johnm

Also being one who speaks of personal observation and experience, I can tell you that I have two samples of 3 in 1 oil under observation, one from around 1964 when under the Boyle Midway brand, and one recently purchased, under the ownership of WD40. These were the first two oils to cloud up white and jell up, in about 6 weeks. The ATF is completely fluid, no change in viscosity, the red color has faded to amber. The Marvel Mystery Oil is also now amber, the solvents have evaporated and the viscosity is about like 90 weight gear oil. As I tip the container I see areas of coagulation. I am not going to tell anyone what oil to use, but I will report personal observations, and not repeat gossip. If you must have the smell of Mystery oil, simply add a few drops of wintergreen to your favorite oil. ATF is probably way overboard for the lube needs of a sm. It is also the transfer case lube for many 4 wheel drive vehicles. Although thin, the EP (extreme pressure) additives protect the gears and bearings through more heat and pressure than a sm will ever see.
John in WI

ArchaicArcane

You're kidding!?!?

You know, sometimes I wish I was more mechanically "enclined"... but those sewing machines are terribly intimidating. I have enough trouble just figuring out the dials on the outside of the machine... and the levers. What's with the levers AND the dials? Why couldn't they just go with one thing. It would be less aesthetically displeasing....

I think I was one of the ones who gave him a bit of a tongue lashing. Based on what Steve's told us, I don't feel bad about it now. Seriously. That guy did NOT know his audience!

johnm

Great, another experiment for me to get underway. Yes, I know that ANY petroleum product will eat blacktop. So now, I will douse fabric samples with various ATF fluids and wash them after a while. Would you please provide me with the data as to which fabric samples to use, as in cotton, poly, etc., and how long should the oil be in contact with the fabric before washing. Also, what is your favorite tranny oil. Thank you. I will be happy to report my findings.
John in WI

johnm

"I probably wouldn't use Transmission fluid for my machines because I hate the smell of it and what it does to my hair. I spilled a whole bottle of it in my hair and down my shirt when I changed the transmission in my old firebird. The hose popped out of the tranny and the whole bottle landed on me. No amount of washing with soap, shampoo or even that gritty Fast Orange took it all out. I looked like I was wearing a greasy Tina Turner for a week, just in time for a Christmas party too. Since then, I can't stand the smell of transmission oil"

Did it eat holes in your shirt ?
John in WI

Jamesbeat

Are you sure you're thinking of transmission fluid?
I can believe that it (or any petroleum based oil) could perhaps soften the bitumen in asphalt, but it definitely doesn't eat holes in fabric!
I have been using it on guns for years, and keep cloths saturated in it handy in tupperware containers. When they get too dirty, I throw them in the laundry and they get washed. Some of these cloths have been saturated for several years, and have been washed many times.
I have also spilled it on my clothes more times than I care to remember without any damage.

Could you perhaps be thinking of brake fluid or something?

Sunflowerzz

Okay, I'll join in, my point is probably mute but it is how I now feel about the vintage machines. Sewing machine lubrication evolution? I don't think we need it. Our vintage machines are much much older than we are and have been tested time and time again and again just by their rough treatment and zero treatment over the years and then can without so much as a groan start right up and happily sew for new generations of people.

What worked for these machines all of those hundred and more years ago will still work today. Part of the allure of these vintage machines is the simplicity that we are drawn to with lifestyles that nowadays border on hectic/frenzy.

One of the catch phrases at Seagate Technology where I worked a long time ago was K.I.S.S.
I have always liked that phrase and it reminds me ( maybe no one else) to do that. I use the old singer lube and I snap it up like it is gold every time I find a vintage tube of it. I remind myself of that catch phrase when my life gets too hectic.....Keep It Simple Stupid.

This is NOT directed at anyone. It is so easy to get carried away and complicate life more than it needs to be. Yes, research is/can be fun and in informative. But on the other hand why try to fix something that isn't broken and has worked so well for well over a century? Just asking.

My new catch phrase: I'd rather be sewing!

ArchaicArcane

I can't honestly remember what I did with the shirt. Probably threw it away. It would have been a grubby shirt anyway and by the time I saw my hair I probably didn't think the shirt was worth it.

Man! THAT stuff is nasty! I've seen what it will do to the painted parts of motorcycles and cars when people spill it.

ArchaicArcane

LOL! I agree. I guess what I'm getting at is Singer Lube has been changed and may some day be discontinued, so we (as tinkerers and service people) have evolved. It could happen that Tri-Flow could go away... stranger things have happened, then what would people use if they wanted something other than mineral oil?

I use sewing machine oil for the most part on most machines, other than one I know hasn't been maintained in a long time. I use a "cheap" zoom spout on my brand new long arm, so I'm certainly not looking for the latest greatest. I'm just really really used to the stuff I like being discontinued or changed so much that I have no interest in using it any longer.

SteveH

I love this discussion... Too cool.

So one point I think we are all glossing over is this.

What is the goal?

I mean that is the goal treating it for a current typical user, for long term wear considerations, hard use, long term storage, intermittent use, toxic avoidance, scent, etc etc.

I had a person at my last show ask what I use to lubricate them and when I said Tri-Flow you would have though I suggested Jesus wore girls underwear the way he went off on me about the evils of modern materials on old machines and how he ONLY uses real sewing machine oil. I asked him how he liked the smell of the whale oil, he had no idea what I was talking about. I explained about what the "original correct" material was. He actually backed off and apologized... but the point is, that having YOUR opinion (no matter how well informed) is not the same as knowing "the one true way" (which does not exist)

Also, just for reference, I do not use the same lubes on all of my machines. I have some machines that i could care less what they get oiled with, most that only get tri-flow, and even one that only get whale oil. (it is all it has ever known)

ArchaicArcane

Good point Steve! At the end of the day too, it's important to realise that even transmissions sometimes don't "care" what we use. When I was having trouble with the clutch and transmission in my firebird, I called the dealers to ask what the approved "lubricant" was for the transmission. One said gear oil, one said ATF, one said "Whatever you want, engine oil even...". I opted for the ATF, in the hopes that in the dead of winter here (-40F ish bad days) the car would not try to drive itself even in neutral anymore. The ATF was also reported to be easier on the syncros in the transmission, and I was all for that.

Soooooo, even though the original spec was for gear oil, the ATF was an upgrade that improved usability.

HA! That even worked out as an analogy!