Am I stealing? Or just borrowing?
10-15-2008, 05:20 PM
#51
Super Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 5,552
Originally Posted by Marcia
I agree. I have seen quilts or blocks that I thought "Hey, I can make that" without purchasing the pattern. I often get ideas from other quilts I see. I do not think it is stealing. I call it inspiration.
Originally Posted by Janeen
ok, say you design a NEW block (hard to do in this day and age) and you LOVE IT.. and again, you agonize over the color/fabric/quilting choices and when finished you have a gorgeous one-of-a-kind quilt that you are so proud of, and every body who sees it says, 'WOW that's fantastic!'
and you post a photo on here because, naturally you are tickled to death with it and so proud of it, and have never done anything quite so gorgeous in your life and are fit to burst with joy over the thing...
and two weeks later somebody else who said, 'wow, I love that and I can do that' posts an identical quilt...
that's what it's all about... are you going to say, 'hey, that's fine, I'm flattered' or are you going to say, 'wait a minute, that was MY personal design' ??
and you post a photo on here because, naturally you are tickled to death with it and so proud of it, and have never done anything quite so gorgeous in your life and are fit to burst with joy over the thing...
and two weeks later somebody else who said, 'wow, I love that and I can do that' posts an identical quilt...
that's what it's all about... are you going to say, 'hey, that's fine, I'm flattered' or are you going to say, 'wait a minute, that was MY personal design' ??
I would NEVER begin to even dream about stealing someone else's original idea. When I said "Hey I can make that without purchasing a pattern" I was not referrring to anything original. I get ideas for quilts by looking at an interesting layout for log cabin blocks (like Shelley or gcathie or bebe's quilts) or using a very large single star block as an entire lap quilt (like Tigerbaby), or using a combination of two public domain blocks that together make an unusual pattern.
I would not need to purchase a pattern for these quilts because the blocks are free for the taking on the internet. I am smart enough to do the math to change dimensions to meet my own needs. THIS is what I meant about it being inspiration and not stealing.
If ANYONE on this board took my comments to be anything other than this, I apologize to you. I have a room full of books, patterns and magazines that attest to the fact that I have pretty much never had an original quilting idea in my life and am willing to pay handsomely for those who do :D
I am sorry to see that sspingler deleted all her photos from the board and quit. I am sure that it was not anyone's intention to offend her. If I played a part in it, then I am sorry. :cry:
10-16-2008, 12:03 PM
#52
Super Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Northern California
Posts: 1,240
Lucky Patsy's "Mom wrote:
Technique or style is not protected under copyright laws, so it is permissible to make a quilt inspired by Picasso's work or style because it will be substantially different from the original.
Not true. This is called "derivative work" and the copyright laws are very specific about it. You cannot just change colors or even the medium and be worry free. Here are some copyright myths explained.
http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html
Artists in all media have to expose their art to the public in order to eat. It's that simple. They have the right to be protected from those who copy their ideas and claim them as their own. Most of us will grant individuals sigular use of the work, be it a quilt pattern or graphic image or whatever, but you do not have the right to assume it has been granted just because we put it out to public view. To have your work copied without receiving acknowledgement for your efforts, be it financial or other recognition, is not a compliment. It is stealing.
Technique or style is not protected under copyright laws, so it is permissible to make a quilt inspired by Picasso's work or style because it will be substantially different from the original.
Not true. This is called "derivative work" and the copyright laws are very specific about it. You cannot just change colors or even the medium and be worry free. Here are some copyright myths explained.
http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html
Artists in all media have to expose their art to the public in order to eat. It's that simple. They have the right to be protected from those who copy their ideas and claim them as their own. Most of us will grant individuals sigular use of the work, be it a quilt pattern or graphic image or whatever, but you do not have the right to assume it has been granted just because we put it out to public view. To have your work copied without receiving acknowledgement for your efforts, be it financial or other recognition, is not a compliment. It is stealing.
10-16-2008, 12:18 PM
#53
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 590
Originally Posted by Lucky Patsy's "Mom"
Lucky Patsy's "Mom wrote:
Technique or style is not protected under copyright laws, so it is permissible to make a quilt inspired by Picasso's work or style because it will be substantially different from the original.
Not true. This is called "derivative work" and the copyright laws are very specific about it. You cannot just change colors or even the medium and be worry free. Here are some copyright myths explained.
http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html
Artists in all media have to expose their art to the public in order to eat. It's that simple. They have the right to be protected from those who copy their ideas and claim them as their own. Most of us will grant individuals sigular use of the work, be it a quilt pattern or graphic image or whatever, but you do not have the right to assume it has been granted just because we put it out to public view. To have your work copied without receiving acknowledgement for your efforts, be it financial or other recognition, is not a compliment. It is stealing.
