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  • Problems with jammed bobbin area on Anker Phoenix 429

  • Problems with jammed bobbin area on Anker Phoenix 429

    Old 06-02-2014, 02:05 PM
      #1  
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    Default Problems with jammed bobbin area on Anker Phoenix 429

    Hi Group,

    A few posts from me today as I have made some Tinker Time, and am enjoying getting my machines in working order again :-)

    My big problem now concerns Ziggy, my Anker Phoenix 429 Pfaff-knock-off ZigZag machine. Some of you met him in my first thread when I joined QB last year; http://www.quiltingboard.com/introdu...e-t222378.html

    A few months I was sewing and I got a colossal thread jam. I removed as much as I could, but I know that sometimes thread gets waaaaay in there and one has to fully disassemble things. So today I finally alotted the time and I am STUMPED. Quite despondent about it actually, and I am -really- hoping someone can help me.

    Following are a few photos. The first shows the "finger" which keeps the hook business oscillating. When the finger is removed, I can turn the handwheel freely and the whole race/hook all rotates freely, counter-clockwise (although I do perceive a small amount of drag; it is not as smooth as I would wish). However, as soon as I replace the finger, then I can no longer turn the handwheel. That is, the handwheel turns, but it spins out and disengages from moving the mechanics.

    So, this tells me that the problem is occurring here in the bobbin area (which adds up to my thread jam hypothesis.)

    I cannot see any wayward thread bits. I can floss where I think the normal thread path is (shown in first photo). But, there must be -something- stopping things from oscillating. Can anyone help me?

    The second and the third photos show six tiny screws; three plus three, which hold the outer parts of the hook mechanism to the central part. I wanted to disassemble the entire thing in order to give it a RGC (Real Good Clean ), but only two of the six screws would budge. They are a fine slot, and not very deep, and -very- firmly there. They have not been moved for sixty years... I am too afraid to bruise or strip them. I am also not sure whether this will reveal the problem or not. I am really not sure if full dis-assembly is the way to go, even if I can figure out how to do it.

    I will so greatly appreciate any advice; how or whether to remove those screws? Or are there other likely causes of the oscillating action being utterly jammed?

    Thank you in advance.

    Floss moves freely:

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]477659[/ATTACH]

    Tiny screws are seized:
    [ATTACH=CONFIG]477660[/ATTACH]
    [ATTACH=CONFIG]477661[/ATTACH]
    Attached Thumbnails img_7097.jpg   img_7095.jpg   img_7096.jpg  

    Last edited by Cecilia S.; 06-02-2014 at 02:09 PM.
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    Old 06-02-2014, 04:13 PM
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    This is a really cool machine. I had to look it up and see pics first. Secondly, I am not sure of terminology but is the "finger" the part at 11:00 in the top photo? If so, with my 301 I had to remove the upper bobbin plate to free things up and be able to remove the bobbin case. I followed these directions http://mysewingmachineobsession.blog...bbin-case.html I have no idea if this could help you, but am spit balling ideas here.

    Also I have to remove the "jib screw" and it was horribly frozen. I soaked it well with Liquid Wrench, used a jewelers tiny screwdriver and a wrench to add torque. I was terrified I would strip it, but leaned into it and went slowly.
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    Old 06-02-2014, 05:30 PM
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    Yes, it is a cool machine. A gentle giant. Approx 40 pounds of metal. And so quiet!!!

    The bobbin is vertical, and in the zig-zag orientation. i.e. as a Bernina, not as a Featherweight. The finger is at 12:00 (yes, 11 in the photo as you can see it is on an angle. Sorry if the photo was confusing!) and is screwed to the body of the machine. It comes off no problem.

    (I have also removed my FW gib and agree, it was a tender yet strength-required operation. This is even harder and I am very afraid of wrecking things.)

    I am afraid I do not understand the mechanics of what could be causing this jam. I will be so grateful if someone can help explain. Miriam maybe? You used to have a Phoenix...?

    And yes, please everyone chime in on their favourite method to un-stick stuck screws. Oil? Liquid wrench as per Christy's suggestion? Something else?

    Please, and thank you.

