That darn cat
08-04-2014, 01:00 PM
#31
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 911
cathy, That new home is smaller. measruring from the right end of the colum to teh face plate the NH is a 1/2" shorter. from the slide plate to the top of the arm HM is 1/2" shorter, The bed is the same width, but the HM is 3/4" shorter.
on the unkown, I came up with new home by the geared drive, opposed to cam / crank and lever. I've only seem that in NH products ?? the Y spoke handwheel, the syle of needle bar take up lever.
but. Both know NH's I have use a flat needle bar and stitch lenght rod. The unknown all that is made from round bar. Ido know of a real NH that has a round needle bar, same vintage of machine. take up spring on face plate on teh UNK is at the top, where both NH's are at teh Bottom, all teh same style, thread guide are all the same
upper tension, NH no release lever, The UNK has a release lever, more of a tab and at the rear.. The UNK uses two piece of metal plate to make up the tensoin system where the NH's use one
UNK. patent date 1892 serail number stamp under slide plate 549769 maybe also on the stitch plate to rust pitted to be sure. uses a tunnle shuttle thats very pointed. rear slide plate is all needle size info
new NH is just to rusted to see anything, I just busted the slide plates, SN# 1111539. I can see the shuttle , it is a tunnel shuttle, using needle bar phrases this must be a 2nd gen oldstyle LOL.. it was free.
I was wrong the new to me NH has a rounded bed, so does the unkown, it's the new to me FW (free westinghouse play on words terms LOL ) that has the squared bed.
cathy the big question , do you by chance have of know of the diffrent version of new Home treadle stands. mainly the flywheel mounting ?
on the unkown, I came up with new home by the geared drive, opposed to cam / crank and lever. I've only seem that in NH products ?? the Y spoke handwheel, the syle of needle bar take up lever.
but. Both know NH's I have use a flat needle bar and stitch lenght rod. The unknown all that is made from round bar. Ido know of a real NH that has a round needle bar, same vintage of machine. take up spring on face plate on teh UNK is at the top, where both NH's are at teh Bottom, all teh same style, thread guide are all the same
upper tension, NH no release lever, The UNK has a release lever, more of a tab and at the rear.. The UNK uses two piece of metal plate to make up the tensoin system where the NH's use one
UNK. patent date 1892 serail number stamp under slide plate 549769 maybe also on the stitch plate to rust pitted to be sure. uses a tunnle shuttle thats very pointed. rear slide plate is all needle size info
new NH is just to rusted to see anything, I just busted the slide plates, SN# 1111539. I can see the shuttle , it is a tunnel shuttle, using needle bar phrases this must be a 2nd gen oldstyle LOL.. it was free.
I was wrong the new to me NH has a rounded bed, so does the unkown, it's the new to me FW (free westinghouse play on words terms LOL ) that has the squared bed.
cathy the big question , do you by chance have of know of the diffrent version of new Home treadle stands. mainly the flywheel mounting ?
08-04-2014, 01:22 PM
#33
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 8,136
hmm- seems Standard had quite a variety of top tension - while New Home and National pretty much stuck with teh same one.
Ok - I have just spent too much time looking at top tensions . . . I need to go some bank recs for a while.
Ok - I have just spent too much time looking at top tensions . . . I need to go some bank recs for a while.
08-04-2014, 01:52 PM
#34
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 911
ok now where getting interesting here .. the unk, upper tesion is like the national pictured... The lady I got this from said it's snadia, going off it's treadle cabinet name, but I didn't look at teh cabinet... the head was covered with flaking rust, when I clean it . I swear I could make out the huge H in the center of NH, plus on the face plate I can see two silvered flowers as NH has ?
The hand wheels on both these are the V style but that NH's V both are about the same size of V, but the hand wheel ring. the part you touch. is very thich / wide on the UNk, the major difference, UNk use a standard looking knob as the clutch ? release, the new home no knob, use a ring and setscrew to hold the wheel on, to release a spring load pin and hole in the hub behind the wheel..
had to go check my nice NH. wheel fastened on the same why, but the wheel has the U spokes. it is a light running machine.
now I'm under the impression that national and NH both used this gear unit in these machines. only nationals I've had have been branded names, more on the lines of 20's ? 30's machines.
I have a gut feeling I should grad up the treadle stand that has national on it's legs ?? yet would never find teh missing pieces.
The question on the NH stands wheel mounting is all I have are supported on both sides one wooden P arm, one steel P arm . The one I'm buying is only support on one side and is a wooden P arm like a wheeler wilson. It wheel is frozen, it must have roller bearings to have a single support ??
like steve my kenmore is like the standards upper tension... from steves photo's the only diference I saw in those two kenmores was there handcranks, afew yrs ago there were posting of machines with different names , each having teh target / arrow logo in the beds center, none where handcranks, on mine there is no belt pulley or mounting casting for a motor..
I have to wunder if, way back when these smaller companys use vendors to make parts. some guy had bought atreadle lathe and made screws all day long in the kitchen or bedroom..
