Answer to the Walmart "quality of fabric" email
10-24-2010, 12:42 AM
#81
Super Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,116
I have heard a yarn about manufacturers using cheaper cottons to test their designs and dyes before putting the expensive run in. Cannot verify if that is true, ever was etc.- however, the story is that the cheaper cotton and seconds were the ones supplied to our version of Walmart. I notice a difference in quality wherever I go, and rely on my own judgement and purse as to what I buy.
10-24-2010, 05:38 AM
#83
Super Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 1,705
Originally Posted by bearisgray
And the original question still does not have a definitive answer for many mills.
10-24-2010, 07:31 AM
#85
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Washburn, North Dakota
Posts: 257
I have bought from fabric shops at $10/yd and it's frayed away. I've bought Walmart and it's lasted nicely. I feel fabric, look at the salvage or bolt end information.
I was told at a retreat with a factory rep there, that the huge roll of fabric, cuts off into bolts, the end is flat folds (our Ben Franklin store), and it's sold the same everywhere..fabric stores only buy 1-2 bolts so price is higher, Walmart buys thousands of bolts so price is kept down. JoAnns & Hancock don't buy as much as Walmart, but Walmart is also closing fabric dept. We have 12 stores in the state and only 2 have fabric now..prices might go up.
There are a higher quality of fabric you can watch for, where designers require better thread count, better dye, better processing. And other's that are mill basics. Do a hand scrunch test at the store, feel the fabric, nothing you can 'see' through. But before it was mentioned, they don't take time or energy to separate fabric to Walmart or a Quilt shop, it's all off the same huge fabric roll. And I've paid high price too often at fabric shops for crappy fabric..it's not the end all perfect buy, but I do like to support fabric shops..usually more selections, they offer classes, more tools than you can find at Walmart or JoAnns or Hobby Lobby...just point out to your fabric shop owner if you find crappy fabric (discretly), and that you'd appreciate the better grade like Moda, etc. Hancock you can return cut fabric now, I will, if it frays, has flaws. Wish all stores would offer that.
I was told at a retreat with a factory rep there, that the huge roll of fabric, cuts off into bolts, the end is flat folds (our Ben Franklin store), and it's sold the same everywhere..fabric stores only buy 1-2 bolts so price is higher, Walmart buys thousands of bolts so price is kept down. JoAnns & Hancock don't buy as much as Walmart, but Walmart is also closing fabric dept. We have 12 stores in the state and only 2 have fabric now..prices might go up.
There are a higher quality of fabric you can watch for, where designers require better thread count, better dye, better processing. And other's that are mill basics. Do a hand scrunch test at the store, feel the fabric, nothing you can 'see' through. But before it was mentioned, they don't take time or energy to separate fabric to Walmart or a Quilt shop, it's all off the same huge fabric roll. And I've paid high price too often at fabric shops for crappy fabric..it's not the end all perfect buy, but I do like to support fabric shops..usually more selections, they offer classes, more tools than you can find at Walmart or JoAnns or Hobby Lobby...just point out to your fabric shop owner if you find crappy fabric (discretly), and that you'd appreciate the better grade like Moda, etc. Hancock you can return cut fabric now, I will, if it frays, has flaws. Wish all stores would offer that.
10-24-2010, 07:45 AM
#86
Super Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western Nevada
Posts: 2,520
Now that all the drama is over in this thread, I feel like contributing.
First, you need to understand how WM buys fabric, indeed, how it buys everything. Whereas you and I go into a store (or if we're fabric buyers we go into a distributor or manufacturer,) and that dist or manufacturer tells us what the price will be. Unless we're buying a lot, or have really good relationships with the seller, we're going to pay the price they demand. If we as buyers are dumb enough to pay high prices for lower quality goods, and btw all of us have done it a few times, you'll see lower quality goods in your LQS. There is very little variation in first line goods pricing between good stuff and bad stuff to the LQS from the dists/manfct's.
When WM buys stuff, the sellers go to them, WM tells them the price point they'll buy at, and the seller decides if they can sell at that price or how they can change their manufacturing stream to meet that price point. Many sellers will sell at a loss to WM, at first, just to get in the door. This is how you occasionally find higher quality goods at WM, but with continued price pressure on the seller, they usually find a way to manufacture them more cheaply, or have specific lines manufactured at a lower cost (and subsequent lower quality) to meet WM's pricing demands.
This is a critical difference, and is the reason there is so much quality variation in the products you see at WM.
This is also the reason why you see a lot of goods appear in WM only to disappear after a short time. The seller took one shot with them and then decided they were tired of losing money or didn't want to lower their quality to meet WM's pricing demands.
