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Thread: Copyright aggrevation.

  1. #76
    Power Poster Sadiemae's Avatar
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    Afford one. That is a joke! Not on my fixed income.

  2. #77
    Super Member Pat G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madelinkk
    Is this right?
    I bought a pattern on ebay. When I received it, the pattern had been pulled out of a quilting magazine. It just doesn't seem to be the right thing to do.
    I had the same thing happen. I pd. for a pattern that was just a pg. from a magazine. It aggravated me but didn't feel it was worth making a fuss at that time.

  3. #78
    Super Member quilterguy27's Avatar
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    I've read this entire post and most of the links and as confusing as it all sounds it's a wonder anybody could sell a quilt in today's market. It seems to me that there are only so many ways to make a block. You put that block together in a quilt and decide to sell it never knowing it was copywrited to start with and the next thing you know you are in trouble with the law. So it seems nobody can make and sell a quilt anymore. Sue Garman designs some beautiful quilts. I am following one of her BOMs on TheQuiltShow.com and I love last years BOM> I've also seen this very same quilt pattern made and photographed and sold by other designers as their original. Sounds to me like someone in this situation is infringing, but who did it first and who did the infringing? Way too scary. My brother wants me to make him a quilt and he wants to buy it. Although I know I could get away with it, would it be right? Would I be breaking the law? Maybe we should all just make quilts and donate them. No laws broken, problem solved.

  4. #79
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    It is my understanding that once you buy the pattern, it is yours to do with what you want. you bought that right, the designer is not losing any money, because most people who buy quilts do not quilt them selves. the designer is sailing the pattern, not the right to tell you what to do with the pattern. Unless that pattern is licened. On the other hand you can not open a factory with that design, a few quilts at fairs is not mass production. God bless. Penny

  5. #80
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    I contacted eQuiltPatterns with the specific question about selling a quilt with a pattern I had just purchased. This was her reply:

    Thank you so much for taking the time to write us. Copyright law can be confusing, so we are very happy to that contacted us as each company handles this issue differently. We allow you to sell one (1) quilt made from each of our patterns. Sales of more than one quilt requires that you purchase a copy of the pattern for each quilt that you make and sell. So, if you want to make 3 quilts to sell, you would purchase a total of 3 copies of the pattern (this is in essence a royalty fee). We would very much appreciate it if you would include the designers names and source of the pattern on the quilt label as well. If you purchase 1 pattern per quilt you sell, then you would not need any additional written permission. Sales of more than one quilt per purchased pattern would require additional written permission as we would need to draw up a liscensing agreement detailing the terms. Please let me know if you need any additional info.

    Kind Regards,

    Liz Schwartz

    This particular pattern is so complicated that selling it would never be an issue, but I certainly will take her answer into consideration if I do decide to sell one.

  6. #81
    JJs
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    so, in essence these 'designers' are saying that they OWN your quilt - that you pay them for the privilege of making the quilt, paying for the fabric AND the pattern...
    as I said, bah humbug - I have EQ and a gazillion quilts to make and nary a single 'designer' to ask permission for any of them...

    As my DH just said, it's like buying a car, entering a race, winning the race and a huge purse and the the car manufacturer trying to claim some of your winnings because they designed the car....

    GREED PURE AND SIMPLE

    read my post here:
    http://www.quiltingboard.com/t-56143-1.htm

    and then save up for one of the versions of EQ and design your own quilts

  7. #82
    Super Member C.Cal Quilt Girl's Avatar
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    Thanks for bringing it up, aggrivation is definately the correct topic name for this thread, will continue to monitor :)

  8. #83
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    I absolutely agree about saving up for EQ. I took a class in EQ6, and just playing around doing the class work and experimenting with abandon, I created quilt designs far more interesting that what is generally published. I'm looking forward to exploring my new Eq7. :-)

  9. #84
    Super Member pittsburgpam's Avatar
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    Do read the link to the Tabberone site. I have read this at many other sites. The pattern designer DOES NOT have the right to tell you that you cannot make and sell items made from their pattern!! It's all lies that they state to try and intimidate people who don't know this.

    Especially interesting to read the section about Amy Butler. Her fabric is copywrite, meaning you cannot make FABRIC like it but, once you buy that fabric you can do anything you want with it INCLUDING sell it. You can make Amy Butler handbags, with Amy Butler fabric, and sell them, contrary to what she tries to tell people.

    http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/...myButler.shtml

  10. #85
    Super Member pittsburgpam's Avatar
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    As an aside... When I was entering a quilt that I designed using standard blocks into an AQS show, I checked on the use of those blocks from EQ6. According to the EQ6 website:

