Tink's Mom

Wouldn't these be grandfathered in? I assumed that as long as they were not modified, that they would be allowed...

Jamesbeat

I guess they must be if professionals are still willing repair them, but they certainly wouldn't pass current safety standards for new equpiment.

Tink's Mom

My almost 2 year old granddaughter lives with us in a small house. My sewing machines are in plain view and she already knows that they are forbidden. She isn't touching anything by the machines...she understood when told "NO" these are NOT toys! This is Nana's work. She tells me "Zoe, no-no" when she sits on my lap by the machine.
I don't take out needles or unplug...

Valeriekat

All UK plugs have 3 prongs but they aren't all earthed. Agree that 240v is more dangerous as you can get 2x the current. Old machines bought at auction in the UK will have the wires cut so have to be rewired. I leave it to the pro's ...my husband doesn't trust me sadly with good reason!

ArchaicArcane

This is very true. My cousin (the electrician) worked on industrial stuff so 220, 440 and 110. She said that 110 kills more people than 220, largely because we tend to not respect it. She gives me crap when I do dumb things like unplugging the wrong end of a double lead and proceeding to repair the machine end of it. I've "sparkled" too, Mike. Sorry to hear you've done it recently. Nasty feeling. I hurt for 3 days.

I'd be interested in knowing how many electrocutions or several shock situations have occurred due to a failure of a foot pedal, or sewing machines in general.

That's the only way I can sew. With shoes or even socks makes me nuts! It's like I can't feel anything. Says the girl who can shift a motorcycle in dirt or street motorcycle boots.

I think you're right. I had a guy from Finland contact me about the same thing. I told him the same thing I said here. If the wiring is safe and properly done, the risk of electrical shock or electrocution is so minimal as to be probably not worth being concerned about. Then he proceeded to come up with this fantastic scenario about if the wiring failed in his featherweight and touched the body and he were to be touching it at the same time and something about his radiator heating being grounded and in the same room and ...something or other he could be electrocuted. He refused to see that his perfect storm of events relied on failure of the wiring, which by definition negated the "safe and properly done" comment.

I guess technically the handwheel can still be turned and vaccinate little hands at the other end. That said, I was always the parent that said "Please don't do this, it will hurt you" explained why, then if it happened anyway, asked what lesson was learned. Typically the lesson was learned faster by disobediance than obediance. Don't get me wrong, I didn't leave stove burners on and pots with handles turned out for temptation. I just knew that protecting her from everything would have the opposite effect of what I wanted - A thinking child who understood consequences and didn't expect me to think for her all the time. I can't see a kid vaccinating themselves more than once, twice at the outside. Eventually they learn a few things: 1. Mommy didn't lie to me. 2. It hurt. 3. If I don't do that again, I bet it won't hurt.

Within reason, falling down is part of growing up. So is getting dirty. As an added bonus, getting dirty also helps build the immune system.

Technically, a sewing cabinet is very top heavy with the machine suspended like that from the top... *evil grin*

Technically, a lot of the manuals from "back in the day" tell us to unplug the machine when not in use. The foot pedals can overheat and cause a fire. Was it you, Joe who had one scorch the lino under it?

Jamesbeat

I have to say I'm a little surprised that I'm drawing criticism for wanting to make my machine safer.
I don't think it is particularly dangerous, but it's not as safe as it could be, nor as safe as current laws mandate.
Certainly, most first-world governments think that it is important enough to make laws about.



I used to work in electronics, and I have received enough mains shocks to know that I never want to receive another one.


I know that the chances of this happening are pretty slim, but it is certainly possible, and if it is easily preventable, why not do it?


A quick google search turned up this article from the 50's about a woman who was electrocuted by her sewing machine:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/47422477


Again, I'm sure this is rare, but it's not impossible.

manicmike

Like I already said, the opposite of this is true. For anyone who wants to know why:
Power = voltage times current, or P = V I
If you want a motor to have the same power with twice the voltage, you need to reduce the current (I) by half. Higher voltage and lower current is safer. This is why the UK and Australia chose a higher voltage standard than the U.S.
As another example: Ever get a zap from your car's spark plugs? Sure it'll send you across the garage floor because the voltage is extremely high (around 30,000 volts) but nobody ever dies from the electric surge because the current is correspondingly low.

Regarding the article from 1952 that James quoted from. This was outback Australia in 1952 where they used 32 volts DC as mains supply. Therefore not at all supportive of your point. Sixty two years ago things were very different. You can't just quote something out of context.
Also James, if you worked in electronics I'd have expected you to know the basics of electrical theory such as P=VI

jlhmnj

Please, No more on ATF or grounding or my head will explode like one of the martians on "Mars Attacks" after listening to a Jimmy Rogers Yodel.

manicmike

It was nothing. Really, a 240V shock isn't anywhere near as bad as a 110V shock. It hurt for maybe 5 seconds but the memory lasted a lot longer: Long enough for even me to remember to be more careful! You'd have received twice the current, and that's what goes through your nerves.

I Googled it and came up with nothing, so it's probably never happened, certainly not with bakelite FCs.

Absolutely right Tammi. When my nephew was about 3 he was an inquisitive child. I was soldering something and he kept going to touch the iron. I warned him at least three times not to go near it and told him it would really hurt. Of course when I briefly left the room the inevitable happened. He screamed in pain, we ran his hand under the cold water and learned a valuable lesson. He's just turned 30.

The 110v FCs get hotter because they draw twice the current. Worst I've seen in Australia was one getting very slightly warm.

The 222k I bought the other week was made for the outback and was 32VDC, 1amp. That 1 amp is what made me decide not to buy a converter. Even though it had barely been used, all the wiring was completely shot and will have to be replaced. Higher current is what makes wires hot. Miriam told me a while ago that she'd never seen a 319 that didn't need re-wiring. I almost ran to mine to replace wiring only to discover that all of them were completely intact.

Not trying to be clever. Just busting a myth or two. England and Australia have almost the same mains voltage and I've had many a shock, initially in the UK where I grew up, with very little consequence.

Jamesbeat

Manicmike: You're correct in that higher voltages will push less current through you (if you consider the human body to be a fixed resistor) but the point is moot because the amount of current needed to stop your heart is very small, in the order of a couple of hundred miliamps.
7A passing through your body can kill you just as surely as 14A.
This is way above my pay grade, and it's an extremely complex subject, but essentially 110v is more likey to burn you, and 240v is more likely to damage your nervous system.
Either one will be quite happy to kill you if you don't respect it.

The reason that the UK chose 240v was because higher voltages decrease losses due to heating of conductors in the electrical supply lines.
Nowadays, the voltage used is even higher, and is stepped down before it's piped into your home.

My point about the Australian woman is valid regardless of the nature of the supply. She died because the chassis of her machine became live and transfered electricity into her body.
If her machine had been built to today's standards, that unwanted electricity would have passed harmlessly to ground and she would have lived.

I don't understand why there is even an argument here (actually, I think I do, but it has nothing to do with electrical safety).

Ungrounded 'floating chassis' electrical equipment is not considered safe by todays standards. It's not a matter of opinion.
Perhaps modern safety standards are overkill, but they exist for very sound reasons. Please don't be rude to me because I am choosing to adhere to them.