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Thread: Last time I swear...

  1. #1
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    Unhappy Last time I swear...

    I won't ask any more about this machine as no one seems to know anything. I have figured out how to use it and am almost done with my first quilt to be quilted on it. You can see the original thread here, if ya wanna, : Need serious help with this quilting setup...

    I also figured out the stand alone bobbin winder as well, thanks to the gammil(?) video I found on YouTube that is identical to what I have.

    I read the description I found on Ismacs but this machine doesn't have any feed dogs and just a single hole solid stitch plate so there isn't any vertical trimmer. I assume this is due to it being setup as a short/mid/longarm..? Not sure which, I haven't measured the harp space.

    Ismacs has this to say about it, in case you wonder what I am talking about:
    "One needle and gear driven rotary hook. Lockstitch. With vertical trimmer. For stitching and trimming light, medium or heavyweight clothing in one operation. Speed 3500 SPM. Singer suggested replacement 245-4."
    I looked up the suggested replacement as well and the description is the same but the machine head does have some slight differences. Were these early versions of a serger, is that what a vertical trimmer means and how it works?
    Also, I know I said one question but ya know how that goes. Needle is Organ Size 16, 16x231(2254) DBx1, 287 WH, 14:25(CANU). I have found it mentioned that the DBxK5 is identical to that one, and Schmetz says their equivalent is a 14:25 1. I bought some X(K?)lasse (can't tell which letter it is, looks like open scissors), Serger Type A(16x231, DBx1, 2053) Type A Overlock needles at a local babylock dealer as they said these would work. They are size 80/12. They don't work! Round shank, same length, just a smaller scarf and they refuse to grab the bobbin thread or on that rare chance that it does, the stitches skip and it sews inches without any stitches "locked" due to losing the bobbin thread. I have re-threaded and re-threaded the upper and the bobbin, even wound new bobbins but to no avail! It refuses to snag that bobbin thread permanently so I can sew. So, is a size 16 the only size I can use then? Or are these new needles just not the correct ones?
    Any help is appreciated! While I am having fun learning this machine and actually using it(but only with her original setup), I would like to at least find some correctly functioning *alternate* needles close to me and not have to order them online.

    Again, thanks! Hope someone can help with something. :-/

    *I know I should just be happy that it works at all and use it like it is. However, her thread (tons of it) is really old, dirty and some of it's brittle. I would like to make smaller holes in the quilt than a 16 does, and use my brand new thread collections from Connecting Threads on my quilts. So, thanks again if ya got any info for me.

  2. #2
    Super Member SteveH's Avatar
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    here is the parts diagram if it helps..
    http://parts.singerco.com/IPpartCharts/96-45.pdf

    this description explains the cutter
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  3. #3
    Super Member Candace's Avatar
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    Are you certain it's timed correctly?

  4. #4
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    Thanks SteveH, I had read that a bunch but beings mine doesn't have any cutter, let alone the vertical one mentioned, I have no idea where it would go or how it would work. Was just thinking "that sure sounds like an early serger" after reading about it. Just wondered out loud I guess, if that is what this machine was meant/designed for.

    Candace, I don't know anything about the timing but I do know that if I use her 50wt thread in the top and any thread in the bobbin, along with the original Organ 16x231, size 16 needles, this thing runs like a charm and sews a beautiful stitch if I can keep my movements in time to its speed. It does not sew well slow, I can confirm that. ;-) The more ya press down on the thumb lever above the back handle, the better it sews. I have 70wt thread I am dying to use(it's all new) but I can't get the tension right or mayhaps this beast just doesn't like it, idk which. I can use the 70wt, 50wt, or even all-purpose 2 for $1 Wally World thread in the bobbin though and it will work just fine. So long as I use the size 16 needle and her 50wt on top.

    Anyhow, thanks for trying to help. I do appreciate it.

  5. #5
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    Ok, I took some pics maybe these will help get me help..?

    Also, I got some important numbers wrong..sorry! Her thread is all 40wt and mine is 50wt. Except for the Coats Surelock threads I have, I have no idea what weights these are as it doesn't say anywhere on the label.
    All threads, hers & mine, are right twisted as far as I can tell. Her labels say that, mine don't but I did test the open ones and they are the same twist as hers are.

