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Thread: What constitutes a 'book'?

  1. #1
    Power Poster Lacelady's Avatar
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    Intrigued by mentions of 'Turning Twenty' patterns, I ordered the book from Amazon. This is a New Edition which is 'the updated version of Tricia's best selling turning Twenty book', plus 5 'Exciting New Quilt Designs'. I am not grumbling about the price, but I suppose I was really expecting something more than 16 pages. Is my thinking unreasonable?

  2. #2
    Power Poster dunster's Avatar
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    I'm so sorry you were disappointed with your purchase! I've also received "books" that I think should be called "patterns" or "pamphlets." I guess if it's bound in some fashion they can call it a book. I've learned to look on Amazon's listing under Product Details to see how many pages there are. That number often determines whether I'll buy the book. I hope you enjoy making the quilt(s) anyway.

  3. #3
    JJs
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    sounds almost as ridiculous as the kaleidoscope pattern 'books'...
    a simple 8 piece pie-sliced block, a pattern that's been around FOREVER... just cut a 'stack' instead of singles and they turn it into some kind of $$$$ big deal...
    I bought a book thinking there was some deep secret about making the kaleidoscope blocks - there's one pattern and a 'bookful' of different quilts made from the pattern.. doh

  4. #4
    Power Poster Lacelady's Avatar
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    Thanks, Dunster. I am not unhappy with the patterns, rather with the description of 'book'. I would have still bought it because I wanted the pattern & associated ideas, and I will definitely be making one of them up in due course. I will take your advice in future and look to see how many pages there are when I am considering buying any more 'books'. I think this one breaks the record for being the thinnest on my book shelves, I shall have to take care not to lose it between some of the others.

  5. #5
    Super Member peaceandjoy's Avatar
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    I agree! I just received two "books" that I'd ordered. Saw items finished with them at a shop last week, but they didn't have the book available as they were so popular. So I ordered them online. Now I love one of them, the other I wouldn't have gotten. My two books, that totalled $45, have less than 20 pages between the two of them! I was a little surprised. Live and learn, I should have checked more carefully. I'd still have gotten the one.

    For anyone who hasn't heard, CT publishing is having a clearance sale on their books online. They are $5 each!. There were about 130 titles yesterday, not all quilting, but I did order three.

  6. #6
    Power Poster BellaBoo's Avatar
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    I noticed the newer quilt books have a lof filler text. The actual instructions take one page so the rest of the pages are filled with non essential fluff. I lose respect for the quilt author for calling a pattern a book. They will not get my money.

  7. #7
    Senior Member AtHomeSewing's Avatar
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    Usually Amazon includes the page count in the Product Details area, but not always. If they did not on this book, why not contact them and tell them you are not happy?

    Also, leave a REVIEW on the item's sales page at Amazon. Tell everyone who is considering this book how you feel about the number of pages. At least that way they can make an informed decision.

  8. #8
    Power Poster Lacelady's Avatar
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    I just checked, and they did quote 17 pages (they included the inside back cover for that extra one), so it's entirely my fault. The 'Book' two doesn't seem to have any number of pages stated, another in the series has 33 pages, and yet another 25 pages.
    As I said earlier, I like the concept, I am just questioning the description of 'book'. Booklet or pamphlet would have been a more accurate description in my opinion.

    As it is, several of the 'books' I have bought recently have less pages than the average quilt magazine, but cost up to four times more.

  9. #9
    Super Member Lisanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lacelady
    I just checked, and they did quote 17 pages (they included the inside back cover for that extra one), so it's entirely my fault.
    I don't know about that. Yes, it clearly states that it's only 17 pages - if you scroll down far enough to see that, if you even think to wonder.

    Why would most people bother to check the page count? If it's listed in Books, and it is, then it should be a book. Seventeen pages is not a book, IMO. At best it's a booklet. Sounds like it's a pattern.

    That said, I guess patterns sell for that much, so it's not actually out of line. It would be nice if they'd label it more accurately so people know what to expect. Guess it's buyer beware. But it's hardly your fault for not thinking to look.

  10. #10
    Power Poster Ninnie's Avatar
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    to me, that is a pamphlet!
    I don't think 16 pages constitutes a book, unless it is for a child!

  11. #11
    Power Poster amma's Avatar
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    Very well put Ninnie!!! My feelings exactly!!!

