Featherweight tension trouble
09-25-2013, 10:09 AM
#22
Super Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 1,618
I've been researching for days how to fix my machine's tension. I found this information extremely helpful, however, I really am going to have to take the tension apart. Turning the knob is not affecting the spring at all whatsoever and the material is EXTREMELY hard to pull out of the presser foot area even though the PF is raised and the needle bar is in the highest position.
09-25-2013, 02:23 PM
#23
Super Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Not Here
Posts: 3,817
Hey mpeters1200, what was the result of the tes I described in this post?:
http://www.quiltingboard.com/vintage...ml#post5941686
If it's what I think it is, i.e. it's hugely tight, it's not necessarily a disassembly required, just an adjustment to the upper tensioner. It's also possible you have one other issue at the same time, which is when you lift the PF lever, the pin that the lever mechanism pushes against is either too short, or missing. You should be able to see the tip of it if you remove the faceplate and look right behind the tensioner.
http://www.quiltingboard.com/vintage...ml#post5941686
If it's what I think it is, i.e. it's hugely tight, it's not necessarily a disassembly required, just an adjustment to the upper tensioner. It's also possible you have one other issue at the same time, which is when you lift the PF lever, the pin that the lever mechanism pushes against is either too short, or missing. You should be able to see the tip of it if you remove the faceplate and look right behind the tensioner.
09-28-2013, 04:18 PM
#24
Super Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 1,618
Originally Posted by ArchaicArcane
Usually with the needle flat on the wrong side, the machine will skip stitches.
If the "finger" is in the wrong place, I've usually found that the machine doesn't sew well at all.
You say that the tension on top looks bad, but on the bottom it looks fine?
Which one is happening:
Does the top thread lie flat across the top? - Top tension too tight or bottom too loose.
Top thread in loops on the bottom? Top tension too loose or bottom too tight.
For a quick "fix", you can try to run dental floss between the tension disks and see if it pulls lint or small animals out.
ETA: This would help of the top tension is too loose despite having it cranked up to a really high number.
If that still doesn't do it, depending on what the answer to the question above is (or a photo would be equally great), I may have more suggestions.
Additionally, the dis-assembly instructions are in many (but not all strangely) of the featherweight owner's manuals
This one has it:
http://www.ismacs.net/singer_sewing_...ght-manual.pdf
Found here with a bunch of links to other important 221 manuals:
http://ismacs.net/free-sewing-machin...ls-list.html#S
This one can also demystify some of the tensioner adjustments and setup too:
http://www.tfsr.org/pub/technical_in...echanism_2.pdf
If the "finger" is in the wrong place, I've usually found that the machine doesn't sew well at all.
You say that the tension on top looks bad, but on the bottom it looks fine?
Which one is happening:
Does the top thread lie flat across the top? - Top tension too tight or bottom too loose.
Top thread in loops on the bottom? Top tension too loose or bottom too tight.
For a quick "fix", you can try to run dental floss between the tension disks and see if it pulls lint or small animals out.
ETA: This would help of the top tension is too loose despite having it cranked up to a really high number.
If that still doesn't do it, depending on what the answer to the question above is (or a photo would be equally great), I may have more suggestions.
Additionally, the dis-assembly instructions are in many (but not all strangely) of the featherweight owner's manuals
This one has it:
http://www.ismacs.net/singer_sewing_...ght-manual.pdf
Found here with a bunch of links to other important 221 manuals:
http://ismacs.net/free-sewing-machin...ls-list.html#S
This one can also demystify some of the tensioner adjustments and setup too:
http://www.tfsr.org/pub/technical_in...echanism_2.pdf
2 things are happening. 1, the top tension is extremely tight. Despite double and triple checking needle placement and threading, thread continues to break and the fabric is very hard to remove from under the needle. I've now had to replace the needle a few times because trying to pull the fabric out has bent it. Good point to try and pull the thread without threading the needle first. It's equally hard to do whether the presser foot is up or down.
Secondly, the top thread just lays across the top of the fabric and you can see little dots of bobbin thread. Also, the underneath side is a rats nest. I played around with the TINIEST of turns to the screw on the bobbincase and this just made it worse. I returned it to the original position and then the bobbin thread didn't do that. Is it possible that there's a specific direction you have to put the bobbin into the bobbin case, like the thread wound clockwise versus counter-clockwise?
I'm going to buy dental floss tomorrow. We normally just use floss sticks as my boys are still little enough, or one of them is, to get dental floss all over the bathroom or walk up and down the stairs and it still be attached to him. Thread and yarn meet a similar demise around him.
