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Thread: Not to keep stirring the pot, but....

  1. #51
    Super Member quilterguy27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deborah12687
    Quote Originally Posted by quilterguy27
    Thanks Deborah! This helped clear the muddy water a bit. I don't know if I'm just dumb or what, but I STILL don't get it. Is there a way to interpret this into laymans terms so we can all understand it?

    I know I'm not that dumb. I've been college educated. I know it can't be just me that can't grasp this concept. I've read so many articles and statutes and stories on this website and that concerning copyright laws and who can do what and I'm just as confused now as ever. I really think they do this on purpose just to keep us confused. If we don't understand it, maybe we won't challenge it.
    Just wanted to say you are not the dumb one here nor any one else on this board. For the life of me why can't they spell it out in plain language....they are the dumb people by making things so complicated. I am really tempted to send a letter to McCalls maybe we should "ALL" write a letter.
    I just received an online e-mail to re-up my subscription with 2 free gifts. I also got one in the mail. No free gifts. I am going to send back the form in their postage paid envelope saying I am not renewing my subscription and why.

  2. #52
    Super Member quilterguy27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobbin along
    Well, just for the record, my avatar is called Fireworks, and it was designed by Renee Peterson. It does have elements of New York Beauty, but believe me, there is a whole lot of creativity that went into this. I asked her permission to use it on line (I made the one shown here) and she told me to "Go forth and show people what you are doing!" It is copywrited and appeared in McCall's mag at the end of the year, 2009.

    There now my conscience is clear! Thanks, Renee!
    Good Job Bobbin Along. Glad to hear it. Although, if you read the copyright thing in the beginning of McCalls mag, they hold part of the rights to what is published in their mag. One more reason to reconsider making patterns from magazines.

  3. #53
    Super Member quilterguy27's Avatar
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    I have to agree with Conniequilts and quiltmaker. How can they be new and how can you claim them as your "original" work?

  4. #54
    Super Member quilterguy27's Avatar
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    As many have said, there are just way too many blocks out in the public domain with instructions on how to make them. So, what ever would you need to buy a magazine and use a pattern out of it to copy something someone else did? also, just learned my Mother just bought me three quilting books. Two of them have the same copyright statement in them and the third one has no copyright statement in it anywhere. She said she went thru it 3 times with a magnifying glass and couldn't find anything. Now that's a book I want and will use. Somebody's got the right idea.

  5. #55
    Power Poster Sadiemae's Avatar
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    I keep thinking about something:
    When a designer writes on his/her pattern (Only for personal use, may not sell items made from this pattern.) I can't help but think about what happens in the future.
    For example, suppose I really like a pattern and I make 5 or 6 quilts. I just put them in my stash and they stay there until I die. Okay now say I have a mean Uncle Harry (I don't) and he doesn't want anything I made. So he sells the quilts to get the money because he is mean and greedy, or he auctions them off with the rest of my stuff. Now according to their copywright, Mean Uncle Harry is breaking the law and doesn't even know about it. How would they like to handle this, or does he catch a break because he is dumb.

  6. #56
    Super Member Deborah12687's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sadiemae
    I keep thinking about something:
    When a designer writes on his/her pattern (Only for personal use, may not sell items made from this pattern.) I can't help but think about what happens in the future.
    For example, suppose I really like a pattern and I make 5 or 6 quilts. I just put them in my stash and they stay there until I die. Okay now say I have a mean Uncle Harry (I don't) and he doesn't want anything I made. So he sells the quilts to get the money because he is mean and greedy, or he auctions them off with the rest of my stuff. Now according to their copywright, Mean Uncle Harry is breaking the law and doesn't even know about it. How would they like to handle this, or does he catch a break because he is dumb.
    If your uncle Harry sells the quilt he is not the person who made it so he wouldn't know about the restriction and can't be charged with any copy right in fringment.

  7. #57
    Power Poster Sadiemae's Avatar
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    Deborah12687 Thank you! That makes sense, but I can see abuse coming with these types of situations. "I didn't know!" said the little old gentleman.

    I think these laws need to rewritten like someone else said, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

  8. #58
    Senior Member kapatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaigai
    A lot of this stuff-ok most of it-- is addressed in these articles. Relax ladies.

    http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/...uiltThis.shtml

    http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/...Quilting.shtml
    Those are great articles! Thank you for posting the links.

