Answer to the Walmart "quality of fabric" email
10-24-2010, 09:17 AM
#91
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Southeast Georgia, USA
Posts: 9,097
not all fabrics "everywhere" are the same as all available "anywhere", let alone the same as "everywhere else".
small, locally owned quilt shops (LQS) will most likely stock fabrics that fall at the high end of the spectrum in terms of their customers' preferences. the owners are usually first in line for the newest lines from the top manufacturers. if you think of quilt shops as clothing stores, they can be reasonably compared to Nieman Marcus, Saks Fifth Avenue, etc. they carry the haute couture "designer fashions".
while i know from personal experience that a small percentage of fabs purchased from an LQS will turn out to be disappointing in quality and performance, it should be fairly noted that in general this is not the case.
it isn't unusual for products in an LQS to be priced at the highest end of the spectrum, as well. they need to be located in areas of the community best suited to attracting customers who can afford to shop there on a regular basis. that means very high rent, for starters. a very important factor is that they cannot afford to buy too many bolts of the same fabric ahead of time. they lose the advantage of volume pricing when building their stock. add to that utility expenses, marketing and advertising costs, personnel costs, and the need to offer substantial discounts at least occassionally, and you can see why they have no choice but to charge higher prices if they want to keep the lights on and the doors open.
a chain store, on the other hand can buy googobs of anything they chose to stock. they start off with the pricing advantage. the fabric department is likely only a portion of the total operation. they can afford to grow or shrink it; rearrange the percentage of which types of fabric they carry; and to carry products found across the entire spectrum of consumer preferences. they can afford to stock fabrics that fit the budgets of the whole consumer population.
they are the TJ Max, Marshall's, and Beal's Outlet of the fabric world. you will find within their walls everything from famous name designers to the little heard of manufacturers. and - yes - you will sometimes find the exact same fabric $3 per yard that you saw elsewhere for double or triple the price. that is not always and only the case, but it is an extremely fortunate circumstance for those who have to shop with great care on a very tight budget.
it's also true that not all chain stores offer classes or special activities. they are trying to attract and serve a large number of customers they hope will all be in the store at the same time. they often have a high turnover among their employees because they don't pay well. the range of knowledge and experience may not be the same as you'll find in a good LQS. that means you may not always get the very personal and time consuming attention you can count on in a good LQS.
not all fabrics are created equal. therefore, when you shop at a chain, you will find a wide selection that includes everything from fabs that feel like silk to those that feel like sandpaper. when you shop at an LQS, the fabrics will almost always feel silky and luxurious. on rare occassions, they just won't perform as wonderfully as they feel.
because you can find diamonds and rhinestones no matter where you shop it's important to keep an open mind and to take advantage of every affordable opportunity to sample what's available from as many manufacturers and retail sources as possible. over time you will learn what you like and what you don't. you can then freely choose to purchase those things from the retail source that best meets all your individual needs as a consumer and a quilter.
small, locally owned quilt shops (LQS) will most likely stock fabrics that fall at the high end of the spectrum in terms of their customers' preferences. the owners are usually first in line for the newest lines from the top manufacturers. if you think of quilt shops as clothing stores, they can be reasonably compared to Nieman Marcus, Saks Fifth Avenue, etc. they carry the haute couture "designer fashions".
while i know from personal experience that a small percentage of fabs purchased from an LQS will turn out to be disappointing in quality and performance, it should be fairly noted that in general this is not the case.
it isn't unusual for products in an LQS to be priced at the highest end of the spectrum, as well. they need to be located in areas of the community best suited to attracting customers who can afford to shop there on a regular basis. that means very high rent, for starters. a very important factor is that they cannot afford to buy too many bolts of the same fabric ahead of time. they lose the advantage of volume pricing when building their stock. add to that utility expenses, marketing and advertising costs, personnel costs, and the need to offer substantial discounts at least occassionally, and you can see why they have no choice but to charge higher prices if they want to keep the lights on and the doors open.
a chain store, on the other hand can buy googobs of anything they chose to stock. they start off with the pricing advantage. the fabric department is likely only a portion of the total operation. they can afford to grow or shrink it; rearrange the percentage of which types of fabric they carry; and to carry products found across the entire spectrum of consumer preferences. they can afford to stock fabrics that fit the budgets of the whole consumer population.
they are the TJ Max, Marshall's, and Beal's Outlet of the fabric world. you will find within their walls everything from famous name designers to the little heard of manufacturers. and - yes - you will sometimes find the exact same fabric $3 per yard that you saw elsewhere for double or triple the price. that is not always and only the case, but it is an extremely fortunate circumstance for those who have to shop with great care on a very tight budget.
