The recent topic of do you pay over x amount has gotten me to thinking.
09-08-2010, 04:16 AM
#41
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by Longarm
Hi Earthwalker,
I just wanted you to know that sometimes I feel like I am on a soapbox when I start going on about exporting jobs instead of being made in our respective countrys. Buying local has gotten to be a joke for most items, when even candy mints are imported from somewhere else to the US. Last package I purchased came from Mexico.
No wonder fabric is so expensive, the shipping and handling charges have gone out of sight.
Thanks for listening to my gripe.
Longarm
I just wanted you to know that sometimes I feel like I am on a soapbox when I start going on about exporting jobs instead of being made in our respective countrys. Buying local has gotten to be a joke for most items, when even candy mints are imported from somewhere else to the US. Last package I purchased came from Mexico.
No wonder fabric is so expensive, the shipping and handling charges have gone out of sight.
Thanks for listening to my gripe.
Longarm
There are entirely too many profiteers involved in that operational food chain. When the jobs go abroad people must be allowed to buy in foreign countries without paying duties. In this global economy, duties are not due.
I get really red hot under the collar about this issue. If there is globalization then it should apply to the consumer as well.
I am going for a soap box now.
09-08-2010, 05:59 AM
#42
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 327
Originally Posted by Aussie Quilter
Originally Posted by Rosyhf
Since I brought up the wool. I am now curious how much wool cost in Australia, since a lot of it is made there. How much does a four oz hank cost? I do knit too and must pay at least 9.00 for 4 oz of wool.
I buy wool direct from Bendigo Woollen Mills. 200 gm balls (about 7 oz) of 12 ply are $11.95 - Patons Jet 12 ply is $6.95 for a 50gm ball. Aran jumper for DS cost me about $60. The mill also has free postage for orders over $30.
09-08-2010, 06:32 AM
#43
Super Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Galveston Texas
Posts: 1,596
Originally Posted by Cuilteanna
Originally Posted by BellaBoo
I'm just guessing here but it seems that someone overseas could order lots of fabric from say Hancock's of Paducah as a customer sell it for $2 over the cost per yard over what it cost them and sell it out of their home and make a profit. Travel to guilds/groups in the area and sell it to sewers.
Long ago a friend of a friend used to sell fabric her husband would bring her back from business trips to the US. She charged just over her cost, but you had to be a friend and have the same taste in fabrics as herself!
Fabric.com does ship internationally, as do many of the other online sites like Fabric Depot, Hancocks of Paducah, Keepsake Quilting, Erica's (those are just some I've used over the years). Global Priority envelopes used to slide through most frequently and I sometimes had an order in less than a week! Those were the good days before money was such an issue, LOL.
Now I mainly do mini's, table runners, wallhangings or lap quilts (which are quilted on to a fleece blanket instead of batting and backing, which saves a LOT of money!)
We have not decided which country we will be flying into, but do all countries (England, Ireland, France) tax things I, a US citizen, would bring in for my personal use or for gifts for my quilter friends. Is there an amount you can bring in without being taxed. In the US you can bring back $600 worth of merchandie without being taxed.
I am asking a lot of questions because I don't see how they can tax me on personal property I'm bringing in. This may be a quilting vacation for me.
This upsets me that a few yards are likely to be taxed.
09-08-2010, 06:58 AM
#44
Super Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Orchard Park, NY (near Buffalo, which is near Niagara Falls)
Posts: 3,884
[quote=moonwolf23I know Connecting threads is cheaper because they cut off the middle men. Why don't the LQS's you guys have get together and find out who they are and maybe do one big order, which they can do if they combine their orders?
Or something along that lines. Not sure.[/quote]
I'm not sure just what middle men it is that they're cutting out. If you mean the distributor... well, I can tell you first hand that buying directly from the manufacturer (a.k.a. textile converter) might save you 25 cents a yard if that. (Basically that's enough to cover the cost of freight.) Ditto buying in huge quantities. If you buy 3000 yards (a full printing) you will probably get a 25 cent discount. As to pooling the orders... the manufacturers are not going to consider it a "pooled order" if they have to ship the goods out to dozens or hundreds of little shops. Therefore, somebody would have to take charge, receive one large shipment from the manufacturer, and then break it up into all those small shipments. Guess what? That's exactly what a distributor does! So maybe you can't really eliminate *this* middle man after all.
