How do you calm a dog down that is afraid of thunder storms?
04-20-2011, 05:55 PM
#41
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Location: Emmitsburg, MD
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Originally Posted by rushdoggie
Gotta disagree. Fear is an emotion, and you can't reinforce fear. <snip>
You may be right that consoling fear isn't harmful per se. But it also isn't helpful; it does little or nothing to counteract the fear and does not make the dog less likely to have an anxious reaction the next time the same situation occurs. In my experience with rescues, anyway. For years I nurtured the anxiety and never understood why that didn't work. Now, I get it.
Can you imagine someone saying: “Well, I understand that you are frightened, but I’m going to ignore you because any sympathy that I would give you might make you more likely to be frightened if it ever happens again.” I don’t know about you, but that would be my EX friend.
That's what my friends are like, anyway.
Besides, a nighttime break-in poses a very real risk to life and limb; thunder does not.
You can't verbalize and reason with a dog. But you can show him with your calm confidence that you are in control of the situation and THIS is not a time where fear and worry are necessary, or healthy.
However, it sounds like your dog's anxiety was WAY off the charts, and medication in cases like that can be lifesaving. For any extreme anxiety a trip to the vet is in order, just to rule out anything that might stand in the way of homegrown measures.
04-20-2011, 05:56 PM
#42
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Florida
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Originally Posted by lydialee
Originally Posted by lovequilts
My sister has to use Doggie Downer's also .....I love shih tzu's but am alergic to animals.
04-20-2011, 06:18 PM
#43
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JulieR, You have some great advice, however some people look at their pets honestly as children, and they would "never" treat their children in this manner therefore they wont do it to their dog. Yeah they aren't "hurting" the dogs by coddling the bad behaviors, however they are not helping the dog either but they don't get that and never will because its their "child"! and although they don't want to do what it takes to change it they also want to complain about the behaviors they don't like!
I am the type of mother that puts my dogs in a crate at night, and sends my CHILDREN back to bed during a storm. Both the dogs and the kids need to understand that it is nothing that is going to get them! ITS LIFE DEAL WITH IT.
I am the type of mother that puts my dogs in a crate at night, and sends my CHILDREN back to bed during a storm. Both the dogs and the kids need to understand that it is nothing that is going to get them! ITS LIFE DEAL WITH IT.
04-20-2011, 06:33 PM
#44
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Location: Emmitsburg, MD
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Originally Posted by justwannaquilt
JulieR, You have some great advice, however some people look at their pets honestly as children, and they would "never" treat their children in this manner therefore they wont do it to their dog. Yeah they aren't "hurting" the dogs by coddling the bad behaviors, however they are not helping the dog either but they don't get that and never will because its their "child"! and although they don't want to do what it takes to change it they also want to complain about the behaviors they don't like!
I am the type of mother that puts my dogs in a crate at night, and sends my CHILDREN back to bed during a storm. Both the dogs and the kids need to understand that it is nothing that is going to get them! ITS LIFE DEAL WITH IT.
I am the type of mother that puts my dogs in a crate at night, and sends my CHILDREN back to bed during a storm. Both the dogs and the kids need to understand that it is nothing that is going to get them! ITS LIFE DEAL WITH IT.
By the way, I never said to ignore your dog; ignore the behavior you don't like. I give Charlie a down-stay on the floor right next to me and expect him to stay there. That's an active exercise to a dog that wants to pace and hide, and I'm acutely aware of his behavior the whole time. But I don't reward the behavior I don't want - the anxiety.
Just like sending kids back to bed.
Anyway. Time for me to shut up. Sorry for the ramble. :)
04-20-2011, 06:36 PM
#45
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: La Pine, Oregon
Posts: 625
Yes, we use Benedryl, however you must give it at least a half an hour before the storm arrives! It seems to help our little one! She is also a rescue. Poor thing she is scared to death, and oh she also feels better instantly if she sleeps with us! LOL Bless her heart!
