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Thread: Singer 411G, Singer 401G and a Singer 401A Slant-O-Matic Singer machines

  1. #71
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    I can't see the attachments either, but plume, that table is to die for! And the machine is beautiful. The stars lined up for you and you got a dream machine! Congratulations!

    Miriam, I am so glad I found your thread! I love the slantomatics too. I have a 401A. I have a couple of questions. Here goes:

    1. If you don't use WD-40 or liquid wrench to clean inside the machine (cam stack area, etc.) what do you use? I HATE cleaning in there -- it's so hard.

    2. For the past few days I've been dreaming of how I might get my 401 to chain stitch. (How lucky I am to find you right now!) Will the 411g bobbin race fit in a 401? Here's my idea: the Singer 600 series machines can chain stitch, and for this they have 3 accessories: 1. a chain stitch throat plate (with a little doo-hicky on the back), 2. a thread guide that clips onto the machine, and 3. a little bobbin case cover plate. These are readily available, I guess because of all the Touch and Sews that bit the dust leaving their attachments behind.

    The 600 series uses a different bobbin, so that little plate probably won't fit. BUT, I found chain stitch instructions online for the 411G, and it doesn't use the little cover plate. The 600 series chain stitch throat plate should fit the 401, and I think the thread guide clip will fit. So, if I get a 411G bobbin race, a 600 series chain stitch throat plate and thread guide, will my 401A be able to chain stitch?

    I've been obsessed with wanting to chain stitch lately. I would love to find a Singer 24 some day, or a Willcox & Gibbs chain stitcher. I have a Betsy Ross toy chain stitcher, but it can only do light duty work

    Thank you for this thread!
    --Sheila

  2. #72
    Member plume's Avatar
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    Sheluma, did we post at the same time or are the pictures still not appearing (I see them fine)?
    Yes, the stars lined up!

  3. #73
    Power Poster miriam's Avatar
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    I bet the accessories are in the drawer unit.
    That table and machine are very, very nice.
    You have some really wonderful friends.
    I think you found the perfect home for the table and the machine looks like it was born there.
    NEVER let a sewing machine know you are in a hurry.
    Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts. Winston Churchill

  4. #74
    Power Poster miriam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheluma View Post
    1. If you don't use WD-40 or liquid wrench to clean inside the machine (cam stack area, etc.) what do you use? I HATE cleaning in there -- it's so hard.

    Yes it is hard. I use Tri-flow. If the 3 in 1 oil some Egor used doesn't come off you may have to use something stronger. I pack around it with cosmetic pads or pantiliners to protect the finish on the machine. I also have some hospital bed pads or some doggie potty pads to put on the machine's bed to protect it. Then if the Tri-flow doesn't loosen it up I use brake cleaner or xylene - Joe uses gun cleaner. This is a tricky area to work in but I use drops of anything - I don't use gallons. If you use solvent, do it outdoors. I think the liquid wrench and WD40 leave a residue. Once you have used the Tri-flow you should only have to oil that - I haven't had to clean up after T-F yet. Even if it sets a while it goes smooth pretty quick - then drop a bit more on it. It is my understanding that instead of gooping up the T-F powders off when it gets old.


    2. For the past few days I've been dreaming of how I might get my 401 to chain stitch. (How lucky I am to find you right now!) Will the 411g bobbin race fit in a 401? Here's my idea: the Singer 600 series machines can chain stitch, and for this they have 3 accessories: 1. a chain stitch throat plate (with a little doo-hicky on the back), 2. a thread guide that clips onto the machine, and 3. a little bobbin case cover plate. These are readily available, I guess because of all the Touch and Sews that bit the dust leaving their attachments behind.

    The 600 series uses a different bobbin, so that little plate probably won't fit. BUT, I found chain stitch instructions online for the 411G, and it doesn't use the little cover plate. The 600 series chain stitch throat plate should fit the 401, and I think the thread guide clip will fit. So, if I get a 411G bobbin race, a 600 series chain stitch throat plate and thread guide, will my 401A be able to chain stitch?

    I've been obsessed with wanting to chain stitch lately. I would love to find a Singer 24 some day, or a Willcox & Gibbs chain stitcher. I have a Betsy Ross toy chain stitcher, but it can only do light duty work

    Thank you for this thread!
    --Sheila
    Tammi wants hers to chain stitch, too - I don't know if she got it to do it or not. A Singer 600 or 603 Touch and Sew are nice machines when the bobbin area works. If not just use it as a chain stitch and you should be good to go.
    NEVER let a sewing machine know you are in a hurry.
    Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts. Winston Churchill

  5. #75
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    Plume, Yes, we posted at the same time. I see the pictures now. You really do have great friends. That will be a great machine for you to learn on, and to use forever. If you had gotten a crummy new machine, you might hate sewing because of the machine, and not even realize it was the machine and not you. The accessory case with the little drawers is special. Some of the American machines came with a good plastic box with fitted compartments, but I haven't seen anything as nice as yours.

