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Thread: Copyright aggrevation.

  1. #26
    Power Poster dunster's Avatar
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    Actually she does not have this right. If she sells the pattern, she gives consent for items to be made from it. This is one resource: http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/...Patterns.shtml

    Quote Originally Posted by ghostrider
    Quote Originally Posted by dunster
    In this case I wouldn't buy her pattern at all, because she is acting dishonestly by claiming that you need her permission to sell items you make with it.
    Please provide a resource for this fact as you state it. The artist/designer/writer of the pattern has every right to limit the commercial production of her work if she chooses to do so. She is not acting the least bit dishonestly, as you put it. I would like to see your source of information.

  2. #27
    Power Poster dunster's Avatar
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    I should back up a moment and state that I think we are all talking about commercially available patterns. As already pointed out, licensing is a different matter. In that case someone agrees to a contract with you whereby they will allow you to make copies of their original design in exchange for a fee but the design/pattern is not commercially available. In that case, the creator of the design/pattern can state what rights they want to retain, and what fees they will charge, and you have the option of entering into the agreement or not.

  3. #28
    AbbyQuilts's Avatar
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    Although simplicity has on their envelop that it is for personal use only. The only thing they have copyrighted is the envelope

    Here is one of only 300 copyrights simplicity holds
    and most are books
    If patterns were easier to copyright dont you think they would have one for every dress they make?

    Type of Work: Visual Material
    Registration Number / Date: VA0001209743 / 2003-06-19
    Application Title: New Look pattern no. 6021 envelope.
    Title: New Look : no. 6021.
    Description: Product packaging.
    Copyright Claimant: Simplicity Pattern Company, Inc.
    Date of Creation: 2000
    Date of Publication: 2000-01-01
    Variant title: New Look : no. 6021.
    Other Title: New Look pattern no. 6021 envelope.
    Names: Simplicity Pattern Company, Inc.

  4. #29
    Super Member knlsmith's Avatar
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    WOW! I am glad I had to vent! I had done searches here and other places with no real answers on the subject. seems we might be getting closer here.

    I feel a lot the same as CHELE, I wanted to avoid any possible conflict with the designer.

    My biggest problem is I was seeing an item for sale other places (NOT here) and no one gave credit to the designer.

    I love all this feedback and conversation though. this is the best copyright post I think i've seen here. If you know of a better one, please share.
    Thank you

  5. #30
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    [quote=ghostrider]
    Quote Originally Posted by dunster
    \The artist/designer/writer of the pattern has every right to limit the commercial production of her work if she chooses to do so.
    But what is the designers work? The production of the pattern. You aren't copying and selling her pattern.
    You have bought the pattern and paid her price. Why should she get credit for YOUR work?

    Carol B

  6. #31
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    I might be overthinking this but this is what my little pea brain does this time of morning.

    1 - you buy a book with a pattern in it or buy a pattern, and you can't make something with it and sell it? The author of the book or pattern has gotten paid their asking price for this pattern.

    Does that mean that a restaurant can buy food ingredients but can't make anything with these ingredients and sell them without asking permission?

    No, that is silly! The food companies got what they asked for the product, and the restaurant can do anything with it they want to.

    Does this also mean that a baker can buy a cookbook but can't make a cake from a recipe out of the book to sell without getting permission from the cookbook people?

    Can a seamstress buy fabric then make an article to sell from this fabric, or does she have to produce her own fabric before she can sell for a profit?

    I'm going to shut up now and go back to bed.....even though I could go on and on and on.

    Carol B

  7. #32
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    Sept/Oct 2010 issue McCall's Quilting (latest issue I just got it yesterday) has a wonderful article on copyright issues....patterns, magazines, online

  8. #33
    Super Member knlsmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtrott522
    Sept/Oct 2010 issue McCall's Quilting (latest issue I just got it yesterday) has a wonderful article on copyright issues....patterns, magazines, online
    Thank you, I will have to see if i can get to town and buy it.

  9. #34
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    Is it legal to sell a quilt made with copyrighted material, such as Disney princess material or a Disney embroidered designs?

  10. #35
    Super Member applique's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scissor Queen
    Quote Originally Posted by knlsmith
    I don't know about patterns like that from magazines. All I know for sure is that each pattern has a copyright of some type, Ususally printed on the back or on their website, and the ones that i use you need permission to sell items made from the pattern.

    I see other people selling places without paying for the right to do so like I did.
    You actually don't need permission to sell things made from any pattern. No matter what the designers think or try to tell you.
    There ARE quilt police in the form of Copyright lawyers!!! I make quilts to sell in a museum and I HAVE to show permission from the designer before they can be sold. Only originals or public domain are excluded. There are books that deal with this issue.

