ArchaicArcane

Hey everyone,

This seems to only be a problem I run into on the vintage machines. The newer machine (A 290C) doesn't exhibit this problem that I've ever noticed. Usually my 403a, but today it's a new to me Elna Supermatic giving me grief. I'm wondering if I'm just being too picky and should just leave well enough alone.

I can't seem to balance the tension "exactly". I've disassembled the bobbin case area and cleaned in and around. I removed the tension discs and cleaned as well as I could, without complete disassembly (looked like a real pain), but I managed to fish this out:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]347131[/ATTACH]

I reassembled everything and took it for a test drive. I played with the bobbin tension some, and finally arrived at this, at an upper tension of 4.5ish:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]347133[/ATTACH]

Hopefully the picture is big enough to see. What I think I'm seeing is tension too loose on one side of the zig zag, and too tight on the other side. It's fairly consistent, and of course it's not noticeable if you use the same color of thread top and bottom.

It's just that,.... well, I know it's there.

Should I just be ignoring it? Or have I missed something? Tighten or loosen the tension top or bottom from here, and you end up with more pulled down or up, but still can't find the "perfect" balance. An OSMG said to me that you sometimes have to sacrafice the bottom a little if you want the top perfect. Does that mean this may be as close as it gets?

Thanks a bunch for any and all opinions.

Candace

I've found vintage Elnas can be a little picky with thread. They like thin thread and thicker thread can cause tension problems. I've set all mine to use the 50 wt. thread that I most often use, which typically means I have to change the bobbin case tension to lower than the factory set tension. I don't know what kind of thread you're using? But, it's easy to change the bobbin case tension on supermatics with that lever that has the red dot on it in the case area. It has a slot for a screw driver. You can change it up and down to see if either makes you happier with the tension.

Most vintage machines will need to have their top tension lowered when doing zig zag or embroidery stitching. That's just how they operate.

ArchaicArcane

Hi Candace,

Thanks for your quick reply. Yes, I've been experimenting with the bobbin case tension (mentioned above in between the two pictures), that's how I got it as close as it is. Before I did that and the cleaning, I could only come close with the upper tension at 9,.. and of course that means that the fabric puckers something fierce.

What doesn't make a lot of sense to me is the fact that between a zig and a zag, the tension balance seems to tip to top or bottom. That's why on the picture you see the "Wrong" thread on the outsides of the stitches in the image.

When I stitched, the red (50 wt) was on the top, and blue (also 50wt ) on the bottom. Looking at the stitches, you can see that on the left side of the stitch, it appears that the top tension is looser than the bottom, but then on the right side of the stitch, it looks like the bottom tension is looser than the top. Obviously I haven't made an adjustment between each stitch, so I wonder what's "unbalanced" to cause this.

As I mentioned, I find this on my 403a as well, and it was professionally tuned up, the elna was "just me".

Candace

Is your needle centered properly in the plate when doing a straight stitch? Is your zig zag the same distance on both sides to the outside edge of your foot?

irishrose

My Elna has perfect tension - always has had. I hate making a mistake with that machine because it's very hard to get out. My tension troublemaker was a 1961 Kenmore. That's why it was replaced, ultimately. Miss Elna likes old polycovered cotton C & C thread and Guterman thread, but recently did some applique with lightweight rayon and polyester and did a great job. Your tension example looks like my 1978 Montgomery Wards machine's work when it had the same lightweight thread in it.

vintagemotif

Also, If you are using two different threads this could be one cause. I was told by Cathy that if a black thread is used with a lighter color thread this could cause problems in the stitches.

miriam

Adjust the tension with good quality thread and a brand new Schmetz 14 needle.

ArchaicArcane

Sorry for the long response, I was out for dinner with a friend last night, and only just had a chance to check on Candace's questions.

Yes it's centered with the straight stitch.

I did notice that the clamp that holds the needle to the needle bar sits turned a little to the right of center, which seems odd to me. I loosened the screw and turned it straight, but as soon as I tightened the screw it went back to a few degrees to the right. I assume that's correct then. *shrugs*
I also find it odd that the bobbin and case are tilted a little off level too. This whole machine is taking a bit of getting used to.


No, it's not quite the same distance with the zig zag. At a 4, I actually had to use a measuring tape to see it, but it's probably about .35mm (roughly 0.015 inch) shorter on the left side. Possibly enough to make some of that difference. I thought that would just be a variance from the cam though,...?

So, If I remember this right, a lighter weight thread will require a tighter tension. If I tighten the tensions, I seem to get pucker but the same uneven result. Suggestions? Or is this just something to live with?

I will try running the gutterman thread through it a little later today. I have to help with the building of the deck first.

Or do the same colored threads top and bottom mask the problem? The only reason I ever use 2 different threads is for testing after a tune up. I guess in theory, a black thread could have more dye, and therefore be heavier.


K,.. I will try that again later today. I have both here. I was using either a test needle, (been used a few times) or the needle that came in it when I bought it last weekend. In fact, just because I can't recall which needle it is is a good enough reason to change the needle. Thanks for the reminder.

Candace

If your zig zag is slightly off, it could cause the tension to be slightly off as well. It may be that the zig zag is either slightly stuck. Have you cleaned and lubed your machine recently? Cleaned out the bobbin case area fully?

I always use two contrasting color threads to adjust tension. I've never had issues with black, but I can understand the reasoning behind it.

I think you should concentrate on why your zig zag isn't swinging fully as I would suspect this is your culprit.

ArchaicArcane

Ugh,.. no time at the sewing machine yesterday, came in at 11pm, then had to deal with partying neighbors that the cops wouldn't come tell to shut it down. At 1 and 2 am,.. I don't test sew well with people whistling, screaming, and "whhhhhhooooooooooooooooooooooooo"ing at the top of their lungs. I will try to do this tonight when we come in from the yard.

The machine is new to me, but the first thing it got was a complete cleaning and lube and the pulley filed. Bobbin case was removed and everything. I did hear from the seller that it had been "reluctant" when they pulled it out of the basement, so they'd oiled it. I'm not sure how reluctant, so maybe it is still a little "stuck", but it really doesn't seem like it. I will take a closer look tonight though.