    -C.
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    Old 06-02-2014, 08:44 PM
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    First, I'd put some triflow in the hook area and gently try to work it. Don't force it. But sometimes if there is a stray bit of thread the Triflow can help move it along and at least make it visible or accessible with tweezers. If you can't get to it, I use Liquid Wrench for stuck screws.
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    Old 06-03-2014, 04:13 AM
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    I got a new can of Kroil in the mail yesterday - I'll hand it to you through your screen and you can try it... snicker - I doubt it that would do much. I had a machine I fought and fought with in that area. It was a high speed machine. I took mine apart so many times I stripped threads on screw holes. I had the shuttle apart, off the machine what ever you can do to one I did it. I learned how to do timing for sure. You want to make sure the screws are all the way tight or they can cause thread jams by thread catching on the screw. I'm looking at your second pic - the screw on the right looks loose or protruding. Burrs can cause jams on the high speeds machines. Burrs can be on the screws, on the hook - anywhere - feel around and polish the burrs off. I even had dried up oil cause thread jams on that machine. Taking it apart and putting it back together is tricky but it will really only go back one way and still work. I had to do it by trial and error. I don't know of any manuals or info to tell you how to do it. You may need to take pictures as you go. Those little things are very calibrated and have to go just so. I don't know where you could get specs. Below that screw I pointed out are a couple set screws on the shaft. You can remove the whole works from that shaft. Getting it back together and working will require you to time the machine. An old sewing machine guy told me to mark it with the dremel but I never did. If you use a marker and then clean it will come off. You will be taking the advanced sewing repair class now won't you??? That kind of a mess can take a lot of time to fix. At least the mess I had sure did. I got it but I spent days on it. Maybe you can find a schematic of how the whole thing should go. Even a different shuttle schematic might be somewhat helpful. There isn't any way I can explain how to do it. I can do it but I sure don't like to... Keep fiddling with it...

    Start and stop with the needle all the way up and the bobbin thread clearing the bobbin. A machine can be very sensitive to that. Just because the needle is up doesn't mean it is all the way up and the thread is clear in the bobbin area. The thread take up lever all the way to the top is a better indicator than the needle. So basically prevent the thread jams as best as you can.
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    Old 06-03-2014, 05:07 AM
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    Thank you.

    So, per Candace and Christy, I will try annointing the area in Tri Flow, hoping that things wiggle and such so I can get the thread jam out, presuming there is a bit in there that I cannot see.

    I am not afraid to take it apart; it is just that I cannot get the dang screws out.

    Do you think that removing the whole hook assembly (marking it as Miriam suggested) and marinating it in oil or Liquid Wrench for a few days would help loosen those screws? Or Candace, was simply daubing Liquid Wrench repeatedly on to the spot enough, in your experience?

    Is there a downside to Liquid Wrench? (for example, the downside to evaporust is that it can blacken things)

    Miriam, thanks for your burr-advice; once I get this fixed I will very carefully take a look for smoothness to prevent future jams.
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    Old 06-03-2014, 05:15 AM
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    I would do the oil - a penetrating oil may help loosen the screws. Heat may loosen the screws. I use a T shaped screw driver with various tips to help loosen screws but you want to be careful not to rip up the notch. Those screws HAVE to be tight so they don't fly out at high speed sewing. Ask me how I know......
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    Old 06-03-2014, 05:44 AM
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    Miriam? How do you know?
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    Old 06-03-2014, 06:36 AM
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    Just drench the screws with Liquid Wrench and tap them lightly. Wait, repeat. etc. until they can come out.
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    Old 06-03-2014, 10:41 AM
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    Thank you for your help thusfar.

    With Tri Flow, then heat (from a soldering iron), then a light tap-tap, then a firm unscrewing with screwdriver, I removed six of the seven tiny wee screws. I cleaned things as well as I could, but did not find any major debris which I could blame for the bind-up.

    So, then I removed the large-ish three set screws which keep the whole bobbin business on its rotating shaft. I marked and photographed carefully as I know I will need to fine tune the timing upon re-assembly.

    Found a heckuva thread wrapped all around the shaft! Cleaned the two gears which mesh together, reassembled everything. So, I have now disassembled and cleaned EVERY BIT of the bobbin business -except- for the one "brackety bit" which has the deviant screw which will simply not come undone. However, things are -very- clean, and because that tiny screw is screwing the bracket to the main part, I figure that if I flossed in and all around that one stuck screw, there cannot be excess debris, right? Do you follow my logic - I mean, with the screw screwing metal to metal, it is hardly as though thread will pass through there anyhow, right?

    So far so good?

    Then I replaced it all together, but when I replace the finger, then suddenly I am back to square one. The needle bar will then not move up and down, and the bobbin business remains stuck in one spot.

    So, about this finger:

    On my Singer Clone, that finger is built into the bobbin case.

    On Ziggy The Phoenix, that finger is attached (screwed) to the machine underside.

    That finger serves the same purpose in both cases, right? To allow a bit of left-to-right movement while the hook oscillates?

    What could be causing the whole works to seize simply by adding the finger to the equation?

    There must be some mechanical operation that I am not understanding, for I just cannot figure out what could be the trouble. Please and thanks, I have really appreciated the help thusfar and I will be so happy if I can fix this guy.
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