Copyright aggrevation.
07-24-2010, 05:50 AM
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Posts: 498
Everything everybody says is correct. It is a very "sticky" issue. The one for me that comes to mind is the "Norwegian Chicken Pattern" that Doreen Speckman "copyrighted" or so it says on the pattern that I have. There are so many patterns and kinds of those out there that it really does make you wonder. I think if you're really going to mass produce you need to find out for sure what you need to do but I'm pretty sure the IRS isn't going to worry about a little quilter/sewer doing "nickle and dime" stuff. And, if you think people are abusing the copyright law...report them...that's the only way people will learn.......Now I'll get off my soap box!
07-24-2010, 06:32 AM
#42
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Clemmons, NC
Posts: 1,055
Originally Posted by dunster
Chele, your heart is definitely in the right place, but perhaps we're talking about different things. There is a huge difference between making (and selling) items from a legally obtained pattern and copying someone's original work without permission.
The legitimate use of a pattern is not a matter of ethics or manners. It is a matter of copyright law, which the pattern maker should understand before selling her pattern. If she wants to have more control than the law provides, she should not sell the pattern.
It's not as if you are ripping off the pattern maker. You are paying the asking price for the pattern, and with that goes the right to make items from the pattern. You own whatever you make, and so you have the right to sell it if you choose. I say this from the standpoint of someone who is currently selling a quilt pattern. I hope that everyone who buys my pattern will make many, many quilts from it, and if they want to sell, display, give away, donate, or even burn those quilts, they have the absolute right to do so. I am being compensated for my time and expenses by the payment I receive from the pattern, and that is all I am entitled to. If someone wants to give me credit for having written the pattern, I will be thrilled to receive it, but I will look on that as a nice gesture, not as something the quilter was required by law or ethics to provide.
The legitimate use of a pattern is not a matter of ethics or manners. It is a matter of copyright law, which the pattern maker should understand before selling her pattern. If she wants to have more control than the law provides, she should not sell the pattern.
It's not as if you are ripping off the pattern maker. You are paying the asking price for the pattern, and with that goes the right to make items from the pattern. You own whatever you make, and so you have the right to sell it if you choose. I say this from the standpoint of someone who is currently selling a quilt pattern. I hope that everyone who buys my pattern will make many, many quilts from it, and if they want to sell, display, give away, donate, or even burn those quilts, they have the absolute right to do so. I am being compensated for my time and expenses by the payment I receive from the pattern, and that is all I am entitled to. If someone wants to give me credit for having written the pattern, I will be thrilled to receive it, but I will look on that as a nice gesture, not as something the quilter was required by law or ethics to provide.
Originally Posted by Chele
What if I figure out Apple's "pattern" for the IPhone? Do you think I could sell it? Or is that that license/law thing? Doesn't it really boil down to ethics or manners? If you didn't create it, you should really ask permission to profit from it.
As an aside, I bet all of you talented quilters could come up with your own wonderful patterns. And I'm sure you'd be more than willing to share with the rest of the world. That's what I love about quilters. Huge hearts and sharing personalities. And if your fellow quilter made billions off your pattern without ever asking if it was okay, you'd send a congratulations bouquet, right? Laws or not, what's the right thing to do?
As an aside, I bet all of you talented quilters could come up with your own wonderful patterns. And I'm sure you'd be more than willing to share with the rest of the world. That's what I love about quilters. Huge hearts and sharing personalities. And if your fellow quilter made billions off your pattern without ever asking if it was okay, you'd send a congratulations bouquet, right? Laws or not, what's the right thing to do?
07-24-2010, 06:57 AM
#43
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: The woods of Northern Maine
Posts: 816
Originally Posted by ctack2
I might be overthinking this but this is what my little pea brain does this time of morning.
Does that mean that a restaurant can buy food ingredients but can't make anything with these ingredients and sell them without asking permission?
Does this also mean that a baker can buy a cookbook but can't make a cake from a recipe out of the book to sell without getting permission from the cookbook people?
I'm going to shut up now and go back to bed.....even though I could go on and on and on.
Carol B
Does that mean that a restaurant can buy food ingredients but can't make anything with these ingredients and sell them without asking permission?
Does this also mean that a baker can buy a cookbook but can't make a cake from a recipe out of the book to sell without getting permission from the cookbook people?
I'm going to shut up now and go back to bed.....even though I could go on and on and on.
