QuiltedButterfly

Hi all,
Forgive me if this topic has been mulled over before. I'm new to the forum, did a search and decided to just Go for it!

I'm a freehand professional longarm quilter of almost 10 years now. I have a 13 yr old Gammill Classic Plus and she's been fairly reliable. I've struggled with the decision to upgrade to a computerized system. To say I have strong opinions about Freehand vs. Computerized is an understatement, but I know it stems from the fact that my livelihood comes from me working at my machine, my ability to create/stitch designs with my own two hands and that it's threatened by computers! I think scribes were once equally as insulted by the printing press lol. Understand that I see the value in computerized quilting (mainly utility/panto-graphs). I know there is skill in the computer work and talent in custom design placement, but I also feel slighted when someone implies a computer driven feather is an equal to the feathers that a human exerted energy to stitch out.

Anyway, I've come to terms with the idea that in order to stay competitive, I should consider adding a computer. I've found the vast majority of customers do not care (some do) if a machine or human runs the stitches as long as their quilt gets put together as quickly and as affordably as possible. So who has upgraded their Gammill with computerized add-ons? Elevate? Intelliquilter? PC quilter etc? Pros? Cons?

Also if you are a professional that does both freehand and computerized, would you mind divulging your pricing structure? I see some bumping their freehand costs up and I'm not sure it would fly in my market.

Thanks in advance!

feline fanatic

Hi and welcome to the board!

I can't help you regarding upgrading to robotics as I too am still "girl powered" and all my work is done by me, not a computer but I do have a stitch regulator and, like you, have strong opinions of hand guided vs robotics driven by a computer as well as an appreciation for the skill set needed by both. Definitely LOL at your comment of scribes and printing presses! So true!

For me, longarming is an outlet for my artistic expression and I just don't feel I would get the same satisfaction out of the quilting I do if it was computer generated. Even if I was digitizing my own original design, there is definitely a factor of satisfaction and yes, a certain amount of pride that what comes off of my rack is pretty much my creation, that would not have come about without me. But I would be lying if I didn't wish all my backtracks were spot on with never a miss and if all my repetitive motifs were exactly the same throughout the quilt.

Just an observation I have, it seems that many who have robotics are getting away from custom work and going strictly end to end or light custom. Additionally it seems there are less and less 100% hand guided people out there who quilt for hire. Yes there are still quite a few but I just seem to see more and more hanging up their hat and just doing their own thing, no more client quilts. I do know that many of the Computer driven (CD) setups have the capability to record hand guided (HG) and replicate it throughout the quilt. I know there are some show quilters out there who have both and mix them up and enjoy watching people try to tell the difference between what is CD and what is HG. I have quietly stood by one of my quilts in a show and listened to people comment that it must be CD, although if they had bothered to read the card it said right on it that all work was hand guided with no computer, other than a stitch regulator.

I have talked to a couple of people who have robotics and with some setups (can't speak for Gammill) that even after disconnecting all the belts that drive the machine head, it is still very heavy for hand guided work so they don't feel they can have the same control and precision. It can be done but takes some getting used to.

Many I have spoken too are elated about the upgrade and would never go back. I have never once talked to someone who said they were sorry they did it. I do quilt for others but only part time and have cut way back on my client quilting so I can enjoy quilting my own. Also I can't say how much longer professional LAQ will be an option. It seems so many people are buying their own midarms or longarms. Glad I don't depend on it for my livelihood.

Battle Axe

Very interesting discussion. Reminds me of the clash of hand quilters vs. machine quilters I run into every time there is a quilt auction in Amish country.

I'd like to know what quiltedbutterfly gets if she upgrades.

I have an APQS millie with no computer, just a stitch regulator. I have tried to stay there and my hips are talking me out of it. It's just too painful. That computer system looks so inviting.

Marcia

cathyvv

I think you are making a good compromise. for yourself. You are right, the people who get their quilts most often want them done,and done well, no matter whether it is freehand or computerized.

bkay

I'm not a long arm quilter, just a client. I'm in a large city in Texas, so what I have to say is not completely related to the pricing structure in PA. Here, computer designs (pantos, edge to edge) run about 2 cents per square inch. Some charge extra for thread, some don't. "Custom" quilting starts at 4 cents per inch and goes up, depending on complexity.

My thought was that maybe you need to redefine your "freehand" quilting as "custom" quilting. I would think it pays more.

bkay

QuiltedButterfly

Thank you Feline Fanatic and Marcia for responding.
If I go this route, I'm leaning toward the Intelliquilter. Seems to do more than the Elevate and I'm scared to death to spend money on a lesser known system.

