if you make quilts/items to sell- a new developement
11-22-2011, 07:24 AM
#111
Super Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Mena, Arkansas
Posts: 1,351
Originally Posted by Stitchit123
This is so wierd-- As I was waiting for my turn at the cutting table the lady in front of me was buying fleece with sports team logos on them to make Christmas stockings to sell at her Flea Mkt booth.Another lady said what she was doing was illegal and 'Don't you read the selvedge' blah blah blah and she could be arrested I could not help but to lol at that remark. I figure once its purchased its yours to do what you want..I don't read the selvedge other than to make sure the color code is there But from now on I will make sure to not buy any CFs and to let the store know why.
11-22-2011, 07:34 AM
#113
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: WV
Posts: 819
Now that I use XM radio, I no longer buy (tapes) or CD's. When I did, it was for personal use. I couldn't even give a copy away. If I wanted to use the music for a private party it was OK. But if I was paid to D.J., I had to pay royalties on the use of the music. Software programs are the same way. Now fabric. We all like it when we get a positive cash flow, and so do the musicians and designers.
Like many of you, I wonder if it is merely a "royalty" on top of the money they have already gotten for the design, or if it goes to some intangible beyond that. I'd like to know how designers get their payments for their work. My guess is that they receive pay when the original design is accepted, pay for each product use, (scrapbook paper, wall paper, fabric, sheet sets, poster print, etc.), and percentage of each sale of the various products. As for our purposes, fabric, I think the cash flow to the designer should stop when the store buys the fabric. It is easy to trace to that point, and no further. Licensed prints are fairly easy to spot, and an explanation for that use has already been provided. However a somewhat geriatric pattern of leaves, cut into pieces and sewn into a table runner, sold at a flea market or church fundraiser is going a bit far. If you are selling in quantities which requires a business licence, then perhaps the designers could hold you accountable. We really need legal clarification - in layman's terms - on this one.
Like many of you, I wonder if it is merely a "royalty" on top of the money they have already gotten for the design, or if it goes to some intangible beyond that. I'd like to know how designers get their payments for their work. My guess is that they receive pay when the original design is accepted, pay for each product use, (scrapbook paper, wall paper, fabric, sheet sets, poster print, etc.), and percentage of each sale of the various products. As for our purposes, fabric, I think the cash flow to the designer should stop when the store buys the fabric. It is easy to trace to that point, and no further. Licensed prints are fairly easy to spot, and an explanation for that use has already been provided. However a somewhat geriatric pattern of leaves, cut into pieces and sewn into a table runner, sold at a flea market or church fundraiser is going a bit far. If you are selling in quantities which requires a business licence, then perhaps the designers could hold you accountable. We really need legal clarification - in layman's terms - on this one.
11-22-2011, 07:43 AM
#115
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: FL
Posts: 906
Hi CK ---Is "Not for Commercial Use" because they use this fabric for making up quilts for stores like JC Penney, etc??? I don't make anything to sell - my friends and family get my stuff !! :-) There has to be a reason a designer or manufacturer would curtail sales. If I love the fabric, I would still buy it for personal use. Maybe someone out there knows the rest of the story. I'm coming north for Christmas - maybe I can catch you then. Will PM you after Thanksgiving.
11-22-2011, 08:04 AM
#116
Super Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Alabama
Posts: 1,589
Originally Posted by mic-pa
Yep, lets have a moratoriam on buying their fabric. So far I have not seen any but will check for it the next time I go to my LQS>
Originally Posted by Pieces2
If we all stop buying these fabrics maybe the designers will have to change their policy.
I can't believe these designers want to put these restrictions on their fabric.
Let the fabric stay on the shelves, theres always other fabric to purchase.
I can't believe these designers want to put these restrictions on their fabric.
Let the fabric stay on the shelves, theres always other fabric to purchase.
Originally Posted by ptquilts
In addition to not buying the fabric, let the store owners know you are NOT buying that fabric, and WHY.
Originally Posted by BellaBoo
Don't buy that fabric. If it doesn't sell the store will stop ordering it. The designer will have what she wants, her fabric all to herself. LOL.