  9. #59
    Power Poster Jingle's Avatar
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    Doesn't apply to me, I give almost all of my quilts away.
    I don't take any quilting magazines and haven't for years. Not renewing anyother mag.s I get, too busy making quilts and get tired of them laying around.

  10. #60
    Super Member Emma S's Avatar
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    Sorry guys. Read all of the posts and the articles sited still can't figure it out. I understand why a teacher using someone elses pattern should get the permission of the designer before using it in a class but what about say posting a picture on this web site. Would I have to get the designers written permission? Would just naming her book, much like a footnote in a thesis, satify any legal obligation?

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmd36
    Wait until you get into machine embroidery.....copyrights up the kazoo. They monitor what is selling on ebay and craig's list and will come after you if you innocently buy a design. Luckily many are extremely generous with free designs. Buyer beware.
    Look into shareware and boycott those designers.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by hobo2000
    It is exactly like music. Everytime a record is played on TV or radio that station pays ASCAP or BMI money for playing that music. That's why its illegal for kids to download from underground sites for free and listen and pass on music because the people who made the recordings are being cheated out of their just payment. The designers make their money by charging us a price to USE their pattern for our own quilts. It is illegal for me to give you a copy of the pattern or make a quilt from the pattern to sell. That is making money off someone else's Intellectual Property. However, if I design a quilt and it uses a new block I came up with plus some old timy blocks, I can get a copyright on the entire design. No one really "gives" you a copyright. You go on line fill out the form and submit it with your money and you have your copyright.
    It's also why the music industry is loosing money. People are getting irritated and not buying into it. Indie people are actually offering up their music for free, so that their name will get out there.

    One of the authors I read, had the music Industry email her saying she could not post her play list, without their permission and paying them some money, as they represent the music unions.

    So now she puts up individual links once she has the permission of the musicians, who enjoy the publicity and it gets them revenue instead of the industry.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deborah12687
    laws need to be revamped so people can understand them with out consulting with lawyers to figure it out.
    Boy do I agree with this!!
    But this is the one thing in this whole thread of discussion that you can be 100% sure will Never happen.
    Lawyers draw up laws to put themselves out of business?? Hmmmm.....

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by hobo2000
    It is exactly like music. Everytime a record is played on TV or radio that station pays ASCAP or BMI money for playing that music. That's why its illegal for kids to download from underground sites for free and listen and pass on music because the people who made the recordings are being cheated out of their just payment. The designers make their money by charging us a price to USE their pattern for our own quilts. It is illegal for me to give you a copy of the pattern or make a quilt from the pattern to sell. That is making money off someone else's Intellectual Property. However, if I design a quilt and it uses a new block I came up with plus some old timy blocks, I can get a copyright on the entire design. No one really "gives" you a copyright. You go on line fill out the form and submit it with your money and you have your copyright.
    Actually, when the whole Napster and related issues came up, special dedicated laws were enacted to protect music.
    Those laws do not bleed over into other fields automatically.
    Again, a lot of hashing for lawyers.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emma S
    Sorry guys. Read all of the posts and the articles sited still can't figure it out. I understand why a teacher using someone elses pattern should get the permission of the designer before using it in a class but what about say posting a picture on this web site. Would I have to get the designers written permission? Would just naming her book, much like a footnote in a thesis, satify any legal obligation?
    Your picture of your quilt is your property, as is your quilt.

  16. #66
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    When I see that copyright statement in any magazine I will drop my subscription and go back to my own library of books and do as I please. When the original maker of the quilt sells it to a magazine they have made their money. When the quilt magazine sells the copy, they have made their money. If I am not allowed to sell anything I make from their patterns I will not be paying for the expensive subscriptions any more. I think the subscriptions are ridiculously expensive anyway considering that you only get 5-6 copies a year and most of them do not have anything in them that I want to make anyway.

  17. #67
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    Perhaps a moral guideline to follow would be:

    if I had designed this quilt and/or created the pattern/directions for it - how would I feel about others using it "for free"?