  11. #36
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    i believe you need to look at the pattern and decide what is really under the copyright. Traditional patterns can't be copyrighted. Squares can't etc. Public Domain patterns cant.
    The copyright might cover the instructions. What is it about the "design" that is unique. Is it just the specific colors the "designer" used. Sylvia Landman has some very tood info on her web site about quilts and copyright.

  12. #37
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    that should have been "good information"

  13. #38
    Super Member applique's Avatar
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    Read the copyright law. It's posted on the web!

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scissor Queen
    Quote Originally Posted by pam1966
    Quote Originally Posted by Scissor Queen
    Quote Originally Posted by knlsmith
    I don't know about patterns like that from magazines. All I know for sure is that each pattern has a copyright of some type, Ususally printed on the back or on their website, and the ones that i use you need permission to sell items made from the pattern.

    I see other people selling places without paying for the right to do so like I did.
    You actually don't need permission to sell things made from any pattern. No matter what the designers think or try to tell you.
    What about when it says on the pattern itself that you can't? I'm really curious about this.
    It doesn't matter what it says on the pattern. They do not have the right to say what you can or can't do with items you have made.

    This link has a lot of links to actual court cases and court rulings. http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/trademarks.shtml
    Excellent post and good responses. I want to give it more time later when I don't have houseguest on their way. Thank you for this link. I will enjoy it when I can spend some time with it. This topic is one I want to understand and it seems there are many translations.

  15. #40
    AbbyQuilts's Avatar
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    The problem you run into with copyrighting quilt patterns is that it can fall into a useful item category and those can not be copyrighted.
    That was already proven years ago when a dress pattern was copyrighted and then taken to court. You can not copyright a dress pattern.

    Now as far as quilts well I guess that would be up to the judge at this present time.
    As far as I know no one has successfully sued based on copyrighting pattens, nor selling items resulting from the items.
    Check up court cases it is just not there that I can find.
    Normally if there has been a court case involving a major pattern maker you should be able to find it in case law.


    I wanted to add... I am not a lawyer I do research and look up things for fun.
    Also I respect the copyright notice on a pattern. I would never copy a pattern and sell it. Once a pattern is bought and I made the item I would sell it if that was my intention but I do not sell items.

  16. #41
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    Everything everybody says is correct. It is a very "sticky" issue. The one for me that comes to mind is the "Norwegian Chicken Pattern" that Doreen Speckman "copyrighted" or so it says on the pattern that I have. There are so many patterns and kinds of those out there that it really does make you wonder. I think if you're really going to mass produce you need to find out for sure what you need to do but I'm pretty sure the IRS isn't going to worry about a little quilter/sewer doing "nickle and dime" stuff. And, if you think people are abusing the copyright law...report them...that's the only way people will learn.......Now I'll get off my soap box!

  17. #42
    Super Member chamby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunster
    Chele, your heart is definitely in the right place, but perhaps we're talking about different things. There is a huge difference between making (and selling) items from a legally obtained pattern and copying someone's original work without permission.

    The legitimate use of a pattern is not a matter of ethics or manners. It is a matter of copyright law, which the pattern maker should understand before selling her pattern. If she wants to have more control than the law provides, she should not sell the pattern.

    It's not as if you are ripping off the pattern maker. You are paying the asking price for the pattern, and with that goes the right to make items from the pattern. You own whatever you make, and so you have the right to sell it if you choose. I say this from the standpoint of someone who is currently selling a quilt pattern. I hope that everyone who buys my pattern will make many, many quilts from it, and if they want to sell, display, give away, donate, or even burn those quilts, they have the absolute right to do so. I am being compensated for my time and expenses by the payment I receive from the pattern, and that is all I am entitled to. If someone wants to give me credit for having written the pattern, I will be thrilled to receive it, but I will look on that as a nice gesture, not as something the quilter was required by law or ethics to provide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chele
    What if I figure out Apple's "pattern" for the IPhone? Do you think I could sell it? Or is that that license/law thing? Doesn't it really boil down to ethics or manners? If you didn't create it, you should really ask permission to profit from it.