If the middle man that's being cut out is the textile converter... that means you'll have to do your own contracts with the mills. There's only one that I know of that prints here in the US, and that's Santee. Other than that... well, you'll need to speak Chinese, Japanese, or Korean, because that's where the majority of the fabrics are all printed. Plus you'll have to be knowledgeable about international commerce and all the laws that come into play when you're importing goods. I think this is outside of the area of expertise for most of us, even those of us who own/manage businesses.
Oh, and by the way... most fabric manufacturers do let shops buy on a net-60 basis, meaning they are willing to take the risk and ship the goods, but wait 60 days to be paid. Who's going to manage this problem and assume this risk, for consolidated orders from many shops? Who'll do the credit check to reduce that risk? Or is it cash-up-front only?
Some things are not as simple and straightforward as we might wish.
Or something along that lines. Not sure.[/quote]
I'm not sure just what middle men it is that they're cutting out. If you mean the distributor... well, I can tell you first hand that buying directly from the manufacturer (a.k.a. textile converter) might save you 25 cents a yard if that. (Basically that's enough to cover the cost of freight.) Ditto buying in huge quantities. If you buy 3000 yards (a full printing) you will probably get a 25 cent discount. As to pooling the orders... the manufacturers are not going to consider it a "pooled order" if they have to ship the goods out to dozens or hundreds of little shops. Therefore, somebody would have to take charge, receive one large shipment from the manufacturer, and then break it up into all those small shipments. Guess what? That's exactly what a distributor does! So maybe you can't really eliminate *this* middle man after all.
If the middle man that's being cut out is the textile converter... that means you'll have to do your own contracts with the mills. There's only one that I know of that prints here in the US, and that's Santee. Other than that... well, you'll need to speak Chinese, Japanese, or Korean, because that's where the majority of the fabrics are all printed. Plus you'll have to be knowledgeable about international commerce and all the laws that come into play when you're importing goods. I think this is outside of the area of expertise for most of us, even those of us who own/manage businesses.
Oh, and by the way... most fabric manufacturers do let shops buy on a net-60 basis, meaning they are willing to take the risk and ship the goods, but wait 60 days to be paid. Who's going to manage this problem and assume this risk, for consolidated orders from many shops? Who'll do the credit check to reduce that risk? Or is it cash-up-front only?
Some things are not as simple and straightforward as we might wish.
09-08-2010, 07:10 AM
#45
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 327
[quote=Favorite Fabrics]
I'm not sure just what middle men it is that they're cutting out. If you mean the distributor... well, I can tell you first hand that buying directly from the manufacturer (a.k.a. textile converter) might save you 25 cents a yard if that. (Basically that's enough to cover the cost of freight.) Ditto buying in huge quantities. If you buy 3000 yards (a full printing) you will probably get a 25 cent discount. As to pooling the orders... the manufacturers are not going to consider it a "pooled order" if they have to ship the goods out to dozens or hundreds of little shops. Therefore, somebody would have to take charge, receive one large shipment from the manufacturer, and then break it up into all those small shipments. Guess what? That's exactly what a distributor does! So maybe you can't really eliminate *this* middle man after all.
If the middle man that's being cut out is the textile converter... that means you'll have to do your own contracts with the mills. There's only one that I know of that prints here in the US, and that's Santee. Other than that... well, you'll need to speak Chinese, Japanese, or Korean, because that's where the majority of the fabrics are all printed. Plus you'll have to be knowledgeable about international commerce and all the laws that come into play when you're importing goods. I think this is outside of the area of expertise for most of us, even those of us who own/manage businesses.
Oh, and by the way... most fabric manufacturers do let shops buy on a net-60 basis, meaning they are willing to take the risk and ship the goods, but wait 60 days to be paid. Who's going to manage this problem and assume this risk, for consolidated orders from many shops? Who'll do the credit check to reduce that risk? Or is it cash-up-front only?
