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Thread: Company that makes Decals for older Machines

  1. #1
    Super Member SteveH's Avatar
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    Company that makes Decals for older Machines

    Hey folks,

    I have just received my new decals for the Singer 29 from a company that makes reproductions.

    I am curious if it is "kosher" to list the company here?

    I sent him three questions:
    1. Are there any plans to reproduce the remaining decals for this system (i.e. the "flourishes")
    2. Can you make the Large decal the correct size? (his is about 5-10% smaller than the original)
    3. Are there plans to provide upgraded versions which include the decal surface details (not just a "gold shadow" of the decal)
    Name:  29-4 decal compare.jpg
Views: 1030
Size:  62.6 KB

    His response was Yes, Yes (no body has pointed this out yet), and Yes (about 4-6 mos)

    I was already on a project with my daughter to redraw them all for the 29-4 and then work on making my own, but this company seems willing to be adjustable and responsive.


  2. #2
    Super Member SteveH's Avatar
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    I just made an amazing discovery (to me anyway)


    If you go to the Google Patent Search and use the terms "ornamentation sewing machine" you get tons of old patents where they registered their designs...

  3. #3
    Super Member Caroline S's Avatar
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    You are resourceful Steve. I had no idea that there were decals available for the 29. Stanley, our 29-4 needs new decals. He definitely needs new ones. I am sure that you can post the company name as you have no relationship with them other than being a customer.
    Sweet Caroline

  4. #4
    Super Member SteveH's Avatar
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  5. #5
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    There's someone on e-Bay selling them too!

  6. #6
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    You can also look on Ebay under "waterslide" decals. I am using some to restore my Model 12. They come very close if you can cut out some of the areas of embellishment. They are not exactly the same, but similar motif.

  7. #7
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    This guy is using photoshop to recreate the decals which is why his sizing is off because he's working from photographs. A and I have been trying to get the license to reproduce the Singer decals on various machines and Singer won't respond, so be cautious in what you buy. We've been in contact with this guy (he's also the seller on ebay and a few other places but they're all coming from him) because he won't confirm if he's authorized by Singer to be selling their images. Not saying he's bad or anything, as he does some really nice work but Singer was quick to tell us that we could not obtain an agreement to use their logos which means that he may not be selling something he has the legal right to sell.

  8. #8
    Super Member J Miller's Avatar
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    I've been tempted to buy some printable water slide decal sheets and make my own. I really don't have a printer that will do that though, but it's just an idea.
    I'm wondering what the legality of doing them just for yourself and not for sale would be?

    Joe

  9. #9
    Super Member SteveH's Avatar
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    Yep, I'm pretty sure he is the person n EBay as well.

    There is some sticky stuff here. These artwork designs are patented (I have found 16 specific so far, most from the late 1800's) However, There is a limit on how long those are valid, but "reissues" are also possible.

    Most companies will tell you that everything that they have ever done or made is "theirs" and "copyrighted" but in fact many are no longer so.

    There are also issues regarding "This works with machines like Singers" vs "I made this for Singer machines" vs "This is a Singer correct/original design" vs "This is a reproduction" (The joys of having a final year law school student for a DD)

    I am looking into this now, but in the meantime I am currently working on the Singer 29-4 set "with him" (I have supplied my research photos) and I am working with my artist DD to make my own set of drawings. I have access to a good color laser copier/printer and may try a non-metallic printing to see how it works.

  10. #10
    Super Member LAQUITA's Avatar
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    I am wondering how to get 'the rest' of the faded / missing decals off my FW so I can replace it with new ones., ANy suggestions?
    Thanks.
    LaQuita (aka) - Yai-Yai to the most precious grandbaby around of course I'm partial! LOL

    HAPPY QUILTING!
    www.caringbridge.org/visit/shea

  11. #11
    Super Member SteveH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAQUITA View Post
    I am wondering how to get 'the rest' of the faded / missing decals off my FW so I can replace it with new ones., ANy suggestions?
    Thanks.
    I can't make any direct suggestions but there have been a number of posts what say "do NOT do this or it will remove the old decals" I'd start doing one of those methods....

  12. #12
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    It is a slippery slope. Singer actually lost the rights to their name for a good while because a "singer" was sononymous with sewing machine much like "coke" is to soda or kleenex to tissues. They regained it in the 40s and repatented several things including the name Singer.

    Believe me we've spent hours doing research on the copyrights and patents and trademarks held by Singer for this very reason. It appears that they have reissued their copyrights and granted license to individuals for certain things like the lady who sells manuals, but we haven't been able to make the right contacts yet at Singer for this issue. We have already got the right materials to produce the waterslide decals, and we're doing original work for now but we would like to be able to restore machines to their original condition if a customer wants that, or make the decals available for the DIY restorers out there. So far that has been a no-go because we really don't want to get a cease and desist letter from Singer.