it's also true that not all chain stores offer classes or special activities. they are trying to attract and serve a large number of customers they hope will all be in the store at the same time. they often have a high turnover among their employees because they don't pay well. the range of knowledge and experience may not be the same as you'll find in a good LQS. that means you may not always get the very personal and time consuming attention you can count on in a good LQS.
not all fabrics are created equal. therefore, when you shop at a chain, you will find a wide selection that includes everything from fabs that feel like silk to those that feel like sandpaper. when you shop at an LQS, the fabrics will almost always feel silky and luxurious. on rare occassions, they just won't perform as wonderfully as they feel.
because you can find diamonds and rhinestones no matter where you shop it's important to keep an open mind and to take advantage of every affordable opportunity to sample what's available from as many manufacturers and retail sources as possible. over time you will learn what you like and what you don't. you can then freely choose to purchase those things from the retail source that best meets all your individual needs as a consumer and a quilter.
10-24-2010, 11:54 AM
#92
Super Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: was Upstate NY, now NC & TN
Posts: 2,328
I can confirm QKO's assertion about WM and the way they deal with suppliers. I used to work with a major supplier to WM and they do start out by setting a price point they will buy at. Suppliers will often agree even if they lose $$ or make very little hoping that they will eventually be able to increase the price. When they realize that they will not be able to increase price (indeed WM will begin pressuring them to decrease almost immediately), they either have to find a way to manufacture more cheaply or stop supplying.
The problem with discontinuing the relationship with WM is that WM may very well stop carrying all products by that supplier. So there is tremendous pressure to find a way to supply at a lower cost and that usually means a decrease in quality to survive.
I am not a WM hater but it wields a lot of power in the marketplace. Most of the time, there is not a similar level of power to its suppliers.
The problem with discontinuing the relationship with WM is that WM may very well stop carrying all products by that supplier. So there is tremendous pressure to find a way to supply at a lower cost and that usually means a decrease in quality to survive.
I am not a WM hater but it wields a lot of power in the marketplace. Most of the time, there is not a similar level of power to its suppliers.
10-24-2010, 01:30 PM
#93
Super Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Outer Space
Posts: 9,319
I'm busy cutting out flannel rag quilt kits to post later this week for sale and I bought some fabric from Joannes on Fri. night. I was very surprised to now see David Textiles there. I'd seen Alexander Henry, Kauffman, Blank and Michael Miller, but now D.T. too. I'm aware D.T. is selling at WM, but I'd not seen any at Joannes before. It seems more and more manufacturers are going main stream. This is merely an observation and nothing more than that.
10-24-2010, 02:32 PM
#94
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Washburn, North Dakota
Posts: 257
I think your right, but it's economic survival, even Macy's is coming 'affordable'. I still love quilting, no matter what name, what fabric, where it is, just look it over and choose... I like fabric because it works well with a quilt project, or colors/theme, and not necessarily by name or price or place.
Actually, I like the old fashion idea of quilts, recycled from used items.. jeans, flannel shirts, prom/wedding dresses, mens silk ties & suite hankies, ladies fancy hankies, it's fun to discover how these work into quilts. And I have a pretty good fabric stash in yards, not big on FQs, and have no idea why I bought 10 yrds sometimes but someday, guess it will work it's way into a project. If I sewn only from my stash & kits, I'd sew for the next 30-40 yrs without buying anything more... why do we continue to buy? (Because we didn't buy that fabric yet ;-) don't tell hubby, he's already looked into the sewing room and questions my reasoning. Isn't it fun :thumbup:
Actually, I like the old fashion idea of quilts, recycled from used items.. jeans, flannel shirts, prom/wedding dresses, mens silk ties & suite hankies, ladies fancy hankies, it's fun to discover how these work into quilts. And I have a pretty good fabric stash in yards, not big on FQs, and have no idea why I bought 10 yrds sometimes but someday, guess it will work it's way into a project. If I sewn only from my stash & kits, I'd sew for the next 30-40 yrs without buying anything more... why do we continue to buy? (Because we didn't buy that fabric yet ;-) don't tell hubby, he's already looked into the sewing room and questions my reasoning. Isn't it fun :thumbup:
10-24-2010, 03:52 PM
#95
Super Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Sparta, TN
Posts: 1,211
Originally Posted by stevendebbie25
I think your right, but it's economic survival, even Macy's is coming 'affordable'. I still love quilting, no matter what name, what fabric, where it is, just look it over and choose... I like fabric because it works well with a quilt project, or colors/theme, and not necessarily by name or price or place.