    As an aside, I bet all of you talented quilters could come up with your own wonderful patterns. And I'm sure you'd be more than willing to share with the rest of the world. That's what I love about quilters. Huge hearts and sharing personalities. And if your fellow quilter made billions off your pattern without ever asking if it was okay, you'd send a congratulations bouquet, right? Laws or not, what's the right thing to do?
    Thank you so much for the above statement. I agree. I am not physically claiming the credits for the pattern. I am just selling the finished product. It was my money that purchased the fabric, thread and what ever else was in the product. My labor is also included in the price. If someone ask that I make a purse or quilt for them I charge for the material and time that I have in the project not for the price of the pattern. If I charged for the price of the pattern then I would need to hand over the original pattern. Besides that I always add my own personal touch to the product. I do not always make the pattern exactly as written.

  18. #43
    Senior Member Lori L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctack2
    I might be overthinking this but this is what my little pea brain does this time of morning.


    Does that mean that a restaurant can buy food ingredients but can't make anything with these ingredients and sell them without asking permission?
    Does this also mean that a baker can buy a cookbook but can't make a cake from a recipe out of the book to sell without getting permission from the cookbook people?


    I'm going to shut up now and go back to bed.....even though I could go on and on and on.

    Carol B
    I agree......there's a lot of bake sales going on across the country that had better start listing where the recipe came from and giving credit to the author. LOL We are definately over thinking this. Go with your conscience.....it works for me everytime. Can I lay my head down on my pillow at nighttime and know I've done right throughout the day?

  19. #44
    Super Member MaggieLou's Avatar
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    Generally if you buy a pattern or book of patterns it usually has somewhere on it that the pattern cannot be sold or copied except for personal use. Anything you make from the pattern is yours to do with as you please. The pattern maker makes money from the sale of the pattern not from what you make using their pattern. That's why they put on it not to copy, except for personal use, or sell their pattern for profit.

  20. #45
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    This is all so confusing to me. The more responses I read, the more confused I am. This is my take-away:

    The copyright belongs to the pattern, not the item that comes from the pattern. However, one cannot mass produce from a copyrighted pattern for personal profit, meaning, you can't take someone else's copyrighted pattern, open a factory, and produce zillions of quilts for sale from that one pattern. However, a quilter can make a quilt from a copyrighted pattern and sell it to another individual at a fair or something like that. Do I have it about right?

    Now here's where I'm confused. I am making art quilts for the Alzheimer's Art Quilt Initiative, and if I use a pattern from a designer, I have to get permission before I submit my quilt to AAQI. (Incidentally, I have found designers to be very gracious about giving their permission and seem delighted that I like their pattern enough to want to do this.) From what you all have written, this permission isn't really necessary. Rather, it's something the AAQI requires to cover their own behinds. And do I have that about right?

  21. #46
    Senior Member pam1966's Avatar
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    I think the comparison to making a cake from a recipe is a great example, and one that finally put the light bulb moment above my head. :D

  22. #47
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    A couple of years ago I had the opportunity to meet Carol Doak at a workshop. I had taken in one of my first quilts that was made entirely from her stars. I had given her credit on my label for the pattern designs and gave credit to myself for the quilt design, piecing and quilting. It was really a nice moment to see her smile and to receive her autograph and a very encouraging comment on my label. Whether this was necessary or not did not matter, it really felt like the right thing to do. I feel it also adds further documentation to the label.

  23. #48

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    I think the whole copyright issue has been taken way beyond what it was meant for. If someone uses it to mass produce an item, of course that would not be right. However an example of just plain selfishness is when I called Debbie Field (Granola Girl) and asked if I could sell 1 item made from a pattern in her book. She was as rude as could be and said "absolutely not!" Guess what, I will not be buying any of her books or patterns and neither will my friends.

  24. #49

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    There is a good article in the Sep/Oct McCall's Quilting mag about copyrights. I sell some of my patterns to quilt stores.....some in Canada......one of the stores wrote me about seeing a lady......copying one of my patterns and teaching it....when asked she said the designer wasn't selling anymore.........I think if you use a design while making a quilt, one should really give the Original designer credit......even if you just say that it was adapted from the pattern.......When you consider the work that goes into developing a new design and then working out the measurements, etc...and the printing, etc...I think it only a nice consideration to give that person credit.

  25. #50
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    Someone several years ago had posted to a machine embroidery group about this type of issue.
    A lawyer( husband of amember) responded that to make a case of copyright infringement a designer would have to prove a loss because of your actions.

    So they would need to lose money because you were competing with them in the marketplace with their item.
    the example of Disney was used.
    Disney has stores and sell items embroidered with Disney cartoons on them mickey mouse,pluto etc.
    If you made and sold embroidered hats with the same cartoons you would be taking away from their income so copyright infringement but if you only made for yourself and you purchased the designs from them- no infringement.

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