I'm still looking over the links to the tensioner you've posted above. I am afraid to take the tensioner off entirely, but I'm starting to be concerned that it may be the only answer. I'm going to see what more I can do to it tonight.
09-28-2013, 04:20 PM
#25
Super Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 1,618
Originally Posted by ArchaicArcane
Hey mpeters1200, what was the result of the tes I described in this post?:
http://www.quiltingboard.com/vintage...ml#post5941686
If it's what I think it is, i.e. it's hugely tight, it's not necessarily a disassembly required, just an adjustment to the upper tensioner. It's also possible you have one other issue at the same time, which is when you lift the PF lever, the pin that the lever mechanism pushes against is either too short, or missing. You should be able to see the tip of it if you remove the faceplate and look right behind the tensioner.
http://www.quiltingboard.com/vintage...ml#post5941686
If it's what I think it is, i.e. it's hugely tight, it's not necessarily a disassembly required, just an adjustment to the upper tensioner. It's also possible you have one other issue at the same time, which is when you lift the PF lever, the pin that the lever mechanism pushes against is either too short, or missing. You should be able to see the tip of it if you remove the faceplate and look right behind the tensioner.
I've turned the knob back and forth with no success at all. I'm having a tough time seeing the outer knob insert into a hole. I'm going to go play around with that as well. I'm trying to think of something to loosen it up and I'm just out of ideas.
09-28-2013, 06:28 PM
#26
Super Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 1,618
I got it!! It took a couple hours, but I got it. I went back and reread the manual and read the part about only messing with the tension knob when the pressure bar is DOWN. That did it. I basically turned it all the way to the right and worked it a little bit at a time until it balanced itself out. I can see the little bar come out behind the presser foot bar. I don't think it's perfect yet, but it's really really close. Boy I wish mom could see her machine now.
I took all the thread out of her bobbins tonight. Most of them are in really good condition. Two of them are kinda weird looking. One side is completely flat metal with no holes, the other side is all holes like the regular bobbins. Those two have a layer of rust under the bobbin thread. I'm hoping to salvage them. Otherwise, I have mom's 4 other bobbins and plan on getting some from sew classic.
I took all the thread out of her bobbins tonight. Most of them are in really good condition. Two of them are kinda weird looking. One side is completely flat metal with no holes, the other side is all holes like the regular bobbins. Those two have a layer of rust under the bobbin thread. I'm hoping to salvage them. Otherwise, I have mom's 4 other bobbins and plan on getting some from sew classic.
09-30-2013, 10:01 AM
#27
Super Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Not Here
Posts: 3,817
I know you said you're fixed, but I'd like to leave this for posterity, or in case your problem manifests again.
What number is your tensioner on when the stitch looks OK?
Top tension really tight still makes me think that there's something misassembled in the upper tensioner. Your fixes may be a temporary reprieve, or permanent. If they're temporary, http://mysewingmachineobsession.blogspot.ca has some great tension tutorials. For the moment, I'm having trouble finding the one I'm thinking of, but it's good reading nonetheless.
The fabric being hard to remove, and the thread being hard to pull regardless of the position of the presser foot lever is probably the tension release pin. She goes through a lot about it here:
http://mysewingmachineobsession.blog...-assembly.html
and she's even fabricated pins.
The outer knob has a pin on the backside of it. If you push the ring with the numbers inward toward the body of the machine (make sure the machine is on something stable, they're so light, they will travel before other things will move sometimes) you will see that the numbered ring has a set of holes in it that the pin sits in. To loosen the overall tension of the upper tensioner (which we would do if say the dial read 3 and the thread was breaking), you would push the numbered ring in, and turn the outer knob a part turn or so, make sure it seats in a hole, and then test. You'd repeat this until the tension settings became "sane".
If the nest is "only" for the first several stitches, that's relieved by holding the tails of both threads when you start. The FW insists on this or it builds a nest. If the nests are throughout the seam.... I'm a little confused. I've seen that on a horizontal bobbin when the upper tension is right or even too tight (which is what yours should be doing) but not on a vertical bobbin. Thread laying across the top means top tension too tight, or bottom tension too loose. But we've pretty much determined that your top tension is too tight...
The nests on the bottom are 98% of the time top tension issues. Try threading the machine with 2 different colors to see it. The day I figured that out, my sewing changed for the better forever since. I kept tinkering until I saw that. When I saw it, I knew every time what to do.
Yes, bobbin thread should be loaded in a particular direction. On the FW, it's supposed to unwind counter clock wise.
Dental floss would more likely help you if the upper tension was too loose. Lint holds the disks apart, and therefore not enough pressure is put on the thread, and it slips through too easily.
I have the same problem with thread and floss, etc with the cats around here.