Actually, I like the old fashion idea of quilts, recycled from used items.. jeans, flannel shirts, prom/wedding dresses, mens silk ties & suite hankies, ladies fancy hankies, it's fun to discover how these work into quilts. And I have a pretty good fabric stash in yards, not big on FQs, and have no idea why I bought 10 yrds sometimes but someday, guess it will work it's way into a project. If I sewn only from my stash & kits, I'd sew for the next 30-40 yrs without buying anything more... why do we continue to buy? (Because we didn't buy that fabric yet ;-) don't tell hubby, he's already looked into the sewing room and questions my reasoning. Isn't it fun :thumbup:
Actually, I like the old fashion idea of quilts, recycled from used items.. jeans, flannel shirts, prom/wedding dresses, mens silk ties & suite hankies, ladies fancy hankies, it's fun to discover how these work into quilts. And I have a pretty good fabric stash in yards, not big on FQs, and have no idea why I bought 10 yrds sometimes but someday, guess it will work it's way into a project. If I sewn only from my stash & kits, I'd sew for the next 30-40 yrs without buying anything more... why do we continue to buy? (Because we didn't buy that fabric yet ;-) don't tell hubby, he's already looked into the sewing room and questions my reasoning. Isn't it fun :thumbup:
10-25-2010, 05:49 AM
#96
Super Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In Hiding
Posts: 1,210
Originally Posted by PatriceJ
not all fabrics "everywhere" are the same as all available "anywhere", let alone the same as "everywhere else".
small, locally owned quilt shops (LQS) will most likely stock fabrics that fall at the high end of the spectrum in terms of their customers' preferences. the owners are usually first in line for the newest lines from the top manufacturers. if you think of quilt shops as clothing stores, they can be reasonably compared to Nieman Marcus, Saks Fifth Avenue, etc. they carry the haute couture "designer fashions".
while i know from personal experience that a small percentage of fabs purchased from an LQS will turn out to be disappointing in quality and performance, it should be fairly noted that in general this is not the case.
it isn't unusual for products in an LQS to be priced at the highest end of the spectrum, as well. they need to be located in areas of the community best suited to attracting customers who can afford to shop there on a regular basis. that means very high rent, for starters. a very important factor is that they cannot afford to buy too many bolts of the same fabric ahead of time. they lose the advantage of volume pricing when building their stock. add to that utility expenses, marketing and advertising costs, personnel costs, and the need to offer substantial discounts at least occassionally, and you can see why they have no choice but to charge higher prices if they want to keep the lights on and the doors open.
a chain store, on the other hand can buy googobs of anything they chose to stock. they start off with the pricing advantage. the fabric department is likely only a portion of the total operation. they can afford to grow or shrink it; rearrange the percentage of which types of fabric they carry; and to carry products found across the entire spectrum of consumer preferences. they can afford to stock fabrics that fit the budgets of the whole consumer population.
they are the TJ Max, Marshall's, and Beal's Outlet of the fabric world. you will find within their walls everything from famous name designers to the little heard of manufacturers. and - yes - you will sometimes find the exact same fabric $3 per yard that you saw elsewhere for double or triple the price. that is not always and only the case, but it is an extremely fortunate circumstance for those who have to shop with great care on a very tight budget.
it's also true that not all chain stores offer classes or special activities. they are trying to attract and serve a large number of customers they hope will all be in the store at the same time. they often have a high turnover among their employees because they don't pay well. the range of knowledge and experience may not be the same as you'll find in a good LQS. that means you may not always get the very personal and time consuming attention you can count on in a good LQS.
not all fabrics are created equal. therefore, when you shop at a chain, you will find a wide selection that includes everything from fabs that feel like silk to those that feel like sandpaper. when you shop at an LQS, the fabrics will almost always feel silky and luxurious. on rare occassions, they just won't perform as wonderfully as they feel.
because you can find diamonds and rhinestones no matter where you shop it's important to keep an open mind and to take advantage of every affordable opportunity to sample what's available from as many manufacturers and retail sources as possible. over time you will learn what you like and what you don't. you can then freely choose to purchase those things from the retail source that best meets all your individual needs as a consumer and a quilter.
small, locally owned quilt shops (LQS) will most likely stock fabrics that fall at the high end of the spectrum in terms of their customers' preferences. the owners are usually first in line for the newest lines from the top manufacturers. if you think of quilt shops as clothing stores, they can be reasonably compared to Nieman Marcus, Saks Fifth Avenue, etc. they carry the haute couture "designer fashions".