    First pic is the machine, threaded according to the guide I found and it works this way so it must be right.
    2nd pic is my stitch plate/bobbin cover area. Both are solid except for the tiny hole for the needle to go through. No feed dogs either.
    3rd pic is two spools of thread, made in different years. Hers on left, mine on right.
    4th pic is the label on her spool of the white thread, but all her spools have the same type of label. Some are this brand others are JP Coats.
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    Last edited by PJisChaos; 03-27-2013 at 07:51 PM. Reason: user errors

  6. #6
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    some more pics

    First pic here is the stitching on the back, using her thread on top, mine in bobbin and her size 16 needle
    2nd pic is the stitching on top, same thing. Don't mind the inability to accurately follow the panto by me, I am learning and these look way better than the beginning of the quilt. LoL!
    3rd pic are the needles I bought on the left and her needles on the right. I took hers with me when I bought mine, for comparison. Not that it seems to have mattered but was worth a try. Engraved on her needles it does say Organ.

    Maybe these pics will help, maybe not. If I can get pass this, I will move on to replacement bobbins but fear they will be just as frustrating since one side is solid and the other side has holes and there are no notches anywhere on the inside(like my other machines have to lock it in place). The babylock dealer looked at me like I suddenly grew 3 heads when I asked about them so I think I will just go somewhere else next time.
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  7. #7
    Super Member Candace's Avatar
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    First, Maxilock is serger thread and is the cheapest, spun poly thread on the market. I would suggest a different thread. Serger thread is different than cone thread, and Maxilock is made for sergers. There are many, quality threads on the market that are sold on cones that are not serger threads. Second, it sure sounds like a timing issue if you can get it to stitch with a large needle and get skipped stitches with smaller needles. You should investigate this further and if you don't feel you're up to servicing it you should take it to a local repair shop. There are quite a few sites if you google that show the basics of timing or making sure your machine is in time. I have no idea what needle this model takes, but that could be your whole problem-or the timing. An incorrect needle will not give you good results. 70 wt thread is VERY fine and I've never heard of anyone quilting with it as it's not a very strong thread. I guess if one was doing some serious micro quilting to reduce bulk...but it wouldn't be my choice for quilting. It's mainly a bobbin thread for embroidery or heirloom type thread, I believe. Just like serger thread is usually 5 threads to wrap around a seam and build strength. Personally and there have been many topics about this, I wouldn't use it for quilting or piecing.

    I would recommend you go to Superior Threads and read what they have to say about the different threads and thread weights. Good luck.
    Last edited by Candace; 03-27-2013 at 08:28 PM.

  8. #8
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    Thanks for the info, I will stick with the maxilock on my dsm's & treadle and just keep trying the 100%cotton threads I have. Figured the cheap stuff wouldn't hurt the pocket since I am just learning the machine. :-(
    I will mess with the timing tomorrow and see what happens.

  9. #9
    Super Member Candace's Avatar
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    I understand wanting to be frugal. However, it may be part of your problem and narrowing down the contributing factors will help you pinpoint the exact problem or problems. Keep your Maxilock on your serger:> I wouldn't touch the timing, unless you know it's off, by doing some research first.

    There are some great poly, quilting threads on the market.

  10. #10
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    Yeah, I know it wasn't helping any when I first started having issues when using it. So I re-shelved it and have just been using her 40wt threads. It just frustrates me that the only needle that works is a size 16, I don't like the big holes it leaves. Especially when the older thread breaks and I fail to realize it before making several inches of what I thought was stitching! On my dsm's, I only use a size 16 for denim and never any bigger than a 12 for quilting.
    Would the smaller diameter of the size 12 be that big of a difference to suggest a timing issue? Or is it the smaller scarf that indicates a timing issue? I don't get it but am willing to learn it. Both needles are exact same specs minus the different sizes, maybe it is just finicky because it's an industrial, lol!! Ya know, "all brawn, no brains".

    I just noticed ya updated your earlier post, I was wrong on the thread weights. Hers is all 40wt, mine are all 50wt. Well, the cottons are, I don't know about the serger stuff. I mainly use that for general fixes or utility quilts. I tried Gutterman once, didn't like the results, after a few washes the threads started breaking. The 50wt works great in the bobbins with her 40wt on top. I just can't get the tension right on top to use it there. 50wt is finer, right? So less tension than the 40wt?

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