The hand wheels on both these are the V style but that NH's V both are about the same size of V, but the hand wheel ring. the part you touch. is very thich / wide on the UNk, the major difference, UNk use a standard looking knob as the clutch ? release, the new home no knob, use a ring and setscrew to hold the wheel on, to release a spring load pin and hole in the hub behind the wheel..
had to go check my nice NH. wheel fastened on the same why, but the wheel has the U spokes. it is a light running machine.
now I'm under the impression that national and NH both used this gear unit in these machines. only nationals I've had have been branded names, more on the lines of 20's ? 30's machines.
I have a gut feeling I should grad up the treadle stand that has national on it's legs ?? yet would never find teh missing pieces.
The question on the NH stands wheel mounting is all I have are supported on both sides one wooden P arm, one steel P arm . The one I'm buying is only support on one side and is a wooden P arm like a wheeler wilson. It wheel is frozen, it must have roller bearings to have a single support ??
like steve my kenmore is like the standards upper tension... from steves photo's the only diference I saw in those two kenmores was there handcranks, afew yrs ago there were posting of machines with different names , each having teh target / arrow logo in the beds center, none where handcranks, on mine there is no belt pulley or mounting casting for a motor..
I have to wunder if, way back when these smaller companys use vendors to make parts. some guy had bought atreadle lathe and made screws all day long in the kitchen or bedroom..
08-04-2014, 02:52 PM
#37
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Join Date: May 2012
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here's teh kenmore I have. I got this about 3 to 4 weeks before your post on kenmore.. like you sreached, but only found that they used this name 3 or 4 years, Didn't find anything in needle bar. every thing I found was in sears archives..
only real difference betwen the two that I saw was the handcrank, mines bobbin winder is mount as a part of the crank housing. and uses a gear that ingauges to the gear inside the crank housing..
two screws hold the crank on, so when off the machine, it crank and bobbin winder as a unit.. ofcourse there bases are not the same..
I can't blame cat on this one, I waited almost 4 months for this local goodwill to drop the price, low enough to haggle over. they dropped it from 80 to 60 during that time, course no buyers, ayear before she and I had a bit of a discusion on what a handcrank sewing machine is ( not because it has a big wheel on the end ) knowing that at this time she'd know the difference and remember that. I offered $40 USD on the spot , cash. she said ok with a red face LOL..
I'm sure there is not a whole lot of these around
only real difference betwen the two that I saw was the handcrank, mines bobbin winder is mount as a part of the crank housing. and uses a gear that ingauges to the gear inside the crank housing..
two screws hold the crank on, so when off the machine, it crank and bobbin winder as a unit.. ofcourse there bases are not the same..
I can't blame cat on this one, I waited almost 4 months for this local goodwill to drop the price, low enough to haggle over. they dropped it from 80 to 60 during that time, course no buyers, ayear before she and I had a bit of a discusion on what a handcrank sewing machine is ( not because it has a big wheel on the end ) knowing that at this time she'd know the difference and remember that. I offered $40 USD on the spot , cash. she said ok with a red face LOL..
I'm sure there is not a whole lot of these around
08-04-2014, 02:55 PM
#38
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 8,136
Steve, - if you go to Needlebar and look under Standard for photos - you will see that exact machine.
That is an Arrow class machine, the one I posted the tension from is the same class, but a different name. Mine was made for a cabinet, not the metal base version.
http://needlebar.org/cm/displayimage..._display_media
interesting narrative about Sears and the Kenmore name too.
xxx.... look at the bottom of your unknown machine and compare it. Needlebar has quite a bit about this one because it is commonly mistaken for the New Home (which is probably what National was after). Yours has the serial number in the right place to be a National too. As you discovered, it's not in the same place as the New Home.
http://needlebar.org/cm/displayimage..._display_media
I have spent so much time studying pictures on the Needlebar site trying to learn how to identify the particular machines I was after - since all I had to go by was the Names from the Boye list. One does learn a lot that way LOL!!
That is an Arrow class machine, the one I posted the tension from is the same class, but a different name. Mine was made for a cabinet, not the metal base version.
http://needlebar.org/cm/displayimage..._display_media
interesting narrative about Sears and the Kenmore name too.
xxx.... look at the bottom of your unknown machine and compare it. Needlebar has quite a bit about this one because it is commonly mistaken for the New Home (which is probably what National was after). Yours has the serial number in the right place to be a National too. As you discovered, it's not in the same place as the New Home.
http://needlebar.org/cm/displayimage..._display_media
I have spent so much time studying pictures on the Needlebar site trying to learn how to identify the particular machines I was after - since all I had to go by was the Names from the Boye list. One does learn a lot that way LOL!!
08-04-2014, 03:00 PM
#40
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 8,136
One of the things I have learned, one of the easist ways to indentify the Mfg is to see what attachents fit. Becuase that is one thing that seems to be unique with the top clamp machines. Standard is very unique, with those two odd shaped holes in the plate to the inside of the needle - you will see the same two holes on their early machines all the way to the SewHandy. And in the very end - everybody (US companies) ended up like Singer LOL!!! OK - that was mostly because they all started being made by the Japanses and they never messed with the top clamp setup.
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