04-20-2011, 06:43 PM
#47
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Royse City Texas
Posts: 2,870
Our dog has had this problem from birth - fireworks and thunder made her so upset. She would get into a closet and rearrange the whole thing. Now she is very hard of hearing and all is fine! There are blessings in aging! Nothing worked for her. But I was told to turn music up REAL LOUD and that helps drown out the noise that bothers them...we tried it, but we couldn't stand it! Might be a good idea if you have to leave them alone.
04-20-2011, 07:06 PM
#48
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Pawnee, Ok.
Posts: 420
I agree with every thing you said. I have a dog that starts being afraid before a storm even comes in. The only way she feels safe is in the car, so go out to te garage and she jumps in. I turn the lights on and than I can leave her, she feels safe. I let her stay the nigt and I get some sleep.
Gotta disagree. Fear is an emotion, and you can't reinforce fear. Patricia McConnell explains it far better than I ever could.
Heres the full article: http://www.theotherendoftheleash.com...-thunderstorms
Having owned a truly thunderphobic dog who damaged property (broke windows, ripped the dryer door off trying to get in, destroyed several interior doors) and herself (several broken teeth, cuts from glass, she once ripped off a toenail) trying to escape the thunder, I recommend that you seek the help of a vet experienced in this and use anti anxiety meds like Diazepam and Xanax to lower the fear threshold and gently counter-condition your dog to seek out a safe place: your lap, his crate, the bath tub (I know that sounds weird but I guess a lot of dogs choose the bathtub because the metal changes the charge in the air around it...some dogs stick their heads behind the toilet).
Comforting your dog won't make him more afraid, I promise.
And using drugs doesn't have to be a forever thing...if it helps him its worth trying.
If anyone cares to see it I can send them a longer explanation of how I counter-conditioned Lacey to calm herself and hide in the bathtub.
Originally Posted by rushdoggie
Originally Posted by JulieR
Okay, this is going to sound very unpopular but just hear me out. LOL
DO NOT comfort a dog that is afraid. Don't coddle him, pet him or otherwise try to "love" him better.
Why not? For the same reason that you DO pet him when he does something good: you are telling him that whatever he just did is the right thing to do! So when you pet him while he's panicking in a storm you're telling him he was right - he SHOULD be afraid!
DO NOT comfort a dog that is afraid. Don't coddle him, pet him or otherwise try to "love" him better.
Why not? For the same reason that you DO pet him when he does something good: you are telling him that whatever he just did is the right thing to do! So when you pet him while he's panicking in a storm you're telling him he was right - he SHOULD be afraid!
There are several reasons why that advice is wrong, here’s one of them: Fear is designed to be aversive, that’s why it is an effective way of affecting behavior and keeping animals out of trouble when they encounter something that might hurt them. Fear is aversive enough that no amount of petting or sweet talk is going to make your dog more likely to shiver and shake when she hears thunder rolling as the clouds billow and the rains begin.
Here’s the example for you of how hard it is to “reinforce” fear. What if someone tried break into your home in the middle of the night? Let’s say they did, and after the intruder left, a friend or loved one sat down with you on the couch, brought you tea and gave you a hug. Would the tea and sympathy make you more likely to be afraid if it happened again the next night? Of course not.
Can you imagine someone saying: “Well, I understand that you are frightened, but I’m going to ignore you because any sympathy that I would give you might make you more likely to be frightened if it ever happens again.” I don’t know about you, but that would be my EX friend.
One could criticize this example as one of misplaced anthropomorphism, but the fact is that this process works much the same in dogs as it does in people. The fact is, it is almost impossible to “reinforce fear.” Fear is highly aversive, and if anything, it works in reverse. I suppose, if you did it often enough, you could create an association between thunder and petting that would make your dog afraid of petting, but it is extremely unlikely to go the other way around.
It is true that you can make your dog more afraid than he already is, by doing something yourself that scares him, by forcing him into situations that scare him already or by being afraid yourself. Emotions are contagious, so if you want your dog to be afraid of thunder, then be afraid yourself! But you’re not going to make him more afraid of storms if you stroke his head and tell him it’s going to be okay.
Here’s the example for you of how hard it is to “reinforce” fear. What if someone tried break into your home in the middle of the night? Let’s say they did, and after the intruder left, a friend or loved one sat down with you on the couch, brought you tea and gave you a hug. Would the tea and sympathy make you more likely to be afraid if it happened again the next night? Of course not.
