else's design into your design. that's a myth.

if the design is protected by copyright your opinion as to whether or not you should be allowed to do as you please is irrelevant. the law is the law is the law. and it's wrong to break the law, whether you agree with that law or not.

put yourself in the designer's shoes. she's trying to make a living. copying somebody else's orginal, protected work without their consent is stealing. plain and simple.

you are obviously concerned and want to do the right thing. good for you. :thumbup:

if you want to make the quilt but don't want to buy the kit, pay the designer the courtesy of asking her permission to replicate it or for a way to buy a legal copy of the pattern.

I agree, Patrice. Copy is copy no matter what you plan to do with it, how much you change it. The law is there to protect people from losing credit and money for a creation they have made.

Here is something I found on quilt.com that tells the laws surrounding copyright and applied to quilting.

http://www.quilt.com/FAQS/CopyrightFAQ.html

But see, the part I don't get:
Quilts are not numbered (1,2,3,4) like sewing machines, cars, etc.
Quilts are fabric cut into squares and/or shapes. There are a billion, zillion patterns putting these shapes and squares into a determined parameter.
Is there even a rule of thumb someone less than an attorney can use to know if they are free to sew the pattern for their use, to gift or to sell? What is the rule.
I read the 'free' pattern and see it on their website. At the bottom it notes copyrighted. Then it gives the 'printer friendly version' option. Do I need to get their permission to print or does the 'printer friendly version' option constitute permission for me to have a free copy?
I buy a pattern and create a quilt from the purchased pattern. Does the pattern tell me it is to be made for personal use only not for gifting or sale?
How do I know the pattern I purcashed is not a duplicate of someone else's pattern who was a duplicate of someone else's pattern. ???????
It makes me crazy trying to understand it.

Just because a kit is available doesn't mean it is a copyrighted design. Most of the quilts in magazines are there to advertise the fabric from a specific company. In fact one magazine rep told me that one of their magazines is for that purpose only. Look at the design. Is it truly original or just a rearrangement of traditional designs. A copyright attorney told me you cant copyright three rectangles put together.
I looked through a couple dozen quilt magazines recently looking for a specific article. I was amazed at how unoriginal the quilts were. They were just to show off a specific fabric.

the law sounds complicated but the underlying issue is actually very simple. it's a concept taught in the earliest grades.

math has been math for centuries. the correct answer to a test question is the same no matter who figures it out. but get caught copying from the kid at the next desk and you'll find out how fast the teacher can plaster a big red "F" on your paper.

once you get a legal copy of a pattern you may do pretty much what you please with whatever you make from it. a lot of designers mistakenly believe they can tell you what you can and can't do with the finished product, but they are incorrect. obviously, you couldn't claim to have designed it yourself. obviously, you couldn't enter it into any show or contest that requires entries to be the original work of the entree. and you definitely can't claim to have written the instructions and created the illustrations yourself. but if you're allowed to enter things designed by others, and you give full and proper credit where it's due, then you are still doing the right thing.

when patterns are made available for free, they are still protected. the designer/magazine/site is offering you the opportunity to print a copy for yourself to use. if you want to share it with friends, don't give them prints or copies of yours. tell them to go to the same website (or other source) you went to so they can get their own.

you cannot control other people. when you set out to do the right thing, the right thing will usually get done. ;-)

Most of the issues of copy right are related to selling the pattern or the items made from the pattern. If you are using it yourself, or giving one away as a gift, it is generally not a problem. A lot of patterns lately are just made of blocks in general circulation, just placed differently, and made with specific fabrics. If you copy the quilt (i.e. using the same blocks and same placement and same fabric), and plan to sell it, that's not good. If you are going to copy the placement of blocks that you already know, using your own fabric selection, and are keeping it for personal use, that's probably OK.

Just don't claim it as your own "original" design. As all the discussion above, it's the "original" concept that people get so worked up about.

Ok, maybe I'm dense, but I thought copywrite meant you could not copy, but if you buy a pattern, are you not buying it with the intention of making said pattern, with or without the same fabric. If we can't make the pattern with or without same fabric, why would it be for sale?

Since you aren't going to profit from the quilt, I see no problem. I see so many quilts that are a combination of blocks I've seen in others, just a different arrangement.If I see something that appeals to me and I can make something very similar without a pattern, who is hurt? ;)

Ditter

I will do as I have always done, if I copy my own photo, it is original, as far as I am concerned. It is not unususal for me to mix it my own original things with traditional blocks and then throw in some paper piecing just to mix it up some.

Be it right or wrong, if you can figure it out yourself go for it! I would/have and will again I'm sure!

Wow, is it illegal to make something after you saw it? I do that all the time! we'll have to wear extra clothes to bed, cuz' there won't be any bed covers at my place!

IMHO you are never obligated to buy the kit...I can usually look at a block and decide if I can figure out the measurements.

From the U.S. Copyright Office: "Copyright does not protect ideas, concepts, systems, or methods of doing something. You may express your ideas in writing or drawings and claim copyright in your description, but be aware that copyright will not protect the idea itself as revealed in your written or artistic work."

As a designer myself... I agree. There are many traditional quilt blocks that have been around for centuries (that in itself places them in the public domain). Not only that, you can find certain designs in different cultures. Who is to say who came up with the idea first? Ideas are in fact a part of our collective consciousness as the human race.

In this case, what is protected is the kit itself, along with its instructions. This has happened to me several times with tutorials. The objective of a tutorial is to teach something... a method or idea. If somebody takes that idea and turns around and teaches it to somebody else, that is fair game. What that person cannot do is take my written instructions and photos/illustrations and use them as her/his own.

Does this help? I do think it is too bad that this whole copyright issue has tended to make quilters a little paranoid. Even though I design myself, I certainly wouldn't want fellow quilters to feel stifled about letting their own creativity lose! However, when in doubt, it is always best to ask. Even though designers do not always have things clear, either.

If you Google "copyright" you will find many articles covering the topic that might shed some light for you.

If I could do it like you said you could then I would make it. I don't see a thing wrong with making it. I am making my first quilt from a kit, I like the colors, the instructions are lousy and not enough of them. I won't buy another and make up lots of my quilts and don't know or worry about whether someone has made them or not. If you don't sell it, who will know?

If I could do it like you said you could then I would make it. I don't see a thing wrong with making it. I am making my first quilt from a kit, I like the colors, the instructions are lousy and not enough of them. I won't buy another and make up lots of my quilts and don't know or worry about whether someone has made them or not. If you don't sell it, who will know?

If your not selling it u don't have to worry. Also who to say if u bought the kit and used different material. I have bought kits I like and made the quilt and then turned around and made another with different material, but if selling the pattern will say from the author...not to be made and resold it's a no no. A lot of embroidery designs are like that. I don't buy them, who wants to make something and then don't have the option to sell it. I always check the fine print.

When we (guildmembers) enter a quilt in a show, as long as you change the title of the pattern, but give the designer the credit we were told that is okay. If you think about it all pattern blocks from the "old days" are still used, different names for the same block.

Hardly anything is original in the quilting arena. Even original designs take their elements from common techniques and shaping. You can't copyright flying geese or half square triangles but you can copyright the intructions you write for your quilt.