    http://www.appliquegraphics.com/Supp.../copyright.asp

    EQ4, EQ5, EQ6 software
    Blocks: Any blocks you design (without copying a design from existing copyrighted quilt blocks) are yours.
    Blocks from the EQ Libraries are copyright free for the most part (because we either drew them or they've been in public domain since the turn of the century and no one can claim copyright to them) except for the blocks designed by Debbie Sichel and Rita Denenberg. Debbie and Rita's blocks are clearly marked by the Block Name. You do not need to mention that the pattern was made in EQ6, EQ5, or EQ4 (we love it if you do, of course).
    Quilts: Any quilts you design (without copying an existing copyrighted quilt design) are yours.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghostrider
    Quote Originally Posted by madelinkk
    Is this right?
    I bought a pattern on ebay. When I received it, the pattern had been pulled out of a quilting magazine. It just doesn't seem to be the right thing to do.
    If it was ripped out of the magazine, it's fine. If it was a photocopy of the magazine pages, it's not. Once someone purchases a pattern, either in a magazine or as a pattern, they can sell it or give it away as they choose. They cannot sell or give away copies, nor can they give away the original and keep a copy for themselves, without being in violation of copyright laws. Only the original document can exist without the express permission of the copyright holder (like copies for a class need permission). Hope that makes sense.
    This is my understanding also. You can sell the product but not the pattern or copy it for a class unless have permision.

  12. #87
    Power Poster Sadiemae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat G
    Quote Originally Posted by madelinkk
    Is this right?
    I bought a pattern on ebay. When I received it, the pattern had been pulled out of a quilting magazine. It just doesn't seem to be the right thing to do.
    I had the same thing happen. I pd. for a pattern that was just a pg. from a magazine. It aggravated me but didn't feel it was worth making a fuss at that time.
    I had this happen also, and I won't be purchasing from this seller again. It was not stated that it came from a magazine and I think it should have been.

  13. #88
    Super Member pittsburgpam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJs
    As my DH just said, it's like buying a car, entering a race, winning the race and a huge purse and the the car manufacturer trying to claim some of your winnings because they designed the car....

    GREED PURE AND SIMPLE
    I said much the same thing on another thread about this. An example is a maker of cabinet hardware, knobs, etc. That would be like the knob maker claiming that you cannot make and sell furniture using their knobs or claiming a portion of the profits from selling said furniture. It's totally ridiculous for a designer to claim that you can't make and sell things from their patterns!!!

  14. #89
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    JJ quote < Another thing that blows me away is when some 'designer' copies a design from somebody else or uses an OLD public domain design and does something then claims the design - that's disgusting and they should be zapped by lightning LOL>>

    I was thinking the same thing - there are so many 'sampler' type books and patterns out right now that have taken quilting blocks that are in the public domain and that have been around for a very long time. Granted the author/designer has collected these 'historic' patterns and published them but now they are 'copyrighted' as their patterns and we can not legally share these whether it's making copies of the blocks, sharing block templates or piecing foundations of the blocks. There are some samplers being worked on right now on this board where these cautions have been given.

    I don't think it is fair to lay claim to these blocks that have been in the public domain and that do not have any 'copyright' attached to them. I understand and appreciate that these 'designers' have researched and collected these lovely blocks and that they should be acknowledged by buying their books but when there are further restrictions and laying 'claim' to these blocks it bothers me that they can do this. These are not their 'original' designs.

    Can these authors/designers copyright historic blocks that are in the public domain and restrict use?

  15. #90
    Super Member pittsburgpam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by costumegirl
    Can these authors/designers copyright historic blocks that are in the public domain and restrict use?
    No, they cannot. See my previous post about EQ6. If that block is in EQ6, which really has just about any block you could imagine, then it is either public domain or they (EQ6) drew it, and it is NOT copywrite.

  16. #91
    Super Member pittsburgpam's Avatar
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    Something else that bothers me... In an AQS show you are required to get "permission" from the designer to exhibit or enter your quilt if you used a purchased pattern!!!

    AQS is perpetuating the lie that the designer basically "owns" anything you make with their pattern and that they have a say in what YOU do with it.

    You can pay an additional amount and have your quilt appraised in shows. Hmmm... if designers say that you can't sell them, then aren't they worth ZERO in absolute monetary terms other than the cost of materials?

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by pittsburgpam
    Quote Originally Posted by costumegirl
    Can these authors/designers copyright historic blocks that are in the public domain and restrict use?
    No, they cannot. See my previous post about EQ6. If that block is in EQ6, which really has just about any block you could imagine, then it is either public domain or they (EQ6) drew it, and it is NOT copywrite.
    I totally agree. They cannot claim copyright to a design in the public domain, and I don't care whether they put the blocks together into "their" design.

  18. #93
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    See...this is what makes me crazy!! So many interpretations...
    I think if we consider the intent of copyrights, we would agree that mass producing or misrepresenting the design is really the base problem. To rename "quilt in a day" as "the 24hr quilt", using the same method and selling books...that is infringement. Making a few quilts from a pattern that you bought, using different fabrics etc and making a few bucks off them...that is just creative to my way of thinking.

    I mean, why would designers publicize a pattern if they did not want it to be reproduced? What did they think would happen? When you have a good idea and sell it to someone else, do they really think it stops there? I could see if they made a quilt and 'showed' the quilt because they were proud of the design...and of course, I can understand that one-of-a-kind quilts should not be copied from a photo - that is just not fair , but hey - we all get our inspiration from somewhere whether it be another's work, or design on a tile, or nature...I am forever looking at quilt styles and color combos on this site and thinking that I want to make something like that...do I really need to get permission!!?!!
    If a designer wants to copy-protect their designs, then they shouldn't sell the pattern or publish it. I always thought that they are selling their design to make $$ and the only way to do that is to allow others to use it. So if you are making a profit selling your pattern there is expectation that others will be making their profit off the use of the pattern. Considering the options with new quilting design software, soon noone will be buying patterns anymore from the big designers if they are too limiting.
    I have been going to craft fairs for many years and not once have I seen 'permission granted' on any of the tables...