This manual will show you how the tensioner disassembles. It's an owner's manual. It was intended to be user serviceable. http://www.ismacs.net/singer_sewing_...ght-manual.pdf This is perhaps my favorite copy of the FW manual. It shows more than some of the others.
Can you post a photo of the 2 bobbins with a flat side and side with holes? Assuming they're the same size as the FW bobbins, I don't think I've seen them before. If they're smaller, they could be an Elna bobbin, or a class 66 bobbin. Neither of which will work in the FW.
What number is your tensioner on when the stitch looks OK?
Top tension really tight still makes me think that there's something misassembled in the upper tensioner. Your fixes may be a temporary reprieve, or permanent. If they're temporary, http://mysewingmachineobsession.blogspot.ca has some great tension tutorials. For the moment, I'm having trouble finding the one I'm thinking of, but it's good reading nonetheless.
The fabric being hard to remove, and the thread being hard to pull regardless of the position of the presser foot lever is probably the tension release pin. She goes through a lot about it here:
http://mysewingmachineobsession.blog...-assembly.html
and she's even fabricated pins.
The outer knob has a pin on the backside of it. If you push the ring with the numbers inward toward the body of the machine (make sure the machine is on something stable, they're so light, they will travel before other things will move sometimes) you will see that the numbered ring has a set of holes in it that the pin sits in. To loosen the overall tension of the upper tensioner (which we would do if say the dial read 3 and the thread was breaking), you would push the numbered ring in, and turn the outer knob a part turn or so, make sure it seats in a hole, and then test. You'd repeat this until the tension settings became "sane".
If the nest is "only" for the first several stitches, that's relieved by holding the tails of both threads when you start. The FW insists on this or it builds a nest. If the nests are throughout the seam.... I'm a little confused. I've seen that on a horizontal bobbin when the upper tension is right or even too tight (which is what yours should be doing) but not on a vertical bobbin. Thread laying across the top means top tension too tight, or bottom tension too loose. But we've pretty much determined that your top tension is too tight...
The nests on the bottom are 98% of the time top tension issues. Try threading the machine with 2 different colors to see it.
The day I figured that out, my sewing changed for the better forever since. I kept tinkering until I saw that. When I saw it, I knew every time what to do. Yes, bobbin thread should be loaded in a particular direction. On the FW, it's supposed to unwind counter clock wise.
Dental floss would more likely help you if the upper tension was too loose. Lint holds the disks apart, and therefore not enough pressure is put on the thread, and it slips through too easily.
I have the same problem with thread and floss, etc with the cats around here.
This manual will show you how the tensioner disassembles. It's an owner's manual. It was intended to be user serviceable. http://www.ismacs.net/singer_sewing_...ght-manual.pdf This is perhaps my favorite copy of the FW manual. It shows more than some of the others.
Can you post a photo of the 2 bobbins with a flat side and side with holes? Assuming they're the same size as the FW bobbins, I don't think I've seen them before. If they're smaller, they could be an Elna bobbin, or a class 66 bobbin. Neither of which will work in the FW.
10-01-2013, 06:41 AM
#28
Super Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 1,618
I'm going to keep looking at the knob. I cannot push that pin forward and move it. It's all one assembly. The knob you turn and the numbered dial seem to be behaving as if they are all one piece. I am starting to believe this is a temporary fix as sometimes it still snarls up underneath.
So I am using white in the top thread and red/blue verigated in the bobbin thread and now that I can really see what's happening, it looks a bit off still. It's no longer impossible to remove the fabric from the machine when the presser foot is up. I can see small dots of bobbin thread on the top stitching. Periodically, there is a little white loop underneath like a stitch was missed but the thread is underneath instead of up top.
I really do not want to take the tension assembly apart. Looking at the numbered dial compared to other machines online as well as in the instruction manual, it looks like whoever put the knob on, because moms' machine didn't come with one, that was added later, put the stupid thing on upside down. The numbers are completely in a different place than any other machine I've seen. I'll take some yet more pictures and post them as soon as I can either this afternoon or tomorrow afternoon.
I spoke to my aunt who has the tan one. There are two machines. My mother had one and my aunt had the other one. My aunt still has hers, though hasn't used it in forever so hoping she lets me have it so I can refurbish that one too. Anyway, I talked to her. Her machine came with a numbered knob and mom's didn't. She remembers mom taking hers back to the singer shop to have it put on circa 1967 or 68. I have my dial set to 7 to get any stitching to work on it...well between 7 and 8.
So I am using white in the top thread and red/blue verigated in the bobbin thread and now that I can really see what's happening, it looks a bit off still. It's no longer impossible to remove the fabric from the machine when the presser foot is up. I can see small dots of bobbin thread on the top stitching. Periodically, there is a little white loop underneath like a stitch was missed but the thread is underneath instead of up top.