while i know from personal experience that a small percentage of fabs purchased from an LQS will turn out to be disappointing in quality and performance, it should be fairly noted that in general this is not the case.
it isn't unusual for products in an LQS to be priced at the highest end of the spectrum, as well. they need to be located in areas of the community best suited to attracting customers who can afford to shop there on a regular basis. that means very high rent, for starters. a very important factor is that they cannot afford to buy too many bolts of the same fabric ahead of time. they lose the advantage of volume pricing when building their stock. add to that utility expenses, marketing and advertising costs, personnel costs, and the need to offer substantial discounts at least occassionally, and you can see why they have no choice but to charge higher prices if they want to keep the lights on and the doors open.
a chain store, on the other hand can buy googobs of anything they chose to stock. they start off with the pricing advantage. the fabric department is likely only a portion of the total operation. they can afford to grow or shrink it; rearrange the percentage of which types of fabric they carry; and to carry products found across the entire spectrum of consumer preferences. they can afford to stock fabrics that fit the budgets of the whole consumer population.
they are the TJ Max, Marshall's, and Beal's Outlet of the fabric world. you will find within their walls everything from famous name designers to the little heard of manufacturers. and - yes - you will sometimes find the exact same fabric $3 per yard that you saw elsewhere for double or triple the price. that is not always and only the case, but it is an extremely fortunate circumstance for those who have to shop with great care on a very tight budget.
it's also true that not all chain stores offer classes or special activities. they are trying to attract and serve a large number of customers they hope will all be in the store at the same time. they often have a high turnover among their employees because they don't pay well. the range of knowledge and experience may not be the same as you'll find in a good LQS. that means you may not always get the very personal and time consuming attention you can count on in a good LQS.
not all fabrics are created equal. therefore, when you shop at a chain, you will find a wide selection that includes everything from fabs that feel like silk to those that feel like sandpaper. when you shop at an LQS, the fabrics will almost always feel silky and luxurious. on rare occassions, they just won't perform as wonderfully as they feel.
because you can find diamonds and rhinestones no matter where you shop it's important to keep an open mind and to take advantage of every affordable opportunity to sample what's available from as many manufacturers and retail sources as possible. over time you will learn what you like and what you don't. you can then freely choose to purchase those things from the retail source that best meets all your individual needs as a consumer and a quilter.
Oh Patrice...your wisdom and observations are all so very true!
10-25-2010, 06:55 AM
#97
Super Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: AZ/Utah border
Posts: 2,345
Now I have a question. If the fabric is the same, why is the selvage "better" at quilting stores? The wal mart fabric has many of the colored dots cut off or in half. I still think it's first run to work out the "bugs". I buy it when the project I am working merits that. I seldom buy anything except a few mixers due to using my my stash anyway.
10-25-2010, 07:14 AM
#98
Power Poster
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 11,905
Originally Posted by Scissor Queen
The quilt stores I shop in won't stock anything you can buy in a Walmart. Walmart does not stock Moda, Hoffman, Kaufman, RJR, and a long list of other manufacturers.
10-25-2010, 07:29 AM
#99
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 611
Originally Posted by SaraSewing
Now I have a question. If the fabric is the same, why is the selvage "better" at quilting stores? The wal mart fabric has many of the colored dots cut off or in half. I still think it's first run to work out the "bugs". I buy it when the project I am working merits that. I seldom buy anything except a few mixers due to using my my stash anyway.
I've not seen any of the dots cut off, or cut in half in the selvedges. That was probably, simply, a mistake. Mistakes can happen with any thing, any brand, any store, etc.
10-25-2010, 07:34 AM
#100
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 611
Originally Posted by QKO
Now that all the drama is over in this thread, I feel like contributing.
First, you need to understand how WM buys fabric, indeed, how it buys everything. Whereas you and I go into a store (or if we're fabric buyers we go into a distributor or manufacturer,) and that dist or manufacturer tells us what the price will be. Unless we're buying a lot, or have really good relationships with the seller, we're going to pay the price they demand. If we as buyers are dumb enough to pay high prices for lower quality goods, and btw all of us have done it a few times, you'll see lower quality goods in your LQS. There is very little variation in first line goods pricing between good stuff and bad stuff to the LQS from the dists/manfct's.
When WM buys stuff, the sellers go to them, WM tells them the price point they'll buy at, and the seller decides if they can sell at that price or how they can change their manufacturing stream to meet that price point. Many sellers will sell at a loss to WM, at first, just to get in the door. This is how you occasionally find higher quality goods at WM, but with continued price pressure on the seller, they usually find a way to manufacture them more cheaply, or have specific lines manufactured at a lower cost (and subsequent lower quality) to meet WM's pricing demands.