Technique or style is not protected under copyright laws, so it is permissible to make a quilt inspired by Picasso's work or style because it will be substantially different from the original.
Not true. This is called "derivative work" and the copyright laws are very specific about it. You cannot just change colors or even the medium and be worry free. Here are some copyright myths explained.
http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html
Artists in all media have to expose their art to the public in order to eat. It's that simple. They have the right to be protected from those who copy their ideas and claim them as their own. Most of us will grant individuals sigular use of the work, be it a quilt pattern or graphic image or whatever, but you do not have the right to assume it has been granted just because we put it out to public view. To have your work copied without receiving acknowledgement for your efforts, be it financial or other recognition, is not a compliment. It is stealing.
You are correct, and just because you read it in a magazine it isnt always correct..I have read the copyright laws and review some of the law suits brought about and the decisions handed down.
The hard part of all of this is it is intrepretation of the law. and from personal experience that is very subjective, and all judges do not objectivly apply the laws..
The best course of action is to use your common sense and dont copy something that is unique or appears unique unless you ask.. simple. If you ask and get a yes, you are good to go, if you get a no, move on to something else.. and if it comes from your own creativity, just go for it.
10-16-2008, 12:57 PM
#54
Power Poster
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: East Oklahoma - pining for Massachusetts
Posts: 10,477
I once saw a quilt at a show with Jack-o-lanterns on it. I was too shy to take a picture (it was in a vendor's booth) so I stared at it for a bit and went home and did this. I traced some of my Halloween decorations and drew the vine free hand. I like mine as well as the one at the show.
10-16-2008, 01:17 PM
#55
Super Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,524
Judy,
Would you consider what Boston did "stealing"? I have done this also.
I must say I too am a little nervous of posting things here now. I don't want to get in trouble for "stealing". My dh just came in and said he dropped and broke our camera so I won't be posting pictures anyway. Wish I could LOL.
How is this different from recipes? I have recipes for KFC chicken and their coleslaw. I have Neiman Marcus chocolate chip cookies. etc.
I am really confused now.
Would you consider what Boston did "stealing"? I have done this also.
I must say I too am a little nervous of posting things here now. I don't want to get in trouble for "stealing". My dh just came in and said he dropped and broke our camera so I won't be posting pictures anyway. Wish I could LOL.
How is this different from recipes? I have recipes for KFC chicken and their coleslaw. I have Neiman Marcus chocolate chip cookies. etc.
I am really confused now.
10-16-2008, 01:37 PM
#56
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 590
Originally Posted by mary quite contrary
Judy,
Would you consider what Boston did "stealing"? I have done this also.
I must say I too am a little nervous of posting things here now. I don't want to get in trouble for "stealing". My dh just came in and said he dropped and broke our camera so I won't be posting pictures anyway. Wish I could LOL.
How is this different from recipes? I have recipes for KFC chicken and their coleslaw. I have Neiman Marcus chocolate chip cookies. etc.
I am really confused now.
Would you consider what Boston did "stealing"? I have done this also.
I must say I too am a little nervous of posting things here now. I don't want to get in trouble for "stealing". My dh just came in and said he dropped and broke our camera so I won't be posting pictures anyway. Wish I could LOL.
How is this different from recipes? I have recipes for KFC chicken and their coleslaw. I have Neiman Marcus chocolate chip cookies. etc.
I am really confused now.
Please know that I am in no way an expert... I have read the law, it is available online for anyone to read... I have also reviewed some of the results of others suits..
So, this is my opinion only....
I think that what Boston did is a very grey area in this issue.. did she steal? no, she drew her own design based on one she saw.. she didnt even take a picture.. did she copy, yes, she copied the basic idea... is it against the law.. .dont know, is she selling her version of the pattern? I dont think so.. so will she get in trouble, Im going to say no...
But, here is what I have seen happen..
Someone designed a very unique quilt for which they received awards and recognition. Photos were published in a magazine, but no pattern.
Some time later, at a quilt show, a very close copy was noticed hanging in the show..It was definately a copy and that person was prosecuted for copyright infringement.
I really dont want to influence people from excersizing their creativity nor from sharing their projects.. I have not taken my pictures down from this board and do not intend to..
I do have patterns for some of my projects that I sell. And I have noticed that some of the pictures of those projects have been downloaded from this board...If I were to see that quilt or pattern being sold somewhere, I would have a case for copyright infringement. If I see someone has made it, how would I know if they bought the pattern or not? I don't.
