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Thread: Not to keep stirring the pot, but....

  1. #151
    Super Member Deborah12687's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooMuchFabric
    Quote Originally Posted by amandasgramma
    She said "I know, but the person reading this may not know it's a worthless statement".......
    A person's work is their own by assumption. They do not even have to make the statement.
    On the other hand, PROVING it in a court would mean having the legal registration paperwork to back up the claim.
    So Yes it's true the website's contents are copyrighted, but in a contest over it, proof might be costly and hard to do.
    .
    There is one way that yes you can proove it by going to a notery and have your documents stamped before you put the pattern out. It dates it and it is the proof of ownership that it is your design and it becomes a matter of law. Once stamped it can't be changed for any reason.

  2. #152
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    Okay, what about this: Someone brings you a quilt pattern and contracts to pay to make it for them, is this a violation of the copyright? If so, it would mean no one could make a quilt for someone else for payment for their time. Kind of a scary thought.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjdemir
    Okay, what about this: Someone brings you a quilt pattern and contracts to pay to make it for them, is this a violation of the copyright? .
    I wouldn't think so. Afterall, the quilt is being made from a righteously purchased pattern.
    The person who bought the pattern will own the quilt.
    The person making the quilt will not own the quilt nor the pattern.

  4. #154
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    This is not so when you only buy the license to use a product (software is another example of the same thing). When you buy MS's Office software then you don't own the software. You have bought only the license to use it.
    And yes, does MS ever restrict usage....

    Just don't buy any patterns sold with such restrictions. There are a gazillion ways to put commonly used quilting elements together your way (the only right way).

    The emphasis is on "commonly used" and "commonly available".

    You can't have (and won't get) copyrights on commonly available patterns. Period. For a design to be protected it must be NEW AND UNIQUE.

    The 'day and night pattern' on the quilters cache site for example is neither new nor unique. Don't worry about using it the way you see fit.

    Why would anybody pay good money for patterns (or the license to use a pattern for personal use only) that your own head can produce for you by the dozens in an hour?

  5. #155
    JJs
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    The problem with using software as an example is the fact that neither Microsoft nor any other company makes you ask permission to send off a letter that you wrote with their office program. You can even write the next Great American Novel and send it off to be published and Microsoft doesn't care a whit about it. All they want to know is, did you buy the program legally and did you make a copy of the program to pass around.

    In fact, that's all that EQ cares about also - buy the program legally and don't pass it out (which you can't do anyway because of the way the programming is written)

  6. #156
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    Exactly. I don't question that notion.

    It is the designers who use the same model for their copyright restrictions regardless the fact that the use of the license reproduces their product. They should realize that such a restriction renders their product (the pattern) almost useless.

    There are in fact many programs similar to MS Office using the same programming language. You just can't copy the MS Office program and sell it or use more than one copy of it at a time.

    I should have said that very clearly:
    The notion that a "designer" claims copyrights on Greatgrannie's designs is ridiculous.
    It won't stand up in court either.

  7. #157
    Super Member amandasgramma's Avatar
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    Okay -- to keep this going. I have the June 2010 issue of Quilter's World in front of me. Page 4 says "This publication may not be reproduced in part or in whole without written permission from the publisher".......I take this to mean you can't reproduce the MAGAZINE....nothing about the quilts. But I'm going to write their customer service and CLARIFY that we can produce and SELL quilts from their patterns....while NOT selling the patterns.

    I challenge you all, if you have magazines that say otherwise, WRITE the publisher and ask them to clarify.....If they respond that we can't sell the quilts, inform them we will NOT be buying their magazines and that you're on a forum with 1000s of quilters and will be passing the info on.....does this sound good?

  8. #158
    tooMuchFabric's Avatar
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    Excellent.

  9. #159
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    That will work.

    We don't need their magazines. This site is so much more fun. I get all the inspiration I need from this site alone.

    BTW, some excellent designers publish their patterns for use without any restrictions. I try to buy their fabric as often as possible. Our money is the ticket. That's how we establish some honesty and clarity in this great craft.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ursula
    some excellent designers publish their patterns for use without any restrictions. I try to buy their fabric as often as possible. Our money is the ticket.
    We need to compile a list of these folks as well as writing to the magazines.

    Support those who support us, I say.
    .

  11. #161
    Junior Member krisgray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bearisgray
    There are some patterns and designs that appear to me to be truly original.

    Where things get stuck in my craw is when someone takes old stand by blocks - like 9-patch, shoo-fly, variable star, rail fence - and then claims a copyright for the pattern.
    here, here!

    I'm not a show quilter so I don't pay much attention to the copyright notice. When our local guild has a show they ask that we state the pattern name/source on our labels.

    I do what I want to do and part of the fun for me is to get out my graph paper (not EQ) and plan out a top.

  12. #162
    Super Member LindaR's Avatar
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    I guess I've been more sensitive to this subject lately but on another site I noticed a embroidery design to download free that I had paid for LOL, how many of the 100 tie bags we see made on this site were the pattern bought? I guess I'm just going to forget the whole thing and do what I've always done...

  13. #163
    Super Member Deborah12687's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amandasgramma
    Okay -- to keep this going. I have the June 2010 issue of Quilter's World in front of me. Page 4 says "This publication may not be reproduced in part or in whole without written permission from the publisher".......I take this to mean you can't reproduce the MAGAZINE....nothing about the quilts. But I'm going to write their customer service and CLARIFY that we can produce and SELL quilts from their patterns....while NOT selling the patterns.