This is a critical difference, and is the reason there is so much quality variation in the products you see at WM.
This is also the reason why you see a lot of goods appear in WM only to disappear after a short time. The seller took one shot with them and then decided they were tired of losing money or didn't want to lower their quality to meet WM's pricing demands.
We've also seen instances where WM has sold counterfeit goods, probably unintentionally.
The problem, as a fabric seller, that I have is that the brands that do a lot of business with WM tend to cheapen all their goods over time, and this has happened with several manufacturers previously mentioned in this thread. If you go to a buyers market, you'll see very little activity around their booths, because most of the small shop owners prefer not to carry these brands.
So, if you see a genuine fabric that's the same in WM as in the LQS, it will indeed be the same fabric, although it may be an older, closeout fabric. Same thing with online stores that specialize in closeouts.
But the other side of this is you probably won't find many of the fabrics that WM buys a lot of (names deleted to protect ME) in LQS's. Most savvy LQS shop buyers tend to stay away from these and some others because they (like us) have been burned by these in the past. We see a lot of these fabrics only on paper before they're released, then when we get the final product, they're just junk and we're forced to either close them out or donate them for charity quilts. I know there are several manufacturers products I won't even consider anymore because I can't trust what I'm going to get from them.
The bottom line for the retail buyer is to examine carefully what you're getting, no matter where you buy it. And if you buy something online that is sub-par when you receive it (assuming you didn't get it at a really low closeout price), don't be afraid to send it back and state to the seller why you're sending it back. The higher end online stores are like the high-end quilt shops. They don't want to sell junk.
First, you need to understand how WM buys fabric, indeed, how it buys everything. Whereas you and I go into a store (or if we're fabric buyers we go into a distributor or manufacturer,) and that dist or manufacturer tells us what the price will be. Unless we're buying a lot, or have really good relationships with the seller, we're going to pay the price they demand. If we as buyers are dumb enough to pay high prices for lower quality goods, and btw all of us have done it a few times, you'll see lower quality goods in your LQS. There is very little variation in first line goods pricing between good stuff and bad stuff to the LQS from the dists/manfct's.
When WM buys stuff, the sellers go to them, WM tells them the price point they'll buy at, and the seller decides if they can sell at that price or how they can change their manufacturing stream to meet that price point. Many sellers will sell at a loss to WM, at first, just to get in the door. This is how you occasionally find higher quality goods at WM, but with continued price pressure on the seller, they usually find a way to manufacture them more cheaply, or have specific lines manufactured at a lower cost (and subsequent lower quality) to meet WM's pricing demands.
This is a critical difference, and is the reason there is so much quality variation in the products you see at WM.
This is also the reason why you see a lot of goods appear in WM only to disappear after a short time. The seller took one shot with them and then decided they were tired of losing money or didn't want to lower their quality to meet WM's pricing demands.
We've also seen instances where WM has sold counterfeit goods, probably unintentionally.
The problem, as a fabric seller, that I have is that the brands that do a lot of business with WM tend to cheapen all their goods over time, and this has happened with several manufacturers previously mentioned in this thread. If you go to a buyers market, you'll see very little activity around their booths, because most of the small shop owners prefer not to carry these brands.
So, if you see a genuine fabric that's the same in WM as in the LQS, it will indeed be the same fabric, although it may be an older, closeout fabric. Same thing with online stores that specialize in closeouts.
But the other side of this is you probably won't find many of the fabrics that WM buys a lot of (names deleted to protect ME) in LQS's. Most savvy LQS shop buyers tend to stay away from these and some others because they (like us) have been burned by these in the past. We see a lot of these fabrics only on paper before they're released, then when we get the final product, they're just junk and we're forced to either close them out or donate them for charity quilts. I know there are several manufacturers products I won't even consider anymore because I can't trust what I'm going to get from them.
The bottom line for the retail buyer is to examine carefully what you're getting, no matter where you buy it. And if you buy something online that is sub-par when you receive it (assuming you didn't get it at a really low closeout price), don't be afraid to send it back and state to the seller why you're sending it back. The higher end online stores are like the high-end quilt shops. They don't want to sell junk.
That's probably why my Walmart had the Grace frames a few years back, only for a couple of months.
And I do see this with other stuff, too. They had the Cuttlebug ( a die cutting machine) in a for a short time, too. But, Walmart.com still carries them though.
You know, its sad , that in a way, Walmart is basically FORCING companies to cheapen their products.
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