So a lot of people copy in many forms as the technology today makes it easy. Grab the pic, enlarge, make a tracing and whalaa you have my pattern.. I figure if you want to go to that much trouble rather than pay me the $4.50 I charge for my patterns.. you got more time than money and you have a problem and I cant stop you
I cant sell patterns without posting pictures of the project.. so it is a risk we all have to take...
I dont think that we should be afraid to show our work...
I have tried to figure out how to post my pics in the HTML instead of the attachments, but havent figured it out yet..
And I do have questions for admin about some of the language about using this board and posting on it.. but that is another matter
10-16-2008, 01:43 PM
#57
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 590
Originally Posted by mary quite contrary
How is this different from recipes? I have recipes for KFC chicken and their coleslaw. I have Neiman Marcus chocolate chip cookies. etc.
If you got the recipe out of a cookbook, then I expect KFC and Neiman Marcus have been handsomely paid for their recipe..
Oh and you cant use their name.. You cant make chicken and sell it as KFC.. You also cant publish the old newspaper patterns and call them KC Star patterns.. they will come and get you for that...
10-16-2008, 01:49 PM
#58
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 590
Keep in mind, too, Mary,
Bostons quilt is using a very common theme and how many uinique pumpkins are there, or fences, etc.. just like quilt blocks....
They are very common and have been around for a long time.. and most are in the public domain... You are not going to have a problem drafting your own version of a common (and sometimes not so common) quilt block.
You aren't even going to have a problem reproducing a quilt layout, border, sashing, etc. They are way to common to be considered someones unique work..
Go create and have fun and don't worry.. and be considerate of other peoples' work.. If you want to make a tracing or otherwise reproduce someones drawings, ask them...and give them credit..
You will feel very good to say "I was inspired by xxx and I have permission from the artist to use their image"
Bostons quilt is using a very common theme and how many uinique pumpkins are there, or fences, etc.. just like quilt blocks....
They are very common and have been around for a long time.. and most are in the public domain... You are not going to have a problem drafting your own version of a common (and sometimes not so common) quilt block.
You aren't even going to have a problem reproducing a quilt layout, border, sashing, etc. They are way to common to be considered someones unique work..
Go create and have fun and don't worry.. and be considerate of other peoples' work.. If you want to make a tracing or otherwise reproduce someones drawings, ask them...and give them credit..
You will feel very good to say "I was inspired by xxx and I have permission from the artist to use their image"
10-16-2008, 01:58 PM
#59
Super Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,524
I appreciate all you do Judy.
Boston, I was just using you as an example because yours was right there.
I have been enjoying this board very much and appreciate the opinions voiced here and realize that is all they are. I'm not in the market of selling patterns or even selling quilts for that matter so I figure I'm good.
Boston, I was just using you as an example because yours was right there.
I have been enjoying this board very much and appreciate the opinions voiced here and realize that is all they are. I'm not in the market of selling patterns or even selling quilts for that matter so I figure I'm good.
05-01-2010, 06:16 PM
#60
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: So. Maine
Posts: 176
Reminds me of a situation here locally with a sandwich shop...this shop was in business for many decades. The line each day went around the block. The owner finally retired and closed shop - he didn't want anyone to take over and possibly make lesser products - didn't want his name associated with it.
Well, some of the employees decided to open a shop (similar name) since they already knew how to make those sandwiches...there are whisperings of legal problems - why? not because they made a similar sandwich, but because they implied that it was the same and only the name had changed.
I agree with the public domain issues of traditional or published patterns. I think a lot of the concerns have to do with whether you are intimating that it is your original design. Often you have to sign a declaration stating whether it is an original design or if you have permission to use it - especially if it being published. If you use other ideas for your project and give credit where it is due (or preferably get permission)you are usually ok - after all, it is almost never an exact duplicate! But each individual needs to decide for themselves where their artistic ethics lie....
Well, some of the employees decided to open a shop (similar name) since they already knew how to make those sandwiches...there are whisperings of legal problems - why? not because they made a similar sandwich, but because they implied that it was the same and only the name had changed.
I agree with the public domain issues of traditional or published patterns. I think a lot of the concerns have to do with whether you are intimating that it is your original design. Often you have to sign a declaration stating whether it is an original design or if you have permission to use it - especially if it being published. If you use other ideas for your project and give credit where it is due (or preferably get permission)you are usually ok - after all, it is almost never an exact duplicate! But each individual needs to decide for themselves where their artistic ethics lie....
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