Go Back  Quiltingboard Forums >
  • Main
  • For Vintage & Antique Machine Enthusiasts
  • White Model 77 - Buttonholer Attachment Issues >
  • White Model 77 - Buttonholer Attachment Issues

  • White Model 77 - Buttonholer Attachment Issues

    Old 01-06-2017, 07:06 PM
      #1  
    Member
    Thread Starter
     
    Join Date: Jan 2017
    Posts: 4
    Default White Model 77 - Buttonholer Attachment Issues

    Hi all!! New to the forum.

    I recently inherited a White model 77 sewing machine. I cleaned the machine, replaced drive wheel, and power cord. It works perfectly and performs a very nice straight sew.

    To have a little fun with the machine, I bought a few attachments/feet off of eBay, including a buttonholer. It looks identical to this:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Whit...sAAOSw8RJXCvGb

    Now the issue, when I install it, everything works fine except the threads are not engaging. The fabric moves around as it should, needle moves up and down (going through the base plate of the attachment). If I only install the base plate for the attachment, it does the same thing. However, as soon as I remove that plate the sewing machine works fine.

    Does this issue sound familiar to anybody?

    Thanks.
    Kyle BP is offline  
    Old 01-07-2017, 05:18 AM
      #2  
    Super Member
     
    lovelyl's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2011
    Location: SW Ohio
    Posts: 2,103
    Default

    Welcome to the board! I am not familiar with White machines, but have used Singer buttonholers (that look very similar to the one pictured) with no problems. Are you sure the base plate is the correct one for your buttonholer? Sometimes vintage parts get mixed up in sewing baskets, etc. and it may not be the plate that goes with your attachment.
    Sorry I can't be of more help, but I am sure someone else here will be able to help you. If not, there is a site for vintage machines called Victorian Sweatshop and someone there may be able to help. Good luck!
    lovelyl is offline  
    Old 01-07-2017, 05:59 PM
      #3  
    Super Member
     
    OurWorkbench's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Mar 2015
    Location: Denver, CO
    Posts: 4,305
    Default

    Originally Posted by Kyle BP
    Hi all!! New to the forum.
    ...

    To have a little fun with the machine, I bought a few attachments/feet off of eBay, including a buttonholer. It looks identical to this:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Whit...sAAOSw8RJXCvGb
    ...

    Does this issue sound familiar to anybody?

    Thanks.
    Welcome Kyle,

    I'm not sure that I understand. Is it a "White Magic Key Buttonhole Worker" and did it come with a manual? I haven't tried mine on any of my White machines (11, 41 & 43). I pulled the Buttonhole Worker that I have out and checked the manual. I have used the Singer buttonholer and really liked it but it attaches differently than the White does. Something that I noted was that in order to attach the attachment that one has to take off the presser foot holder. Something else I noticed was for the "Magic Key" that the instructions don't tell you to bring up the bobbin thread to start. The Singer manual says to lower the presser bar and then hold on to top thread and take a stitch to bring up the bobbin thread. You do have to lower it to actually stitch the button hole.

    I'm gathering that you do have the plate (to cover the feed dogs so that attachment can move the material) and the attachment firmly attached in the correct position and that the needle isn't hitting through its complete cycle. Is it that you can't bring up the bobbin thread? I know I have sometimes adjusted the top tension, but that is a personal preference based on what the sample looks like. I don't remember ever making a sample without making any adjustments that it didn't work.

    Good luck. Is this your only machine? Have you used other buttonhole attachments on other machines?

    Janey - Neat people never make the exciting discoveries I do.

    Last edited by OurWorkbench; 01-07-2017 at 06:03 PM. Reason: correction & grammar
    OurWorkbench is offline  
    Old 01-08-2017, 05:04 AM
      #4  
    Super Member
     
    Join Date: Sep 2015
    Posts: 1,963
    Default

    I'm assuming something is pushing the movement of the needle or needle bar off it's position since it's not forming stitches. These buttonholers should not do that, but for some reson it seems like yours might do.

    Check if the needle is inserted the correct way; further check for grime and dust behind the needle clamp where the shank of the needle goes. Both of these will give erratic stitch formation.

    If you use the very soft light weight thread meant for overlocking it can make stitch formation act up. Test sewing with sew-all polyester or medium weight cotton is often the easiest.