Some things are not as simple and straightforward as we might wish.
Most Koreans and Japanese speak English. So that may not be as big an issue as we think.
Yes connecting threads the last time I looked ordered directly from the mills. One of the big reasons they can offer fabric at 5 dollars a yard to under it as well.
No reason we can't in the U.s as a shop take a look at mills themselves to save our customers money, or even internationally.
Originally Posted by moonwolf23I know Connecting threads is cheaper because they cut off the middle men. Why don't the LQS's you guys have get together and find out who they are and maybe do one big order, which they can do if they combine their orders?
Or something along that lines. Not sure.[/quote
Or something along that lines. Not sure.[/quote
I'm not sure just what middle men it is that they're cutting out. If you mean the distributor... well, I can tell you first hand that buying directly from the manufacturer (a.k.a. textile converter) might save you 25 cents a yard if that. (Basically that's enough to cover the cost of freight.) Ditto buying in huge quantities. If you buy 3000 yards (a full printing) you will probably get a 25 cent discount. As to pooling the orders... the manufacturers are not going to consider it a "pooled order" if they have to ship the goods out to dozens or hundreds of little shops. Therefore, somebody would have to take charge, receive one large shipment from the manufacturer, and then break it up into all those small shipments. Guess what? That's exactly what a distributor does! So maybe you can't really eliminate *this* middle man after all.
If the middle man that's being cut out is the textile converter... that means you'll have to do your own contracts with the mills. There's only one that I know of that prints here in the US, and that's Santee. Other than that... well, you'll need to speak Chinese, Japanese, or Korean, because that's where the majority of the fabrics are all printed. Plus you'll have to be knowledgeable about international commerce and all the laws that come into play when you're importing goods. I think this is outside of the area of expertise for most of us, even those of us who own/manage businesses.
Oh, and by the way... most fabric manufacturers do let shops buy on a net-60 basis, meaning they are willing to take the risk and ship the goods, but wait 60 days to be paid. Who's going to manage this problem and assume this risk, for consolidated orders from many shops? Who'll do the credit check to reduce that risk? Or is it cash-up-front only?
Some things are not as simple and straightforward as we might wish.
Yes connecting threads the last time I looked ordered directly from the mills. One of the big reasons they can offer fabric at 5 dollars a yard to under it as well.
No reason we can't in the U.s as a shop take a look at mills themselves to save our customers money, or even internationally.
09-08-2010, 07:15 AM
#46
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 573
Originally Posted by LittleMo
This could be an explanation of why the fabric is so expensive in all places other than the US. I hope it makes sense.
I used to work for a company that exported drinking glasses to Europe and USA from Australia. They had to do huge manufacturing runs to fill the orders from around the world. The more glasses that were made, the less each glass cost, although we in Australia paid less per glass than the exported glasses. Now applying this to fabric, the bigger the yardage of fabric the manufacturer makes, the cheaper it is to make per yard, and the cheaper it is to buy. I would assume that the higher prices in the overseas market (the rest of the world) is subsidising the lower prices of the domestic market (USA), in the same way the glasses we exported did.
Still with me? :D So when the fabric manufacturer makes x amount for the domestic market, and x amount for the overseas market, the overseas markets subsidise the domestic market. Even accounting for freight and import duty, a difference of $10.00+ per metre retail seems over the top.
The import duty on fabric into Australia has dropped by 30% in the last 12 years, but we are not paying 30% less for our fabric.
And while I am on a roll:
My LQS owner was complaining to me that her purchase price on a particular line of fabric was more than what Spotlight was charging retail for the exactly the same line. She had to place her order over 12 months ago. What the importer had left over (orders not honoured?) was offered to Spotlight at a bargain basement price. Any why not, the importer had already made his money from all the LQS's. It sure made the LQS owner look greedy, but she could not match the Spotlight price without losing money.
Someone is making alot of money, but it is not the LQS owners. By the time we buy fabric, it has been through alot of middle men each wanting to take their cut.
