Grounding Vintage Sewing Machines
#21
Super Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: chicago, IL
Posts: 9,589
Wouldn't these be grandfathered in? I assumed that as long as they were not modified, that they would be allowed...
#23
Super Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: chicago, IL
Posts: 9,589
My almost 2 year old granddaughter lives with us in a small house. My sewing machines are in plain view and she already knows that they are forbidden. She isn't touching anything by the machines...she understood when told "NO" these are NOT toys! This is Nana's work. She tells me "Zoe, no-no" when she sits on my lap by the machine.
I don't take out needles or unplug...
I don't take out needles or unplug...
#24
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 45
All UK plugs have 3 prongs but they aren't all earthed. Agree that 240v is more dangerous as you can get 2x the current. Old machines bought at auction in the UK will have the wires cut so have to be rewired. I leave it to the pro's ...my husband doesn't trust me sadly with good reason!
#25
It's actually safer to have high voltage. To achieve the same power usage you need half the current that the US 110V devices need, and current is what will stop your heart. 240VAC will certainly give a good jolt (I was shocked just yesterday - stupidly forgot to unplug a motor before removing a brush). Gave me a kick but that's all.
I caught my 3 year old daughter copying me by pressing the foot pedal (with bare feet!) the other day.
I guess technically the handwheel can still be turned and vaccinate little hands at the other end. That said, I was always the parent that said "Please don't do this, it will hurt you" explained why, then if it happened anyway, asked what lesson was learned. Typically the lesson was learned faster by disobediance than obediance. Don't get me wrong, I didn't leave stove burners on and pots with handles turned out for temptation. I just knew that protecting her from everything would have the opposite effect of what I wanted - A thinking child who understood consequences and didn't expect me to think for her all the time. I can't see a kid vaccinating themselves more than once, twice at the outside. Eventually they learn a few things: 1. Mommy didn't lie to me. 2. It hurt. 3. If I don't do that again, I bet it won't hurt.
Within reason, falling down is part of growing up. So is getting dirty. As an added bonus, getting dirty also helps build the immune system.
Technically, a lot of the manuals from "back in the day" tell us to unplug the machine when not in use. The foot pedals can overheat and cause a fire. Was it you, Joe who had one scorch the lino under it?
#26
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: NY, USA. Originally Birmingham, UK
Posts: 85
I have to say I'm a little surprised that I'm drawing criticism for wanting to make my machine safer.
I don't think it is particularly dangerous, but it's not as safe as it could be, nor as safe as current laws mandate.
Certainly, most first-world governments think that it is important enough to make laws about.
I used to work in electronics, and I have received enough mains shocks to know that I never want to receive another one.
I know that the chances of this happening are pretty slim, but it is certainly possible, and if it is easily preventable, why not do it?
A quick google search turned up this article from the 50's about a woman who was electrocuted by her sewing machine:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/47422477
Again, I'm sure this is rare, but it's not impossible.
I don't think it is particularly dangerous, but it's not as safe as it could be, nor as safe as current laws mandate.
Certainly, most first-world governments think that it is important enough to make laws about.
I used to work in electronics, and I have received enough mains shocks to know that I never want to receive another one.
I know that the chances of this happening are pretty slim, but it is certainly possible, and if it is easily preventable, why not do it?
A quick google search turned up this article from the 50's about a woman who was electrocuted by her sewing machine:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/47422477
Again, I'm sure this is rare, but it's not impossible.
Last edited by Jamesbeat; 06-07-2014 at 05:49 PM.
#27
Like I already said, the opposite of this is true. For anyone who wants to know why:
Power = voltage times current, or P = V I
If you want a motor to have the same power with twice the voltage, you need to reduce the current (I) by half. Higher voltage and lower current is safer. This is why the UK and Australia chose a higher voltage standard than the U.S.
As another example: Ever get a zap from your car's spark plugs? Sure it'll send you across the garage floor because the voltage is extremely high (around 30,000 volts) but nobody ever dies from the electric surge because the current is correspondingly low.
Regarding the article from 1952 that James quoted from. This was outback Australia in 1952 where they used 32 volts DC as mains supply. Therefore not at all supportive of your point. Sixty two years ago things were very different. You can't just quote something out of context.
Also James, if you worked in electronics I'd have expected you to know the basics of electrical theory such as P=VI
Power = voltage times current, or P = V I
If you want a motor to have the same power with twice the voltage, you need to reduce the current (I) by half. Higher voltage and lower current is safer. This is why the UK and Australia chose a higher voltage standard than the U.S.