    I'm guessing it's something basic that needs to be checked, cleaned or threaded correctly. Make sure the bottonholer is oiled and moves freely.
    Mickey2 is offline  
    Old 01-08-2017, 01:29 PM
      #5  
    Member
    Thread Starter
     
    Join Date: Jan 2017
    Posts: 4
    Default

    This is my only working sewing machine. I have a second 77 I bought a couple months ago for $50, to use for parts (if needed). This is the first time I've tried using a buttonholer. My sewing career is pretty minimal, most recently sewed a lab coat from a sheet for my 3 yr old (wanted to be a doctor for Halloween).

    @Mickey2
    The thread I'm using is pretty thin, so I'll try some thicker thread. The sewing machine does occasionally cause thread to bunch up under the fabric, so the bobbin area may need cleaned. I agree that the buttonholer shouldn't be affecting the movement of the needle.

    @OurWorkBench
    With the base plate installed, the bobbin thread does not get pulled up. I can start with the bobbin thread exposed below or above the base plate, but that does not seem to matter. The attachments says "White" in big letters, but I'm not sure of the specific model and it did not come with a manual.

    @lovelyl
    I don't know how to verify it is the right base plate, but it does seem to fit correctly.


    Thank you for the advice so far. It'll probably be a week or so before I play around with the sewing machine again, but will let you know what I find.
    Kyle BP is offline  
    Old 01-08-2017, 03:36 PM
      #6  
    Super Member
     
    Join Date: Sep 2015
    Posts: 1,963
    Default

    I don't know if your White model allows for the feed dogs to drop, but you could try by setting them to zero. Either way, as long as the stitch plate clicks into place and stays tehre, aligns with the needle hole under there and covers the feed dogs, I would assume it's the right one.

    The most important fitting part with the old buttonholers seems to be the presser bar and the screw where the presser fot usually goes. It should of course align with the needle position too, but I haven't come across many variations there. It should be very obvious if it does or doesn't.

    Straight stitchers are usually very dependable and if you easily get a thread mess around the bobbin area, I would assume it's either time for cleaning and a bit of maintanance; and it's always a good idea to double (and tripple!) check threading route, needle in the correct way, correct needle type for the machine etc. I have a Singer 99 and a 201, and going from one machine to the other, I have more than once found my self inserting the needle in the wrong way (my 201 threads from right to left, model 99 is the other way around).

    If the machine is new to you, double check you have the correct bobbins and needles too. I know I had to read the manual a few times to pick up on all the small things on my 201, and it's a simple straight stitcher too. I think they advice not to mess with the top tension too much, it's not as easy to pick this type appart and get it back together as most tension dials are. Make sure you read up on it in advance at least. My experience is and old machine needs a few rounds of cleaning and oiling before it's back to the way it was meant to be.
    Mickey2 is offline  
    Old 01-08-2017, 07:36 PM
      #7  
    Super Member
     
    OurWorkbench's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Mar 2015
    Location: Denver, CO
    Posts: 4,305
    Default

    Originally Posted by Mickey2
    I don't know if your White model allows for the feed dogs to drop, but you could try by setting them to zero. Either way, as long as the stitch plate clicks into place and stays tehre, aligns with the needle hole under there and covers the feed dogs, I would assume it's the right one.
    ...
    it's always a good idea to double (and tripple!) check threading route, needle in the correct way, correct needle type for the machine etc.
    No, the feed dogs do not drop on the White 77, that is why they need to be covered by the plate.
    Mickey2 is correct about checking and rechecking threading and needle which probably would be a size
    12 or 14 of the 15x1 needles. I think most of my buttonholes I've made with universal points, but could also use sharps.

    I'm thinking that the White tension can be pretty fiddly when it comes to threading correctly. This image is from a screen shot that I edited from the pdf manual that I got from the singerco.com site.

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]565288[/ATTACH]

    Note the red box --- some of the other instructions don't have this little tidbit of information. See links given later.


    Originally Posted by Kyle BP
    ....
    @lovelyl
    I don't know how to verify it is the right base plate, but it does seem to fit correctly.
    The plate would look like the one in this ad
    http://www.ebay.ca/itm/ws/eBayISAPI....m=282313857483
    particularly the third image. They are all showing with the side that goes toward the bed of the machine out.


    Originally Posted by Kyle BP
    Thank you for the advice so far. It'll probably be a week or so before I play around with the sewing machine again, but will let you know what I find.

    Maybe I can get the Buttonhole Worker manual scanned this week.


    Something in particular about the vintage machines is that when you start sewing to hold the bobbin thread and the top thread brought a few inches behind the work. Of course, that isn't the case when working a buttonhole. The attachment and the plate need to be firmly attached to their respective positions before bringing up the bobbin thread.