    I am all for giving credit as due, but this seems to be getting way too complicated.
    Next thing you know, we will have to pay a fee to see each others quilts on this site.

  19. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by katmom54
    See...this is what makes me crazy!! So many interpretations...
    I think if we consider the intent of copyrights, we would agree that mass producing or misrepresenting the design is really the base problem. To rename "quilt in a day" as "the 24hr quilt", using the same method and selling books...that is infringement. Making a few quilts from a pattern that you bought, using different fabrics etc and making a few bucks off them...that is just creative to my way of thinking.

    I mean, why would designers publicize a pattern if they did not want it to be reproduced? What did they think would happen? When you have a good idea and sell it to someone else, do they really think it stops there? I could see if they made a quilt and 'showed' the quilt because they were proud of the design...and of course, I can understand that one-of-a-kind quilts should not be copied from a photo - that is just not fair , but hey - we all get our inspiration from somewhere whether it be another's work, or design on a tile, or nature...I am forever looking at quilt styles and color combos on this site and thinking that I want to make something like that...do I really need to get permission!!?!!
    If a designer wants to copy-protect their designs, then they shouldn't sell the pattern or publish it. I always thought that they are selling their design to make $$ and the only way to do that is to allow others to use it. So if you are making a profit selling your pattern there is expectation that others will be making their profit off the use of the pattern. Considering the options with new quilting design software, soon noone will be buying patterns anymore from the big designers if they are too limiting.
    I have been going to craft fairs for many years and not once have I seen 'permission granted' on any of the tables...

    I am all for giving credit as due, but this seems to be getting way too complicated.
    Next thing you know, we will have to pay a fee to see each others quilts on this site.
    I don't care if someone makes a quilt from one of my designs, I'm thrilled.......it's only if someone copies it and then tries to sell it...or teaches it...that's a no-no.........also if someone uses one of my designs, but doesn't see fit to give me a little credit, well, that makes me sad..........

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    What annoys me about some of the bag patterns I have seen is the fact that, in several cases, I have identical bags in leather or canvas that I have owned for many years.

    Did the designer get inspiration from the leather or canvas original? If so, he/she is certainly not giving any credit for said inspiration. If I make a fabric version of such a bag, how does one distinguish between a copy of my own bag and one made from the quilt pattern?

    I have no problems with someone copyrighting specific instructions and making money off their patterns that way. However, in most cases, there is nothing particularly original about the actual shape and overall design, so restrictions on the sales of items made from such patterns just seem ridiculous.

  21. #96
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    If simeone writes a song, you can't sing it for money without permisson Also If you buy plans from and architect, you can only use them on one house without paying him again. So IO could understnd why you could not sell a copyright pattern and sell it.

  22. #97
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    If simeone writes a song, you can't sing it for money without permisson Also If you buy plans from and architect, you can only use them on one house without paying him again. So IO could understnd why you could not sell a copyright pattern and sell it.

  23. #98
    Junior Member katmom54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by galvestonangel
    If simeone writes a song, you can't sing it for money without permisson Also If you buy plans from and architect, you can only use them on one house without paying him again. So IO could understnd why you could not sell a copyright pattern and sell it.
    Actually, local bands do it all the time...Are they truly expecting that college kids pay for those rights. or have to get permission from the Rolling Stones? NO....but if they want the real music, they have to purchase the sheet music ...I was Pres of a youth orchestra...we had to buy sheet music for each child - no photocopying and sharing. But once we bought the music, we could play it however, wherever, and charge whatever we wanted. And we did not have to pay each time we played. And we could use the music year after year once we bought it.
    I still think it all relates to intent.

    I wonder...do all those Idol performers get the songwriter's permission?

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by katmom54
    Quote Originally Posted by galvestonangel
    If simeone writes a song, you can't sing it for money without permisson Also If you buy plans from and architect, you can only use them on one house without paying him again. So IO could understnd why you could not sell a copyright pattern and sell it.
    Actually, local bands do it all the time...Are they truly expecting that college kids pay for those rights. or have to get permission from the Rolling Stones? NO....but if they want the real music, they have to purchase the sheet music ...I was Pres of a youth orchestra...we had to buy sheet music for each child - no photocopying and sharing. But once we bought the music, we could play it however, wherever, and charge whatever we wanted. And we did not have to pay each time we played. And we could use the music year after year once we bought it.
    I still think it all relates to intent.

    I wonder...do all those Idol performers get the songwriter's permission?
    In the case of Idol, yes, they do. There have been numerous instances over the years of competitors not being able to sing their first, or even second, choice songs because the songwriters would not give permission.

  25. #100
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    Wow, this has been an interesting thread, so many variations. Makes me happy that I only quilt for fun and not profit.

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