As another example: Ever get a zap from your car's spark plugs? Sure it'll send you across the garage floor because the voltage is extremely high (around 30,000 volts) but nobody ever dies from the electric surge because the current is correspondingly low.
Regarding the article from 1952 that James quoted from. This was outback Australia in 1952 where they used 32 volts DC as mains supply. Therefore not at all supportive of your point. Sixty two years ago things were very different. You can't just quote something out of context.
Also James, if you worked in electronics I'd have expected you to know the basics of electrical theory such as P=VI
Last edited by manicmike; 06-07-2014 at 08:16 PM.
#29
Typically the lesson was learned faster by disobediance than obediance. Don't get me wrong, I didn't leave stove burners on and pots with handles turned out for temptation.
...The foot pedals can overheat and cause a fire. Was it you, Joe who had one scorch the lino under it?
...The foot pedals can overheat and cause a fire. Was it you, Joe who had one scorch the lino under it?
The 110v FCs get hotter because they draw twice the current. Worst I've seen in Australia was one getting very slightly warm.
The 222k I bought the other week was made for the outback and was 32VDC, 1amp. That 1 amp is what made me decide not to buy a converter. Even though it had barely been used, all the wiring was completely shot and will have to be replaced. Higher current is what makes wires hot. Miriam told me a while ago that she'd never seen a 319 that didn't need re-wiring. I almost ran to mine to replace wiring only to discover that all of them were completely intact.
Not trying to be clever. Just busting a myth or two. England and Australia have almost the same mains voltage and I've had many a shock, initially in the UK where I grew up, with very little consequence.
#30
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: NY, USA. Originally Birmingham, UK
Posts: 85
Manicmike: You're correct in that higher voltages will push less current through you (if you consider the human body to be a fixed resistor) but the point is moot because the amount of current needed to stop your heart is very small, in the order of a couple of hundred miliamps.
7A passing through your body can kill you just as surely as 14A.
This is way above my pay grade, and it's an extremely complex subject, but essentially 110v is more likey to burn you, and 240v is more likely to damage your nervous system.
Either one will be quite happy to kill you if you don't respect it.
The reason that the UK chose 240v was because higher voltages decrease losses due to heating of conductors in the electrical supply lines.
Nowadays, the voltage used is even higher, and is stepped down before it's piped into your home.
My point about the Australian woman is valid regardless of the nature of the supply. She died because the chassis of her machine became live and transfered electricity into her body.
If her machine had been built to today's standards, that unwanted electricity would have passed harmlessly to ground and she would have lived.
I don't understand why there is even an argument here (actually, I think I do, but it has nothing to do with electrical safety).
Ungrounded 'floating chassis' electrical equipment is not considered safe by todays standards. It's not a matter of opinion.
Perhaps modern safety standards are overkill, but they exist for very sound reasons. Please don't be rude to me because I am choosing to adhere to them.
7A passing through your body can kill you just as surely as 14A.
This is way above my pay grade, and it's an extremely complex subject, but essentially 110v is more likey to burn you, and 240v is more likely to damage your nervous system.
Either one will be quite happy to kill you if you don't respect it.
The reason that the UK chose 240v was because higher voltages decrease losses due to heating of conductors in the electrical supply lines.
Nowadays, the voltage used is even higher, and is stepped down before it's piped into your home.
My point about the Australian woman is valid regardless of the nature of the supply. She died because the chassis of her machine became live and transfered electricity into her body.
If her machine had been built to today's standards, that unwanted electricity would have passed harmlessly to ground and she would have lived.
I don't understand why there is even an argument here (actually, I think I do, but it has nothing to do with electrical safety).
Ungrounded 'floating chassis' electrical equipment is not considered safe by todays standards. It's not a matter of opinion.
Perhaps modern safety standards are overkill, but they exist for very sound reasons. Please don't be rude to me because I am choosing to adhere to them.
Last edited by Jamesbeat; 06-07-2014 at 09:36 PM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
braidingaayinNEK
General Chit-Chat (non-quilting talk)
17
06-12-2018 09:32 AM
SingerSewer
Main
10
06-22-2013 06:24 AM
craftybear
Links and Resources
46
10-15-2010 06:00 PM
craftybear
Main
3
06-27-2010 07:18 PM