    Most buttonholer instructions will tell you that you need a firm surface to work the buttonhole. This will sometimes mean interfacing between the two layers of fabric where you want the buttonhole, or at least an extra layer of fabric. I usually had interfacing.

    I'm sorry I can't get my links to show in abbreviated form. Here are some links that apply to the machine and threading.

    http://www.quiltingboard.com/vintage...p-t251165.html
    http://www.quiltingboard.com/vintage...c-t172420.html
    http://ismacs.net/domestic/manuals/d...ine-manual.pdf
    http://www.sewusa.com/Threading_Diag...ng_Diagram.htm


    The site from ismacs was put in as it was referred to in one of the QB threads and has better pictures than the manual from singerco.

    I noticed I have rust on the bottom of my Buttonhole Worker, so I probably won't try to mess with trying it out this week. Maybe the above links will help with verifying proper threading and maybe be of some help.

    Janey - Neat people never make the exciting discoveries I do.






    Attached Thumbnails white77manual-threading.jpg  
    OurWorkbench is offline  
    Old 01-08-2017, 09:01 PM
      #8  
    Member
    Thread Starter
     
    Join Date: Jan 2017
    Posts: 4
    Default

    Originally Posted by OurWorkbench
    The plate would look like the one in this ad
    http://www.ebay.ca/itm/ws/eBayISAPI....m=282313857483
    particularly the third image. They are all showing with the side that goes toward the bed of the machine out.

    That is exactly what the plate looks like. I actually had to buy a 10-30 TPI tap to clean the threads in the bolt whole where the plate secures. (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

    I must have skipped over page 15 of the manual, because I wasn't sure what that front lever does. I'll have to try it in the "Z" setting.

    Another issue I've noticed is that the bobbin doesn't "snap" into place. It feels a little loose. I may have to try my spare bobbin holder.
    [ATTACH=CONFIG]565299[/ATTACH]

    I'll let you know what I find once I get a chance to play around with it.
    Attached Thumbnails capture.jpg  

    Last edited by Kyle BP; 01-08-2017 at 09:02 PM. Reason: typo
    Kyle BP is offline  
    Old 01-08-2017, 09:08 PM
      #9  
    Member
    Thread Starter
     
    Join Date: Jan 2017
    Posts: 4
    Default

    Here are a few pictures to share

    Bought by my wife's grandparents
    [ATTACH=CONFIG]565301[/ATTACH]

    Cabinet and spare machine
    [ATTACH=CONFIG]565302[/ATTACH]

    Halloween outfit. The scrubs used to be full size (hence the large v-neck).
    [ATTACH=CONFIG]565303[/ATTACH]
    Attached Thumbnails 1.jpg   2.jpg   3.jpg  
    Kyle BP is offline  
    Old 01-09-2017, 05:07 AM
      #10  
    Super Member
     
    Join Date: Sep 2015
    Posts: 1,963
    Default

    Your machine and cabinet looks lovely, and in nice condition too. The costume is spot on! :- )

    If you should happen to try and polish it up be careful when choosing polish. Crinkle finish in good condition is easy to clean and has a pearl shine to it. I used resin type car polish on a crinkle finish case once, and I had a very hard time polishing of the white film it left behind. Make sure you get the resin polish with out the white grit part, often called glaze or sealant (and often used as a second step after the first polish). These work well with the crinkle finish, but doesn't polish up further dirt like the basic polish can. I just had to warn you in case you ever should think of it. I polish my machines once or twice a year with the hope it leaves a protetive film preventing further wear. This finish tend to be rather robust but very dirty machines often require lots of velvety microfiber cloths or similar to clean all those crinkles.

    Last edited by Mickey2; 01-09-2017 at 05:15 AM.
    Mickey2 is offline  
    Related Topics
    Thread
    Thread Starter
    Forum
    Replies
    Last Post
    oldsewnsew
    For Vintage & Antique Machine Enthusiasts
    11
    08-07-2014 07:05 AM
    Rodney
    For Vintage & Antique Machine Enthusiasts
    6
    02-13-2014 02:43 PM
    Rodney
    For Vintage & Antique Machine Enthusiasts
    18
    10-24-2013 07:51 AM
    Caroline S
    For Vintage & Antique Machine Enthusiasts
    8
    01-28-2012 08:07 PM

    Posting Rules
    You may not post new threads
    You may not post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are Off
    Pingbacks are Off
    Refbacks are Off


    FREE Quilting Newsletter