  18. #68
    JJs
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    Quote Originally Posted by bearisgray
    Perhaps a moral guideline to follow would be:

    if I had designed this quilt and/or created the pattern/directions for it - how would I feel about others using it "for free"?
    it ain't FREE IF YOU PAY FOR IT.
    you pay for the patterns in the magazine when you PAY FOR THE MAGAZINE
    You aren't stealing anything. If the designers and the quilt mags consider it stealing if you use the pattern in the magazine and then sell YOUR quilt or show YOUR quilt then they should quit putting the patterns in the magazines and books and on the internet...

  19. #69
    Super Member mom-6's Avatar
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    I thought the whole idea of creating something beautiful was for the enjoyment of all who see it.

    Also I was taught as a child that "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery".

    It appears some were taught differently???

    Somehow some seem to have lost the "others-centered" roots that many of us grew up with and replaced that attitude with "It's mine, all mine, only mine."

  20. #70
    tooMuchFabric's Avatar
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    At a certain level it becomes about the dollar, not about the quilt.
    I don't subscribe either.

  21. #71
    Super Member Rosyhf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Cal Quilt Girl
    Many valid points above !!
    Let me throw a rock in the pot !! Have paid for internet services, and it seems like very little is private if on line, Many patterns are years old, the work and effort should count for something, are painters under the same CR for painting a blade of grass.

    OK out my spoon comes.
    I am also a folk artist. I have published a few patterns in the trade mags. I got paid well for these patterns. I could less who makes and sells from my pattern, that is the reason I put it in a mag to begin with. I think a lot of copyright is misunderstood. In the painting world. Once you purchase a pattern or a book, the copyright states that you can make or paint for profit or whatever, you just can't sell or copy the orginal pattern to sell or give away.

    I think Magazines copyright the material in the mag for the express purpose that they may not be massed produced by some company or the patterns copied and sold. I don't think they mean that you can't make to selll the product or give away.

  22. #72
    Super Member Rosyhf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conniequilts
    This will tick lots of people off I am sure (and I apologize ahead of time).

    Can any of you, who have copyrighted your patterns, prove you have NOT ever repeated a naturally created pattern from someone back in the 1800's? Before copyright laws existed?

    If you can't, then how can you copyright it, how can you call it original?. It is not someone else's work and you are "stealing" credit from them?

    Are you calling it original because you took "their" original blocks and placed them in a differnt order?

    I don't know, I'm sure someone is now angry with me and wants to argue and I apologize, but am thinking nothing is original cuz it all started WAY BACK WHEN.

    Just my right or wrong thoughts again, don't hate me :(

    You're entitled to say as much as anybody here. It is good to put things on the table and clear them up if we don't understand and nobody should get mad..this is how we learn.

  23. #73
    Super Member Rosyhf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emma S
    Sorry guys. Read all of the posts and the articles sited still can't figure it out. I understand why a teacher using someone elses pattern should get the permission of the designer before using it in a class but what about say posting a picture on this web site. Would I have to get the designers written permission? Would just naming her book, much like a footnote in a thesis, satify any legal obligation?
    I used to teach. If I was using somebody's book for the pattern, I required everyone to purchase the pattern or the book and that is the right way to do it. When I make quilts and post them to my blog. I somethines mention the designer and put a link for the book or pattern...believe me, the designer loves it. I dont' maind giving anybody credit for their work.

  24. #74
    Super Member Rosyhf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lclang
    When I see that copyright statement in any magazine I will drop my subscription and go back to my own library of books and do as I please. When the original maker of the quilt sells it to a magazine they have made their money. When the quilt magazine sells the copy, they have made their money. If I am not allowed to sell anything I make from their patterns I will not be paying for the expensive subscriptions any more. I think the subscriptions are ridiculously expensive anyway considering that you only get 5-6 copies a year and most of them do not have anything in them that I want to make anyway.
    Now if you all had listened to me in the first place and got EQ hahahhaha...you could take a block and make it look a hundred different ways....I have enough books and I do love my books but most of the time I spen with BB and EQ...

  25. #75
    Power Poster BellaBoo's Avatar
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    There has not been one quilt pattern I have wanted that I can't find how to make it online. The instructions how to make a quilt pattern are not copyrighted. If you want to buy a pattern the designer thinks is so fantastic all she wants you to do is buy the pattern not actually use it, then buy it. Search out tutorials, you tube, blogs, and find the how to make it free.

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