Last edited by amazon; 11-22-2011 at 08:08 AM.
11-22-2011, 08:31 AM
#117
Super Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,688
This whole ‘not for commercial use’ thing is not new. It goes back to 2006 when Amy Butler and Helen Ross (separately) put commercial use restrictions on their fabrics. Both designers were manufacturing finished products (pajamas, intimate wear, etc) from their fabrics and did not want competitors to benefit from their brand, their name. That, to me, makes sense, but I think they should have taken those particular fabrics off the market and just made them unavailable to everyone.
<O
</O
Butler had eBay take down ALL listings of items made with ANY of her fabrics and the uproar was HUGE. Butler’s company was so slammed by eBay sellers in the press that she changed her policies. She now requires licensing arrangements from her wholesale buyers, but retail purchases are not restricted at all. Ross has also changed her position I understand.
<O</O
These restrictions are not a part of copyright law at all. Contract law, trademark and licensing law? Maybe. Enforceable? Probably not, in my opinion, unless you actually signed an agreement at the time of purchase. If they start printing ‘Licensed fabric - Not for Commercial Use’, that’s when I’ll think about not buying it for use in stuff to sell.
<O</O
Some history:
http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/archives/2006/10/17/restricted_fabrics_cutting_against_the_grain_of_pe rsonal_property.html
<O</O
http://whipup.net/2006/10/23/fabric-copyright-and-licenses-oh-my/
<O
</OButler had eBay take down ALL listings of items made with ANY of her fabrics and the uproar was HUGE. Butler’s company was so slammed by eBay sellers in the press that she changed her policies. She now requires licensing arrangements from her wholesale buyers, but retail purchases are not restricted at all. Ross has also changed her position I understand.
<O
</OThese restrictions are not a part of copyright law at all. Contract law, trademark and licensing law? Maybe. Enforceable? Probably not, in my opinion, unless you actually signed an agreement at the time of purchase. If they start printing ‘Licensed fabric - Not for Commercial Use’, that’s when I’ll think about not buying it for use in stuff to sell.
<O
</OSome history:
http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/archives/2006/10/17/restricted_fabrics_cutting_against_the_grain_of_pe rsonal_property.html
<O
</Ohttp://whipup.net/2006/10/23/fabric-copyright-and-licenses-oh-my/
Last edited by ghostrider; 11-22-2011 at 08:33 AM.
11-22-2011, 08:57 AM
#118
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 35
Originally Posted by QuilterChick
Maybe we should post the names of designers who have this "propriety issue" so we can avoid them.
11-22-2011, 09:06 AM
#119
Super Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,789
Originally Posted by Sheila_H
All I can think of is the vast number of people that quilt - those attorney's would be one busy bunch of people trying to look at every quilt to see if there's an infringement on policy.
My BIL is an attorney I asked him about it tonight and he said unless the company sends a legal notice with each bolt of fabric to the buyer, stating that they have a copyright and need to be notified if someone is going to display it in a show; there really can't say anything. He said about the only time you might get into the gray zone is if you win a large sum of cash you would probably need to notify the manufacturer.
He said that there are a lot of old laws on books out there that have never been amended or updated in years! He said they would have a hard time of them trying to get a judge to hear it in court as they're already overloaded with nonsense
My BIL is an attorney I asked him about it tonight and he said unless the company sends a legal notice with each bolt of fabric to the buyer, stating that they have a copyright and need to be notified if someone is going to display it in a show; there really can't say anything. He said about the only time you might get into the gray zone is if you win a large sum of cash you would probably need to notify the manufacturer.
He said that there are a lot of old laws on books out there that have never been amended or updated in years! He said they would have a hard time of them trying to get a judge to hear it in court as they're already overloaded with nonsense
11-22-2011, 09:30 AM
#120
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Washington State summer, Sun City AZ winter
Posts: 701
I have not seen this on any fabric yet but I sure believe you that it's there! I do not sell things so this wouldn't be an issue for me but I just think I'll not buy any fabric that says that just to boycott the designer/manufacturer--what silliness! With the price of fabric going up, you'd think they would just be happy to make a sale!!! I guess I'll be using up my stash.
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