    Miriam, yes, I am still dealing with the previous owners gunk. I used WD-40 at first, but the fumes bother me. I got the machine working, and little by little just try to clean the rest (the non-contact parts) with oil now and then. I know tri-flow is the best, but I don't want to use teflon. I think regular clear sewing machine oil is non-toxic, but teflon isn't. My sewing area is in my kitchen, and I have pets, and I don't want to run the risk that they might ingest some. Do you think silicone might work for tough spots? Where do you pack the pantiliners or cosmetic pads? I just use rags to clean inside or paper towels on the outside.

    Until I saw this thread I thought I might be able to get the 401 to chain stitch just with the special throat plate and thread guide. But then I saw your picture of the bobbin race and realized I'd need that too. The touch and sew uses that little bobbin cover plate, so I thought the bobbin race wasn't doing much during the chain stitch. But I guess that can't be. I don't think I could keep a machine like the touch and sew just for chain stitch (no room) and I know I can't replace my 401 with it. For a beautiful (and small) machine like the 24 or W&G I could find the room. Maybe someday I'll find an affordable 411 or 431.

    Have a great day, Miriam, and a great evening, Plume!

  6. #76
    Power Poster miriam's Avatar
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    The regular sewing oil has paraffin - sets up and you will be doing a lot of cleaning. Joe uses it around his cats.
    I'm thinking the T-F I use is suppose to be food safe.
    NEVER let a sewing machine know you are in a hurry.
    Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts. Winston Churchill

  7. #77
    Super Member ArchaicArcane's Avatar
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    The only way I got a 401A chaining was to use the bobbin case and throat plate from the 411G. I don't think it can be done without fabbing up parts. I sold the 401As that came through the house and kept 1 431G and one 411G and a 503J.

    TF can't be that toxic. I found one of the cats licking a machine that I'd just oiled. She's still here. I close the door now to the ,.. Ah,.. I'll just call it what it is... sewing shop.

    ETA: Plume... it looks GREAT!! I think that guide is the least important one on the machine. As long as the thread doesn't catch and shred on that spot, you -may- need a little tighter tension. When I get home tonight.... or maybe tomorrow, I'll see if I can find you a part number and if it's still available. You're looking for the needle clamp.
    Last edited by ArchaicArcane; 07-18-2013 at 06:11 AM.
    Tammi - I've found that many baby steps tend to get you further than a huge leap in followed by a huge leap out - http://www.archaicarcane.com
    Singer 411G, 301A, 2x 221 (featherweight), 222k - the holy grail, 99-, 15-90 Centennial, 27, VS2, 28 hc, 128 knee bar, 201-2, 31-15, Pfaff 130-6. Non-Vintage - Pfaff 6122, Kenmore (Janome) 385.81595 serger, Kenmore (Janome) 385.81155, 2013 APQS Lucey

  8. #78
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    Tammi! I didn't realize archaic arcane was you. Doh! Somehow I missed seeing your name in your siggie, though I did read through all your machines! (drool)

    Thanks for the info on the chain stitching. I thought that the CS throat plate from the 411G is the same as the Touch and Sew. No? Even if it is, I suppose the 411G bobbin case is about as hard to find as the 411G itself. I've read that the 431G can also chain stitch, but again you need the throat plate, which is probably a bugger to find. Do you have one for your 431G? That would be my dream machine because it has a free arm.

    I did find a manual for the "431 Convertable" -- do you know where that was made? (There's no letter suffix on it.) It mentions nothing about chain stitching. Why would they make a 431 that could not chain stitch when the 431G can do it? Maybe the manual is just an oddity, but it's the only 431 download on the Singer site. Actually there was another download (both labelled 431), but only one worked.

    About teflon -- when heated to high temps (about 500F, I think) teflon produces a vapor that kills birds. It's not good for other living things either, but they don't drop dead from it. (Kinda like the canary in the coal mine phenomenon.) It happens when teflon pans burn on the stove or are overheated in the oven. Since most people don't have birds they don't know it's happening. I don't have birds -- I have cats, but my theory is that teflon is just bad, period. I might be paranoid and phobic but I can't help it. A related problem is that toxic PFOA is produced in the making of teflon. It's in all of our bodies, and it's not good. Here is some info from WebMD and the Washington Post:
    http://www.webmd.com/news/20060127/e...n-chemical-ban
    and
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...012502041.html
    In spite of this, if I had a workshop or a separate room I think I would use it.
    Last edited by Sheluma; 07-18-2013 at 08:17 AM. Reason: changed a 431 to 431G

  9. #79
    Super Member ArchaicArcane's Avatar
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    No worries!! It's really easy to miss it in all the clutter down there.