Can you imagine someone saying: “Well, I understand that you are frightened, but I’m going to ignore you because any sympathy that I would give you might make you more likely to be frightened if it ever happens again.” I don’t know about you, but that would be my EX friend.
One could criticize this example as one of misplaced anthropomorphism, but the fact is that this process works much the same in dogs as it does in people. The fact is, it is almost impossible to “reinforce fear.” Fear is highly aversive, and if anything, it works in reverse. I suppose, if you did it often enough, you could create an association between thunder and petting that would make your dog afraid of petting, but it is extremely unlikely to go the other way around.
It is true that you can make your dog more afraid than he already is, by doing something yourself that scares him, by forcing him into situations that scare him already or by being afraid yourself. Emotions are contagious, so if you want your dog to be afraid of thunder, then be afraid yourself! But you’re not going to make him more afraid of storms if you stroke his head and tell him it’s going to be okay.
Having owned a truly thunderphobic dog who damaged property (broke windows, ripped the dryer door off trying to get in, destroyed several interior doors) and herself (several broken teeth, cuts from glass, she once ripped off a toenail) trying to escape the thunder, I recommend that you seek the help of a vet experienced in this and use anti anxiety meds like Diazepam and Xanax to lower the fear threshold and gently counter-condition your dog to seek out a safe place: your lap, his crate, the bath tub (I know that sounds weird but I guess a lot of dogs choose the bathtub because the metal changes the charge in the air around it...some dogs stick their heads behind the toilet).
Comforting your dog won't make him more afraid, I promise.
And using drugs doesn't have to be a forever thing...if it helps him its worth trying.
If anyone cares to see it I can send them a longer explanation of how I counter-conditioned Lacey to calm herself and hide in the bathtub.
04-20-2011, 07:14 PM
#49
Super Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: desert area of California
Posts: 2,206
Originally Posted by JulieR
Okay, this is going to sound very unpopular but just hear me out. LOL
DO NOT comfort a dog that is afraid. Don't coddle him, pet him or otherwise try to "love" him better.
Instead, you need to be calm and confident. Lead by example - project the idea that there is nothing to fear, and that you are in control of the situation. You aren't going to let anything bad happen to him, but you can't tell him that with words or petting - instead, let your body language and energy tell him that.
As tough as it is, you have to ignore the behavior you don't want. In this case, I would put him in a sit or down position next to you, silently project your calm confidence and read a book or sew something. As long as he is sitting where you asked him to be, ignore him until he calms down - THEN you can praise him, thereby reinforcing the relaxed behavior.
No drugs, no feeling sorry for him. Instead help him face his fears and get over them. It isn't easy Why not? For the same reason that you DO pet him when he does something good: you are telling him that whatever he just did is the right thing to do! So when you pet him while he's panicking in a storm you're telling him he was right - he SHOULD be afraid!
and it won't be instant, but I promise it's well worth the effort!
DO NOT comfort a dog that is afraid. Don't coddle him, pet him or otherwise try to "love" him better.
Instead, you need to be calm and confident. Lead by example - project the idea that there is nothing to fear, and that you are in control of the situation. You aren't going to let anything bad happen to him, but you can't tell him that with words or petting - instead, let your body language and energy tell him that.
As tough as it is, you have to ignore the behavior you don't want. In this case, I would put him in a sit or down position next to you, silently project your calm confidence and read a book or sew something. As long as he is sitting where you asked him to be, ignore him until he calms down - THEN you can praise him, thereby reinforcing the relaxed behavior.
No drugs, no feeling sorry for him. Instead help him face his fears and get over them. It isn't easy Why not? For the same reason that you DO pet him when he does something good: you are telling him that whatever he just did is the right thing to do! So when you pet him while he's panicking in a storm you're telling him he was right - he SHOULD be afraid!
and it won't be instant, but I promise it's well worth the effort!
This is sound advice. Your actions will relate to the fur baby if he too should be alarmed. This is going to be difficult for you but do try to relax and act as if noting is out of the ordinary.
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