I used to work for a company that exported drinking glasses to Europe and USA from Australia. They had to do huge manufacturing runs to fill the orders from around the world. The more glasses that were made, the less each glass cost, although we in Australia paid less per glass than the exported glasses. Now applying this to fabric, the bigger the yardage of fabric the manufacturer makes, the cheaper it is to make per yard, and the cheaper it is to buy. I would assume that the higher prices in the overseas market (the rest of the world) is subsidising the lower prices of the domestic market (USA), in the same way the glasses we exported did.
Still with me? :D So when the fabric manufacturer makes x amount for the domestic market, and x amount for the overseas market, the overseas markets subsidise the domestic market. Even accounting for freight and import duty, a difference of $10.00+ per metre retail seems over the top.
The import duty on fabric into Australia has dropped by 30% in the last 12 years, but we are not paying 30% less for our fabric.
And while I am on a roll:
My LQS owner was complaining to me that her purchase price on a particular line of fabric was more than what Spotlight was charging retail for the exactly the same line. She had to place her order over 12 months ago. What the importer had left over (orders not honoured?) was offered to Spotlight at a bargain basement price. Any why not, the importer had already made his money from all the LQS's. It sure made the LQS owner look greedy, but she could not match the Spotlight price without losing money.
Someone is making alot of money, but it is not the LQS owners. By the time we buy fabric, it has been through alot of middle men each wanting to take their cut.
09-08-2010, 07:16 AM
#47
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Eidson, TN
Posts: 559
To all the Americans on here, the comments about the various countries V.A.T. (Value Added Taxes) are a HUGE reason why we DON'T want Obama's VAT proposal to go through! We love our comparatively inexpensive fabric prices, but if that VAT tax passes, then our prices will jump tremendously as well, and it won't just be our fabrics, it will be our threads, needles, machines, everything.
Not to make this political, but I just wanted to throw that out there as a warning that we'll be headed the same way soon...
Not to make this political, but I just wanted to throw that out there as a warning that we'll be headed the same way soon...
09-08-2010, 07:17 AM
#48
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 327
Originally Posted by cattailsquilts
To all the Americans on here, the comments about the various countries V.A.T. (Value Added Taxes) are a HUGE reason why we DON'T want Obama's VAT proposal to go through! We love our comparatively inexpensive fabric prices, but if that VAT tax passes, then our prices will jump tremendously as well, and it won't just be our fabrics, it will be our threads, needles, machines, everything.
Not to make this political, but I just wanted to throw that out there as a warning that we'll be headed the same way soon...
Not to make this political, but I just wanted to throw that out there as a warning that we'll be headed the same way soon...
The V.A.T may need a topic all of it's own. Why not start it?
09-08-2010, 07:18 AM
#49
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 80
[quote=Favorite Fabrics]
I'm not sure just what middle men it is that they're cutting out. If you mean the distributor... well, I can tell you first hand that buying directly from the manufacturer (a.k.a. textile converter) might save you 25 cents a yard if that. (Basically that's enough to cover the cost of freight.) Ditto buying in huge quantities. If you buy 3000 yards (a full printing) you will probably get a 25 cent discount. As to pooling the orders... the manufacturers are not going to consider it a "pooled order" if they have to ship the goods out to dozens or hundreds of little shops. Therefore, somebody would have to take charge, receive one large shipment from the manufacturer, and then break it up into all those small shipments. Guess what? That's exactly what a distributor does! So maybe you can't really eliminate *this* middle man after all.
If the middle man that's being cut out is the textile converter... that means you'll have to do your own contracts with the mills. There's only one that I know of that prints here in the US, and that's Santee. Other than that... well, you'll need to speak Chinese, Japanese, or Korean, because that's where the majority of the fabrics are all printed. Plus you'll have to be knowledgeable about international commerce and all the laws that come into play when you're importing goods. I think this is outside of the area of expertise for most of us, even those of us who own/manage businesses.
Oh, and by the way... most fabric manufacturers do let shops buy on a net-60 basis, meaning they are willing to take the risk and ship the goods, but wait 60 days to be paid. Who's going to manage this problem and assume this risk, for consolidated orders from many shops? Who'll do the credit check to reduce that risk? Or is it cash-up-front only?
Some things are not as simple and straightforward as we might wish.