We've also seen instances where WM has sold counterfeit goods, probably unintentionally.
The problem, as a fabric seller, that I have is that the brands that do a lot of business with WM tend to cheapen all their goods over time, and this has happened with several manufacturers previously mentioned in this thread. If you go to a buyers market, you'll see very little activity around their booths, because most of the small shop owners prefer not to carry these brands.
So, if you see a genuine fabric that's the same in WM as in the LQS, it will indeed be the same fabric, although it may be an older, closeout fabric. Same thing with online stores that specialize in closeouts.
But the other side of this is you probably won't find many of the fabrics that WM buys a lot of (names deleted to protect ME) in LQS's. Most savvy LQS shop buyers tend to stay away from these and some others because they (like us) have been burned by these in the past. We see a lot of these fabrics only on paper before they're released, then when we get the final product, they're just junk and we're forced to either close them out or donate them for charity quilts. I know there are several manufacturers products I won't even consider anymore because I can't trust what I'm going to get from them.
The bottom line for the retail buyer is to examine carefully what you're getting, no matter where you buy it. And if you buy something online that is sub-par when you receive it (assuming you didn't get it at a really low closeout price), don't be afraid to send it back and state to the seller why you're sending it back. The higher end online stores are like the high-end quilt shops. They don't want to sell junk.
First, you need to understand how WM buys fabric, indeed, how it buys everything. Whereas you and I go into a store (or if we're fabric buyers we go into a distributor or manufacturer,) and that dist or manufacturer tells us what the price will be. Unless we're buying a lot, or have really good relationships with the seller, we're going to pay the price they demand. If we as buyers are dumb enough to pay high prices for lower quality goods, and btw all of us have done it a few times, you'll see lower quality goods in your LQS. There is very little variation in first line goods pricing between good stuff and bad stuff to the LQS from the dists/manfct's.
When WM buys stuff, the sellers go to them, WM tells them the price point they'll buy at, and the seller decides if they can sell at that price or how they can change their manufacturing stream to meet that price point. Many sellers will sell at a loss to WM, at first, just to get in the door. This is how you occasionally find higher quality goods at WM, but with continued price pressure on the seller, they usually find a way to manufacture them more cheaply, or have specific lines manufactured at a lower cost (and subsequent lower quality) to meet WM's pricing demands.
This is a critical difference, and is the reason there is so much quality variation in the products you see at WM.
This is also the reason why you see a lot of goods appear in WM only to disappear after a short time. The seller took one shot with them and then decided they were tired of losing money or didn't want to lower their quality to meet WM's pricing demands.
We've also seen instances where WM has sold counterfeit goods, probably unintentionally.
The problem, as a fabric seller, that I have is that the brands that do a lot of business with WM tend to cheapen all their goods over time, and this has happened with several manufacturers previously mentioned in this thread. If you go to a buyers market, you'll see very little activity around their booths, because most of the small shop owners prefer not to carry these brands.
So, if you see a genuine fabric that's the same in WM as in the LQS, it will indeed be the same fabric, although it may be an older, closeout fabric. Same thing with online stores that specialize in closeouts.
But the other side of this is you probably won't find many of the fabrics that WM buys a lot of (names deleted to protect ME) in LQS's. Most savvy LQS shop buyers tend to stay away from these and some others because they (like us) have been burned by these in the past. We see a lot of these fabrics only on paper before they're released, then when we get the final product, they're just junk and we're forced to either close them out or donate them for charity quilts. I know there are several manufacturers products I won't even consider anymore because I can't trust what I'm going to get from them.
The bottom line for the retail buyer is to examine carefully what you're getting, no matter where you buy it. And if you buy something online that is sub-par when you receive it (assuming you didn't get it at a really low closeout price), don't be afraid to send it back and state to the seller why you're sending it back. The higher end online stores are like the high-end quilt shops. They don't want to sell junk.
10-24-2010, 08:15 AM
#87
Super Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,356
Okay- I'm a fairly new quilter so please do not laugh when I ask this question.
Why does quilt shop material feel soft and some of the material I bought at walmart feel stiffer? If is the same why would it not all be soft?
Thanks for letting me know about the walmart fabric- my duaghter just bought 5 packages of 5 yards for $5.00 she spend $25.00 and got 25 years.
Why does quilt shop material feel soft and some of the material I bought at walmart feel stiffer? If is the same why would it not all be soft?
Thanks for letting me know about the walmart fabric- my duaghter just bought 5 packages of 5 yards for $5.00 she spend $25.00 and got 25 years.
10-24-2010, 09:05 AM
#88
Super Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western Nevada
Posts: 2,520
There is a lot of variability in the fabrics on the market.