Carol B
07-24-2010, 07:08 AM
#44
Super Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 1,804
Generally if you buy a pattern or book of patterns it usually has somewhere on it that the pattern cannot be sold or copied except for personal use. Anything you make from the pattern is yours to do with as you please. The pattern maker makes money from the sale of the pattern not from what you make using their pattern. That's why they put on it not to copy, except for personal use, or sell their pattern for profit.
07-24-2010, 08:36 AM
#45
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Newberg, OR
Posts: 1,911
This is all so confusing to me. The more responses I read, the more confused I am. This is my take-away:
The copyright belongs to the pattern, not the item that comes from the pattern. However, one cannot mass produce from a copyrighted pattern for personal profit, meaning, you can't take someone else's copyrighted pattern, open a factory, and produce zillions of quilts for sale from that one pattern. However, a quilter can make a quilt from a copyrighted pattern and sell it to another individual at a fair or something like that. Do I have it about right?
Now here's where I'm confused. I am making art quilts for the Alzheimer's Art Quilt Initiative, and if I use a pattern from a designer, I have to get permission before I submit my quilt to AAQI. (Incidentally, I have found designers to be very gracious about giving their permission and seem delighted that I like their pattern enough to want to do this.) From what you all have written, this permission isn't really necessary. Rather, it's something the AAQI requires to cover their own behinds. And do I have that about right?
The copyright belongs to the pattern, not the item that comes from the pattern. However, one cannot mass produce from a copyrighted pattern for personal profit, meaning, you can't take someone else's copyrighted pattern, open a factory, and produce zillions of quilts for sale from that one pattern. However, a quilter can make a quilt from a copyrighted pattern and sell it to another individual at a fair or something like that. Do I have it about right?
Now here's where I'm confused. I am making art quilts for the Alzheimer's Art Quilt Initiative, and if I use a pattern from a designer, I have to get permission before I submit my quilt to AAQI. (Incidentally, I have found designers to be very gracious about giving their permission and seem delighted that I like their pattern enough to want to do this.) From what you all have written, this permission isn't really necessary. Rather, it's something the AAQI requires to cover their own behinds. And do I have that about right?
07-24-2010, 09:04 AM
#47
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Chester, AR
Posts: 99
A couple of years ago I had the opportunity to meet Carol Doak at a workshop. I had taken in one of my first quilts that was made entirely from her stars. I had given her credit on my label for the pattern designs and gave credit to myself for the quilt design, piecing and quilting. It was really a nice moment to see her smile and to receive her autograph and a very encouraging comment on my label. Whether this was necessary or not did not matter, it really felt like the right thing to do. I feel it also adds further documentation to the label.
07-24-2010, 09:06 AM
#48
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 32
I think the whole copyright issue has been taken way beyond what it was meant for. If someone uses it to mass produce an item, of course that would not be right. However an example of just plain selfishness is when I called Debbie Field (Granola Girl) and asked if I could sell 1 item made from a pattern in her book. She was as rude as could be and said "absolutely not!" Guess what, I will not be buying any of her books or patterns and neither will my friends.
07-24-2010, 09:09 AM
#49
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Big Bear Lake CA
Posts: 36
There is a good article in the Sep/Oct McCall's Quilting mag about copyrights. I sell some of my patterns to quilt stores.....some in Canada......one of the stores wrote me about seeing a lady......copying one of my patterns and teaching it....when asked she said the designer wasn't selling anymore.........I think if you use a design while making a quilt, one should really give the Original designer credit......even if you just say that it was adapted from the pattern.......When you consider the work that goes into developing a new design and then working out the measurements, etc...and the printing, etc...I think it only a nice consideration to give that person credit.
07-24-2010, 09:15 AM
#50
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Somerset PA
Posts: 719
Someone several years ago had posted to a machine embroidery group about this type of issue.
A lawyer( husband of amember) responded that to make a case of copyright infringement a designer would have to prove a loss because of your actions.
So they would need to lose money because you were competing with them in the marketplace with their item.
the example of Disney was used.
Disney has stores and sell items embroidered with Disney cartoons on them mickey mouse,pluto etc.
If you made and sold embroidered hats with the same cartoons you would be taking away from their income so copyright infringement but if you only made for yourself and you purchased the designs from them- no infringement.
A lawyer( husband of amember) responded that to make a case of copyright infringement a designer would have to prove a loss because of your actions.
So they would need to lose money because you were competing with them in the marketplace with their item.
the example of Disney was used.
Disney has stores and sell items embroidered with Disney cartoons on them mickey mouse,pluto etc.
If you made and sold embroidered hats with the same cartoons you would be taking away from their income so copyright infringement but if you only made for yourself and you purchased the designs from them- no infringement.
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