You are absolutely right. There is nothing wrong with being adequately paid for services rendered.
Most shops calculate 10 % defaults on payment into the price (that means the consumer pays it in the end).
Here is where my anger knows no bounds:
How does anybody arrive at prices of US$ 10 - 20 when cotton growers get paid pennies per pound of cotton? How do you explain that the costs of printing are also only pennies/yard because poor people in so-called under-developed countries must eat and therefore agree to work for any kind of wages?
Somewhere in this unnecessarily long chain of many people with both their hands open to receive and the few people who provide genuine services, at some point in this chain of profit takers pennies turn into dollars.
I would be content paying reasonable prices (US$5 - 6/yard) for today's excellent cotton fabric if - and this is the BIG "IF" - if the people who actually grow the cotton and then know how to do the printing using the hard-earned skills of thousands of years - IF they would get at least half of that price.
That would leave enough for doing all those services you talked about in your post. Anybody can do those services. They don't require special skills like growing cotton and creating the end product.
Somewhere in this long chain of paid services the people with the least skills have managed to siphon off the most money.
How about some solidarity with those people who actually create the product? They need some advocates. Who should sympathize with them if not quilters who know the value of good work.
Originally Posted by moonwolf23I know Connecting threads is cheaper because they cut off the middle men. Why don't the LQS's you guys have get together and find out who they are and maybe do one big order, which they can do if they combine their orders?
Or something along that lines. Not sure.[/quote
Or something along that lines. Not sure.[/quote
I'm not sure just what middle men it is that they're cutting out. If you mean the distributor... well, I can tell you first hand that buying directly from the manufacturer (a.k.a. textile converter) might save you 25 cents a yard if that. (Basically that's enough to cover the cost of freight.) Ditto buying in huge quantities. If you buy 3000 yards (a full printing) you will probably get a 25 cent discount. As to pooling the orders... the manufacturers are not going to consider it a "pooled order" if they have to ship the goods out to dozens or hundreds of little shops. Therefore, somebody would have to take charge, receive one large shipment from the manufacturer, and then break it up into all those small shipments. Guess what? That's exactly what a distributor does! So maybe you can't really eliminate *this* middle man after all.
If the middle man that's being cut out is the textile converter... that means you'll have to do your own contracts with the mills. There's only one that I know of that prints here in the US, and that's Santee. Other than that... well, you'll need to speak Chinese, Japanese, or Korean, because that's where the majority of the fabrics are all printed. Plus you'll have to be knowledgeable about international commerce and all the laws that come into play when you're importing goods. I think this is outside of the area of expertise for most of us, even those of us who own/manage businesses.
Oh, and by the way... most fabric manufacturers do let shops buy on a net-60 basis, meaning they are willing to take the risk and ship the goods, but wait 60 days to be paid. Who's going to manage this problem and assume this risk, for consolidated orders from many shops? Who'll do the credit check to reduce that risk? Or is it cash-up-front only?
Some things are not as simple and straightforward as we might wish.
Most shops calculate 10 % defaults on payment into the price (that means the consumer pays it in the end).
Here is where my anger knows no bounds:
How does anybody arrive at prices of US$ 10 - 20 when cotton growers get paid pennies per pound of cotton? How do you explain that the costs of printing are also only pennies/yard because poor people in so-called under-developed countries must eat and therefore agree to work for any kind of wages?
Somewhere in this unnecessarily long chain of many people with both their hands open to receive and the few people who provide genuine services, at some point in this chain of profit takers pennies turn into dollars.
I would be content paying reasonable prices (US$5 - 6/yard) for today's excellent cotton fabric if - and this is the BIG "IF" - if the people who actually grow the cotton and then know how to do the printing using the hard-earned skills of thousands of years - IF they would get at least half of that price.
That would leave enough for doing all those services you talked about in your post. Anybody can do those services. They don't require special skills like growing cotton and creating the end product.
Somewhere in this long chain of paid services the people with the least skills have managed to siphon off the most money.
How about some solidarity with those people who actually create the product? They need some advocates. Who should sympathize with them if not quilters who know the value of good work.
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