  13. #13
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    If I can get em', I'll buy em.... Done!!!

  14. #14
    Super Member Caroline S's Avatar
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    I have been thinking a lot about this discussion. The decals that we would like to have are vintage ones that Singer no longer uses and likely never produce produce again. Perhaps if everyone who refurbishes and restores antique and vintage Singer sewing machines contacted Singer regarding this matter might get permission to for the individuals to reproduce the decals. Power of many voices may get some response from Singer. Finding the correct contact may help. As my father said, "It is not what you know, it is WHO you know".
    Sweet Caroline

  15. #15
    Super Member SteveH's Avatar
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    I'm on this already. I have NO plans to produce anything that might be in conflict here. I respect Singer (the old Singer at least) and want to help collectors, not "make a few bucks".

    A couple of people have approached the Singer legal department and were soundly rebuffed. My plan is currently to be ABLE to produce a good reproduction, have the artwork, and production capability in place, and then approach Singer's marketing group about this opportunity, one which most of the work has already been done.

    In a perfect world I would like to be part of helping some supplier be able to produce decals for Singer to offer directly on their site.

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    I know that this is an old thread (pun). I restore FW's and the best way to remove old decals is with denatured alcohol from a hardware store and a lot of rubbing with a soft cloth that you apply it with. Once you start, you will have to remove all the old clear coat on the sewing table, to keep it smooth. This will not remove the paint just the shellac that they used to protect the paint and decals. When you get down to the decals it will take a little extra rubbing to remove them, from what I think, some of the decals were baked into the paint surface and may require a light rubbing of 2000 grit sand paper dipped into the alcohol to remove be gentle. You will have to clear coat over new decals. Auto spray paint clear coat enamel works well and will take about a week to set up before you can sew. Most of the top decals on the machines are usually in good shape and can be left on. If you are handy you may try this, if not just live with your old decals, Your machine may be ugly but if it works well love your ugly child!

  17. #17
    Super Member Jeanette Frantz's Avatar
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    I looked at the site for the decals. I would love to find decals for my National Two Spool Treadle Machine, but I'm not sure whether I really want to undertake that task!

    My machine shows wear on the decals on the bed -- just where you would expect it to wear! I know that Eldredge and National are no longer in business. If the online history is correct, Eldredge became National, which became New Home, which became Janome! Duh! That's a major project!

    Opinions?

    Jeanette Frantz

  18. #18
    Super Member Jeanette Frantz's Avatar
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    Joe,

    I don't think you would have any legal issue as long as you're making the decals for YOUR OWN USE. If you were SELLING THEM, you could very likely have some problems with copyright infringement . I'm not qualified to give legal advice, but making something for your own use -- I don't think you'd have a problem with that!

    JMHO

    Jeanette Frantz

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    Having worked with tons of lawyers, their default answer is No, even if it doesn't make any sense. "Can I breath your air? No!" and it's up to a court of law to determine if they are correct.

    Steve, I like your idea of approaching the singer marketing group. They would probably want to make it into a book or something, but lets not forget what their policy was when they received an exchange machine. it was to destroy it. Today they are in the market of consumables. If they publicize that you can get a 100 year old machine, and it will run a quintillion times more than their current machines, why would they advocate that?

    Just my thoughts, not trying to poopoo on anybodies hopes.

  20. #20
    Super Member SteveH's Avatar
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    right now I am just working with Keeler Sales website. So far very responsive to new ideas and good work. needs more improvements in the detail elements of the designs, but they are better than I could do at this point. I mentioned to them that the Singer 9W decals are cool and would look great on a 3/4 size singer, they now make them.

  21. #21
    Super Member SteveH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggenovez View Post
    Having worked with tons of lawyers, their default answer is No, even if it doesn't make any sense. "Can I breath your air? No!" and it's up to a court of law to determine if they are correct....If they publicize that you can get a 100 year old machine, and it will run a quintillion times more than their current machines, why would they advocate that? Just my thoughts, not trying to poopoo on anybodies hopes.
    Spot on. They have no motivation on this at all unless a person at singer high up in the food chain takes an interest.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAQUITA View Post
    I am wondering how to get 'the rest' of the faded / missing decals off my FW so I can replace it with new ones., ANy suggestions?
    Thanks.
    I use acetone to remove decals. Use a cotton rag and wrap it around your finger and rub in a circular motion. 0000 steel wool will remove the ghosts left behind but, don't " scrub " too hard or you'll remove the paint. Of course you'll have to re- topcoat after you do it.

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