    In fact, I need to do a little house cleaning, I purged a few of them, traded for something uh,.. not vintage, but equally cool I'll post about later. I was so excited, I've had about 6 hours sleep in 2 days. Hopefully this is coherent, and not alphabet soup I'm typing. I think I'll forgo driving today.

    The plate on the 411G has the finger under the CS plate going in the opposite direction. The T&S plate doesn't physically fit. Correct, the plate and the bobbincase both are harder to find than gilded hen's teeth.

    The 431G chain stitches. It's an amazing machine. Everything the 401 is, plus the Open arm and the CS. If you can get your hands on a working one for under $200, you're doing well. I had to price one of the 2 I had here this week (one of the machines I traded) and couldn't find one on a finished eBay auction for under $200 on the first page of hits,... and a serviced one went for over $400 and as high as $550 before shipping.

    Be warned though, for some reason -both- of the 431Gs I picked up had to be timed to sew 100% correctly. And one of the gals on the Singer Slant yahoo group said hers goes out of time, which I can't understand given how the "underbits" are designed. I think there's something else up there.

    I believe that the bobbin case could be fabricated though. It's basically the case for the 401(500, and I Think some of the T&S machines) with an extra "finger" on it to lift the thread into the CS mechanism. It's just flat metal bent into shape then expoxied into place (it looks like epoxy on the original 411G/ 431G case)

    I don't think many of the manuals designated a G or whatever. The 431 is typically a G, from what I understand, I don't know if they were made anywhere other than Germany (what the G stands for) I typically read "The German 431". That's the manual that came with my 431G. I've seen that there are some manuals (the online ones) floating around that don't have the CS information in them. Sort of like how some of the 221 manuals don't have certain information in them. Perhaps an oversight that lead to a revision later?

    I was being a little facetious about the Teflon. I know it's a nasty substance, hence why I close the door to the "shop". I seem to remember this is why you never heat an empty teflon pan on the stove.

    We often say about most of our animals, "If I hadn't gotten them, natural selection would have". They're sweet, but of the 5 we've had in recent years, 3 of them missed the "brains" line up at the factory. The one that licks machines also likes to sit with her head in the throat of an operating SM and babble at me. Yes, I stop when she tries to jockey into that position. Stunned me the first time. I yelled "DANGER!!" but that didn't stop her long term..
    Tammi - I've found that many baby steps tend to get you further than a huge leap in followed by a huge leap out - http://www.archaicarcane.com
    Singer 411G, 301A, 2x 221 (featherweight), 222k - the holy grail, 99-, 15-90 Centennial, 27, VS2, 28 hc, 128 knee bar, 201-2, 31-15, Pfaff 130-6. Non-Vintage - Pfaff 6122, Kenmore (Janome) 385.81595 serger, Kenmore (Janome) 385.81155, 2013 APQS Lucey

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchaicArcane View Post

    We often say about most of our animals, "If I hadn't gotten them, natural selection would have". They're sweet, but of the 5 we've had in recent years, 3 of them missed the "brains" line up at the factory. The one that licks machines also likes to sit with her head in the throat of an operating SM and babble at me. Yes, I stop when she tries to jockey into that position. Stunned me the first time. I yelled "DANGER!!" but that didn't stop her long term..
    So funny! Certain cats who love attention do funny things. If you're looking at something they want you to look at them instead, so they put themselves in the way. "Oh, you want to read that book? I'll sit on it." "You want to cut that fabric? I'll sit on that, too." Your cat: "You want to sew? I'll put my head next to the needle"

    I just found my T&S attachment box. I bought it for the SS plate and foot for my 401. (I bought my 401 in a thrift and it had no accessories.) The CS finger attaches to the plate on the right side, between the 4 and 5 seam guide marks.

    Thanks for the warning about the timing issues. I could really only afford one if I find it in a thrift or craigslist. Half the thrill is in the hunt and find, so that's okay. Do you happen to have the part numbers for the 411 bobbin case and CS throat plate? My plan now is to try to find them on ebay germany or ebay uk, or italy, etc. Maybe I'll get lucky. I've heard of people having the machines shipped from Europe, but the shipping must cost hundreds!

    I hope you've gotten some sleep, or will soon.

    --Sheila

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