The soft feel you experience is called, in the industry, "the hand."
The higher quality fabrics that use better and more expensive finishing techniques will have a better "hand." Lower quality fabrics will generally feel stiffer, and often the finishing step is skipped to save money, leaving a less desirable hand and making the fabric harder to work with.
Also, the cheaper fabrics often are top-dyed with extra dyes to make them feel thicker and less transparent rather than using more expensive penetrating dyes, and this will make them feel stiffer. Look at the fabric, does it look like the dye is sitting on top, or does it look like it's a natural part of the fabric? The highest quality fabrics will look more natural, and will be silky soft.
The finishing is applied after the fabric is printed. 1st strikeoffs, often used as earliest manufacturers samples, and sometimes sold in lower-priced venues are often not finished.
The soft feel you experience is called, in the industry, "the hand."
The higher quality fabrics that use better and more expensive finishing techniques will have a better "hand." Lower quality fabrics will generally feel stiffer, and often the finishing step is skipped to save money, leaving a less desirable hand and making the fabric harder to work with.
Also, the cheaper fabrics often are top-dyed with extra dyes to make them feel thicker and less transparent rather than using more expensive penetrating dyes, and this will make them feel stiffer. Look at the fabric, does it look like the dye is sitting on top, or does it look like it's a natural part of the fabric? The highest quality fabrics will look more natural, and will be silky soft.
The finishing is applied after the fabric is printed. 1st strikeoffs, often used as earliest manufacturers samples, and sometimes sold in lower-priced venues are often not finished.
10-24-2010, 09:14 AM
#89
Super Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,183
Originally Posted by QKO
Now that all the drama is over in this thread, I feel like contributing.
First, you need to understand how WM buys fabric, indeed, how it buys everything. Whereas you and I go into a store (or if we're fabric buyers we go into a distributor or manufacturer,) and that dist or manufacturer tells us what the price will be. Unless we're buying a lot, or have really good relationships with the seller, we're going to pay the price they demand. If we as buyers are dumb enough to pay high prices for lower quality goods, and btw all of us have done it a few times, you'll see lower quality goods in your LQS. There is very little variation in first line goods pricing between good stuff and bad stuff to the LQS from the dists/manfct's.
When WM buys stuff, the sellers go to them, WM tells them the price point they'll buy at, and the seller decides if they can sell at that price or how they can change their manufacturing stream to meet that price point. Many sellers will sell at a loss to WM, at first, just to get in the door. This is how you occasionally find higher quality goods at WM, but with continued price pressure on the seller, they usually find a way to manufacture them more cheaply, or have specific lines manufactured at a lower cost (and subsequent lower quality) to meet WM's pricing demands.
This is a critical difference, and is the reason there is so much quality variation in the products you see at WM.
This is also the reason why you see a lot of goods appear in WM only to disappear after a short time. The seller took one shot with them and then decided they were tired of losing money or didn't want to lower their quality to meet WM's pricing demands.
We've also seen instances where WM has sold counterfeit goods, probably unintentionally.
The problem, as a fabric seller, that I have is that the brands that do a lot of business with WM tend to cheapen all their goods over time, and this has happened with several manufacturers previously mentioned in this thread. If you go to a buyers market, you'll see very little activity around their booths, because most of the small shop owners prefer not to carry these brands.
So, if you see a genuine fabric that's the same in WM as in the LQS, it will indeed be the same fabric, although it may be an older, closeout fabric. Same thing with online stores that specialize in closeouts.
But the other side of this is you probably won't find many of the fabrics that WM buys a lot of (names deleted to protect ME) in LQS's. Most savvy LQS shop buyers tend to stay away from these and some others because they (like us) have been burned by these in the past. We see a lot of these fabrics only on paper before they're released, then when we get the final product, they're just junk and we're forced to either close them out or donate them for charity quilts. I know there are several manufacturers products I won't even consider anymore because I can't trust what I'm going to get from them.
The bottom line for the retail buyer is to examine carefully what you're getting, no matter where you buy it. And if you buy something online that is sub-par when you receive it (assuming you didn't get it at a really low closeout price), don't be afraid to send it back and state to the seller why you're sending it back. The higher end online stores are like the high-end quilt shops. They don't want to sell junk.
First, you need to understand how WM buys fabric, indeed, how it buys everything. Whereas you and I go into a store (or if we're fabric buyers we go into a distributor or manufacturer,) and that dist or manufacturer tells us what the price will be. Unless we're buying a lot, or have really good relationships with the seller, we're going to pay the price they demand. If we as buyers are dumb enough to pay high prices for lower quality goods, and btw all of us have done it a few times, you'll see lower quality goods in your LQS. There is very little variation in first line goods pricing between good stuff and bad stuff to the LQS from the dists/manfct's.