Feline, oh you hit the nail on the head! There is a great deal of pride to FMQ and I too get that thrill when someone asks "what pattern did you use?" and I say, "This one" while moving my arms as if at my machine. Though I must admit when someone raves about the perfection of CD..I just don't get it. I don't see the artistic attraction in perfect unchanging designs, produced by a non-human entity.

Marcia, health, pain and energy levels are part of the reason I'm willing to make the change. I've had some health hiccups and I find I'm not able to work at my machine for long without totally wasting myself. At this point I fail to see the value in hand guided pantographs.

I remember we had the Hand vs Machine clash in our guild years ago (many of our hand quilters have since passed ). It is quite a revelation when you realize Hand quilting, Freehand Machine and Computer Driven are all just different techniques. As a free-hander I can no more do some computerized designs than I could mimic hand quilting. The problem though, as I see is that as a business owner is how your customers view it. And THAT is one thing that frustrates me to no end. I get asked why my prices are higher (and they really arent for FMQ in my area)..Because I have to stand at my machine! "Why can you not do 'this' design?" they say as they point to worded block filler and then of course my favorite is they want intricate dense designs that CDs have no problem producing but for a FMQ its highlevel work. The industry has changed so much.

QuiltedButterfly

BK, thanks for the pricing comparison, especially as a client! Here in PA I charge .02 for panto. My basic custom (attention to borders, blocks etc) starts at .03. My demographic starts squawking when I ask .035 for more complex work, but I am also in a smaller town outside of Pittsburgh and no one from the city will travel to me.

I usually do call it custom, I've started using the term freehand a lot lately to emphasize the difference in techniques. Cds also use the term "custom" for specialized work.

All in all I think I need to take a step back. I'm much too emotional about my business and this decision. It makes my chest hurt! Lol.

anonymous

I have a innova LA with robotics. I think there is a place for both. I think CD is artistic too, but in a different way. I will never be as talented as some free hand quilters are. I continue to improve with practice, but my brain just isn't wired with all of the artistic neurons that it takes to make the thread sing. If I were you I would add the robotics and save the custom work for clients who truly appreciate the talent, time and skill it takes to create an heirloom. Some clients just want a quilt to use everyday with some pretty quilting and quality stitches. Many of the edge to edge designs are very nice and would fit the bill. You will be more satisfied doing custom work when the client had a choice and chose your artistic talent. I don't think you need to take either of the choices as something that reflects on you personally, but rather as how the person perceives what they envisioned for their quilt and how it will be used. I have only heard good things about the intelliquilter robotics. Good-luck.

tallchick

I don’t quilt for others and probably never will, I have a Fusion and bought the robotics for it last year. I have not even started to learn the robotics, but it is my goal this winter. I’m am not a thread artist and that is why I decided on the robotics, I could get better results for some of my quilts. I envy those that have the natural talent for freehanding, I’m in awe of the work I see. If I want better quilting and more options I need to master my robotics. I still think there is a market for custom freehand work, it’s easy to find someone to do a computerized edge to edge panto.

quiltingshorttimer

Butterfly, I also have a Gammill Classic + 2006, no robotics. When I got it 5yrs ago I thought if I could quilt enough customer quilts to pay for my health insurance I'd be in heaven. Well, that didn't quite happen as my plan skyrocketed (even through COBRA). At 65yr I now could pay my Medicare with my business, but I'm also working about 18hrs per week at PT job and find that I'm not really interested in expanding my business. I've let customers know that I'm not taking any new quilts from customers from Nov. 3 until Jan 3---I'd really like some time to play on my machine on some projects of my own--including trying to couch chenille yarn.
But I do think you are right that to stay competitive--meaning your priceline will draw in those that aren't looking for true custom quilting, you almost need to be computerized. I have two LA friends that have gone that route and are so busy that they have waiting lists a mile long--their results look nice and they are able to price it at about 2cents an inch. Another LA friend has both a Gammill for FMQ and then an Innova with robotics that she puts E2E on and will be working both at the same time--but she also works out of a shop full time. I'm just not in a place that I want to spend another huge amount of $$ on Elevate and no way I could afford a Statler! My friend that just added Intelliquilter to her APQS really is liking it but there was a definite learning curve and she'd worked in IT before retirement. Good luck on this decision--I'm glad I financially can start going in the direction of doing less and less customer quilting and just enjoying my own projects freehand--like you and Feline that is what I most enjoy. (plus since I like lots of detail, I can sit on my drafting stool and not have to stand! LOL)