I really do not want to take the tension assembly apart. Looking at the numbered dial compared to other machines online as well as in the instruction manual, it looks like whoever put the knob on, because moms' machine didn't come with one, that was added later, put the stupid thing on upside down. The numbers are completely in a different place than any other machine I've seen. I'll take some yet more pictures and post them as soon as I can either this afternoon or tomorrow afternoon.
I spoke to my aunt who has the tan one. There are two machines. My mother had one and my aunt had the other one. My aunt still has hers, though hasn't used it in forever so hoping she lets me have it so I can refurbish that one too. Anyway, I talked to her. Her machine came with a numbered knob and mom's didn't. She remembers mom taking hers back to the singer shop to have it put on circa 1967 or 68. I have my dial set to 7 to get any stitching to work on it...well between 7 and 8.
10-01-2013, 06:28 PM
#29
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 476
The knob and the numbered ring normally do move as one piece, but you can change the position of the ring. This won't fix actual tension problems, but it will change where the numbers sit. If you look at p22, figure 20 of the manual that Tammi linked to above, it shows the tension assembly "exploded". On the backside of the knob, there is a little pin, "C", that fits into one of many possible holes on the numbered ring, "D". You should be able to push on the ring to disengage it from the pin, "C". Then, you can turn the ring to the number of your choice. For example, if it is stitching medium fabric well on 7, but you think it should be number 4, then push the ring to disengage it from the knob and turn the ring to the left until the number 4 lines up with the line on the indicator. If you can't push the ring then it might be stuck to the knob and you might need to apply a drop of oil just behind the knob. Also, to disassemble the tension you have to push on the ring to free the knob.
That's great that the tension is releasing when you raise the presser foot. You might want to apply a drop of oil to the tension releasing pin, "J" (behind the faceplate, at the back of the tension assembly) to keep it un-stuck.
Don't be afraid of disassembling the tension assembly. The diagrams in the manual are really good. Also, here are a couple of very good blog posts with great pictures . They're for the 201 but it looks the same as the FW.
http://oldsingersewingmachineblog.co...sion-part-one/
http://oldsingersewingmachineblog.co...sion-part-two/
I, too am curious what your bobbins look like. Looking forward to your pictures!
That's great that the tension is releasing when you raise the presser foot. You might want to apply a drop of oil to the tension releasing pin, "J" (behind the faceplate, at the back of the tension assembly) to keep it un-stuck.
Don't be afraid of disassembling the tension assembly. The diagrams in the manual are really good. Also, here are a couple of very good blog posts with great pictures . They're for the 201 but it looks the same as the FW.
http://oldsingersewingmachineblog.co...sion-part-one/
http://oldsingersewingmachineblog.co...sion-part-two/
I, too am curious what your bobbins look like. Looking forward to your pictures!
Last edited by Sheluma; 10-01-2013 at 06:31 PM. Reason: turn ring to left, not right (d'oh!)
10-01-2013, 07:16 PM
#30
Super Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Not Here
Posts: 3,817
Depending on how you do the adjustment, you can actually affect how tight it is, or just the position of the numbers. push the numbered ring in and turn the numbers - adjust the numbering. Push the numbered ring in and turn the silver knob, adjust the tension as a whole.
The numbers on the dial are pretty much arbitrary.
Considering how tight the tension is (7 - 8 is way too tight, assuming a properly adjusted tension mechanism - it should be between 3 and 5 typically), the other reason for nests is a burr somewhere that's not letting go of the thread at the right time. A missed stitch, should only look like a long stitch.
How does the slack thread take-up spring look? if it's mangled or broken, it might be causing the issue, especially if it were to stick in the up position, or be assembled so it stays too high to do its job.
If you're still getting pokies of bobbin thread at the top, you still have room to lower the upper tension.
Can I convince you to step through this blog post?
http://www.archaicarcane.com/fragile...-equal-stress/
The numbers on the dial are pretty much arbitrary.
Considering how tight the tension is (7 - 8 is way too tight, assuming a properly adjusted tension mechanism - it should be between 3 and 5 typically), the other reason for nests is a burr somewhere that's not letting go of the thread at the right time. A missed stitch, should only look like a long stitch.
How does the slack thread take-up spring look? if it's mangled or broken, it might be causing the issue, especially if it were to stick in the up position, or be assembled so it stays too high to do its job.
If you're still getting pokies of bobbin thread at the top, you still have room to lower the upper tension.
Can I convince you to step through this blog post?
http://www.archaicarcane.com/fragile...-equal-stress/
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