When WM buys stuff, the sellers go to them, WM tells them the price point they'll buy at, and the seller decides if they can sell at that price or how they can change their manufacturing stream to meet that price point. Many sellers will sell at a loss to WM, at first, just to get in the door. This is how you occasionally find higher quality goods at WM, but with continued price pressure on the seller, they usually find a way to manufacture them more cheaply, or have specific lines manufactured at a lower cost (and subsequent lower quality) to meet WM's pricing demands.
This is a critical difference, and is the reason there is so much quality variation in the products you see at WM.
This is also the reason why you see a lot of goods appear in WM only to disappear after a short time. The seller took one shot with them and then decided they were tired of losing money or didn't want to lower their quality to meet WM's pricing demands.
We've also seen instances where WM has sold counterfeit goods, probably unintentionally.
The problem, as a fabric seller, that I have is that the brands that do a lot of business with WM tend to cheapen all their goods over time, and this has happened with several manufacturers previously mentioned in this thread. If you go to a buyers market, you'll see very little activity around their booths, because most of the small shop owners prefer not to carry these brands.
So, if you see a genuine fabric that's the same in WM as in the LQS, it will indeed be the same fabric, although it may be an older, closeout fabric. Same thing with online stores that specialize in closeouts.
But the other side of this is you probably won't find many of the fabrics that WM buys a lot of (names deleted to protect ME) in LQS's. Most savvy LQS shop buyers tend to stay away from these and some others because they (like us) have been burned by these in the past. We see a lot of these fabrics only on paper before they're released, then when we get the final product, they're just junk and we're forced to either close them out or donate them for charity quilts. I know there are several manufacturers products I won't even consider anymore because I can't trust what I'm going to get from them.
The bottom line for the retail buyer is to examine carefully what you're getting, no matter where you buy it. And if you buy something online that is sub-par when you receive it (assuming you didn't get it at a really low closeout price), don't be afraid to send it back and state to the seller why you're sending it back. The higher end online stores are like the high-end quilt shops. They don't want to sell junk.
One thing I've been wondering about is thread. Is it me or does it seem like thread isn't as strong as it used to be 30 years ago? I've had more trouble with my thread shredding while on my sewing machine. Anyone else have this problem? Maybe a discussion for another thread (pardon the pun! :D )
10-24-2010, 09:17 AM
#90
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Washburn, North Dakota
Posts: 257
This has been a good discussion, lots learned here, I know I appreciate learning. I've had a national teacher showing her absolutely stunning quilts, and pointing out fabrics from Walmart or JoAnns and then the rest is quilt shops.
She blended because she buys what she "feels", or likes.
Some swear by hand dyed. I've spent as high as $28/yd in Portland OR, for something I'd never seen in ND before, stunning & different..that was highly unusual. I've spent $24 for FQ of hand dyed silk, also unusual, but it would go perfect with a project I wanted to do. And I buy at Walmart & chain fabric stores as well as my local quilt shops. I do prefer the smaller fabric shops, in Oregon, we went to one for 3 hrs and didn't cover 1/6th of this huge place of fabrics.
BTW, does anyone know why Daisy Kingdom went out of business? I've seen panels sold on ebay for $15-$18 ea, that I remember buying for $2 & $5 ea. When I went to Portland (went to OR for Sisters OR out door quilt show), I looked forward to the Daisy Kingdom outlet, had bought a few years ago at quarter & 50 cent panels/yd, and didn't realize it was gone. Disappointed, I liked their items for little girls especially.. have new grandchildren is why I was interested again.
She blended because she buys what she "feels", or likes.
Some swear by hand dyed. I've spent as high as $28/yd in Portland OR, for something I'd never seen in ND before, stunning & different..that was highly unusual. I've spent $24 for FQ of hand dyed silk, also unusual, but it would go perfect with a project I wanted to do. And I buy at Walmart & chain fabric stores as well as my local quilt shops. I do prefer the smaller fabric shops, in Oregon, we went to one for 3 hrs and didn't cover 1/6th of this huge place of fabrics.
BTW, does anyone know why Daisy Kingdom went out of business? I've seen panels sold on ebay for $15-$18 ea, that I remember buying for $2 & $5 ea. When I went to Portland (went to OR for Sisters OR out door quilt show), I looked forward to the Daisy Kingdom outlet, had bought a few years ago at quarter & 50 cent panels/yd, and didn't realize it was gone. Disappointed, I liked their items for little girls especially.. have new grandchildren is why I was interested again.
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