  12. #12
    Power Poster Lacelady's Avatar
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    As a matter of interest, I checked another book selling site:
    www.abebooks.com They don't have the one I bought, but another in the series, and list that as a pamphlet. Now that I have had this experience, it's just another thing I will check in the future.
    This version I have has '5 exciting new quilt designs' in it, I am left wondering what the original version was like.

  13. #13
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    for me the difference between a book and a pattern is a book teaches you a new technique while a pattern is based on well known techniques.

    typically books devote a few pages to teaching the new technique and then has a few patterns for you to choose from so you can practice and master the new technique.

    so i think both a pattern and a book can be 16 pages and the only thing that would differ is the price.

    if i'm not teaching you anything new than a $6-12 for a pattern is reasonable unless i'm including paper piecing foundations than the price goes up from there since i'm providing product and pattern.

    if i'm teaching a new technique the price would be around $15-$25 depending on how much teaching and patterns are being provided and does that include paper piecing foundations.

    thats how i base my shopping decisions.




  14. #14
    Moderator littlehud's Avatar
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    I have learned a lot from this thread. I would be disappointed to order a "book" and get a 16 page "pamphlet". I guess it's buyer beware. Read all descriptions so you don't get a surprise.

  15. #15
    Super Member peaceandjoy's Avatar
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    One of the two "books" I ordered is specfically meant for use with bali pops, or other 2 1/1" strips. It is 12 pages!

    I'm seriously considering returning it. The cost is $18 ($1.50/page) and to return it would only cost me a couple bucks.

  16. #16
    Super Member Joan's Avatar
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    Yes, I know your frustration. I examine "books" very carefully to ascertain whether there is really any "new" information in the books.

    My favorite site for buying books is:

    http://www.dealoz.com/

    You enter the book title and it does a search for all of the sites and their prices starting with the cheapest price first. I've never paid retail for a book I've purchased online. It has been very helpful.

  17. #17
    Power Poster Lacelady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peaceandjoy
    One of the two "books" I ordered is specfically meant for use with bali pops, or other 2 1/1" strips. It is 12 pages!

    I'm seriously considering returning it. The cost is $18 ($1.50/page) and to return it would only cost me a couple bucks.
    I think that's outrageous! As Klue said, a new technique might be worth it, but with Turning Twenty, I don't consider there to be a different technique really, just an idea for an economical way of cutting out. This 'book' is smaller than several of the Patterns I have, and a lot thinner than a magazine, so I can't think of it as a book, and I don't think it should be marketed as such. I will be keeping mine, but will be really checking out the details in future. For instance, I have just ordered another book, $6.99, and it has 288 pages. That IS a book.

  18. #18
    Power Poster Rhonda's Avatar
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    So I have some questions!!

    What do you want to see in a book from me? What would be your ideas of what to expect from a book?

    I am looking at smaller size with a smaller price. So now is your chance to put in your input so I can address these issues in what I write.

    There will be the new Wings block that Suzi has already played with and shown. And I will include my original designs to use it in a full size quilt in the first one and the second one will be on minis.

    Any suggestions for what you would like to see? How many pages? per a smaller price etc what else anything?

    I am always open to suggestions. I thought since you are all talking about your expectations I would ask.

    I have rolled around the ideas of doing patterns versus ebooks. I didn't come to any conclusion. I also am interested in what you think about what a pattern should be as opposed to what a book should be.

    Content should be worth the price of the book or pattern.

  19. #19
    Power Poster Rhonda's Avatar
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    I don't buy a lot of quilt magazines any more as the content is usually some thing I already have. I can find more inspiration online. The magazines don't really have much new to me anymore.

    I have more fun finding new things here on the board.

  20. #20
    Power Poster Lacelady's Avatar
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    Rhonda, I already have three of your ebooks, 'nuf said, I think. I have liked them all, and tried somthing from each of them. There is plenty of content, some innovative ideas and lots of pics, which I like too. AND I didn't have to pay for shipping! A bonus, when you live in a quilting backwater like Ireland.

    Check the Sept. Doll Quilt swap in a couple of weeks, my latest one incorporates one of your blocks!

  21. #21
    Power Poster Prism99's Avatar
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    I've learned to scroll down and check the number of pages on Amazon. Also often check the size (after getting a paperback that was ridiculously small).

  22. #22
    TX_Cutie's Avatar
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    I have a few quilting books but I bought them all used or in lots on ebay. I find the most helpful quilting info is usually online but I have purchased a few patterns that were too difficult to recreate on my own.

    The books that I have found to be the most helpful included lots of step by step up-close pictures and examples of ways to vary the blocks for different looks.

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