    I challenge you all, if you have magazines that say otherwise, WRITE the publisher and ask them to clarify.....If they respond that we can't sell the quilts, inform them we will NOT be buying their magazines and that you're on a forum with 1000s of quilters and will be passing the info on.....does this sound good?
    This is a great idea you came up with. It is a way to get things clarified and if we do this it will force them to change there silly petty ways.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by amandasgramma
    If they respond that we can't sell the quilts, inform them ...that you're on a forum with 1000s of quilters and will be passing the info on.....does this sound good?
    the advice to write to publishers for a clarification of their policy is good advice.

    you may not, however, mention this board or try to use us leverage. that is not one of our functions.

  15. #165
    Super Member amandasgramma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatriceJ
    Quote Originally Posted by amandasgramma
    If they respond that we can't sell the quilts, inform them ...that you're on a forum with 1000s of quilters and will be passing the info on.....does this sound good?
    the advice to write to publishers for a clarification of their policy is good advice.

    you may not, however, mention this board or try to use us leverage. that is not one of our functions.
    I wouldn't/didn't give the name of this forum...I just said "forum"...there are lots of them out there.

  16. #166
    Super Member roseOfsharon's Avatar
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    Well, I believe in clarification. I do feel it is being over worried for the most part. If it is mainly the copying of patterns and selling them to others, we all know we should not do that. Sharing my *bought* pattern with another is another thing, acknowledging the creator of the pattern on the label is one way to end fears of misrepresentation.
    Free blocks and patterns are available online for the most part and creating your own "style" is an option and for the most part seems to be the norm here.

    Once some clarification is made, by the publishers as to what we can and cannot do, will we know to boycott certain magazines or to use their "free" patterns within. It will be interesting to see what they have to say on the subject.

  17. #167
    Junior Member crazicorn's Avatar
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    [quote=PatriceJ]
    Quote Originally Posted by cafegold2

    there is no doubt, however, that they can copyright the patterns and instructions they write and illustrate showing us how to make those quilts.
    Keywords here are "patterns" "instructions", I think.

  18. #168
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    Not so fast.
    Not everything anybody publishes has copyrights attached to it.
    I can e.g. in my own words write about the fun I had making my first quilt (doing it three times over), explaining how to do it right after losing that crazy idea that it is easy as pie and a full-sized quilt can be done in a day.
    I can write how I finally learned to make Ohio stars without mangling the corners.

    I just cannot go ahead and take somebody else's report on his/her experience and reproduce it as my own. Who would want to do it anyway.

    If you want to write your own quilting instructions in your own words the way you think is right, then go ahead. Doing it does not infringe on anybody's rights, copyrights or any other rights.

    The operative words are "reproducing somebody else's UNIQUE ideas" and "NOT COMMONLY KNOWN".

    There is no legal way of claiming copyrights or patent rights on COMMONLY KNOWN or COMMONLY AVAILABLE patterns.

    That's it.

    If you can prove that the patterns/blocks you use have been used for decades by thousands of quilters you will be fine. Nobody will find a lawyer who will take you to court for it. They know that they will lose every time.

    You cannot claim rights on commonly known facts, products or procedures. (Think about it. This would be rights based on a craft that has developed in the public domain.)

    Just don't reproduce the entire quilt stitch by stitch and sell it by the dozens. Always remember. The indignated designer can only sue you for the DAMAGES he can prove. (Nobody goes to jail for copyright infringement and you pay punitive damages only if somebody can prove bad intent.)

    Let's all go have fun quilting.

    Leave the designers dreaming about pie in the sky (like making money on a quilt design that has been around in many variations since the Civil War.) Meanwhile, you create something unique and beautiful the way people have done for centuries.

  19. #169
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    Interestingly enough, the quilt made by Jane A. Stickle - completed during the civil war - seems to be a money maker for the author of the Dear Jane book, Brenda Manges Papadakis.

  20. #170
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    Only because people scare easily.

  21. #171

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    To add to all of this discussion: what about resale shops and garage sales selling either quilts themselves, or the patterns or CDs that probably have a copyright on them somewhere. And Goodwill and other thrift shops don't hesitate in selling these things. Who is going to police all these different ways that these copyrighted products are used or abused?

  22. #172
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    I was interested in knowing what the original copyright restrictions on instructions for the Jane A Stickle Quilt actually are. Here is the reprint from their authorized website: This is a quote:

    "Dear Jane is a registered trademark from the book
    "Dear Jane, The Two Hundred Twenty-Five Patterns from the 1863 Jane A. Stickle Quilt" by Brenda M. Papadakis.

    Sharon's Dear Jane ®Pages 1999-2005


    Permission is granted for use by Dear Janers to use on his/her personal computer, website, or for use in a Dear Jane teaching class or guild function. If using for a class, please give credit to me, Sharon Mastbrook, as the creator of the Virtual Design Wall and various piecing tutorials.

    From: http://www.smastbrook.net/dj/dj.htm
    --------------------


    So if you are interested in doing very intricate work. They will give you instructions on how to do it free of charge. You can use it in a class as well and for guild purposes.

    You see, these people actually did some excellent work for all of us, collecting, explaining, publishing. And they do not seem too tight on copyrights either.

    Then there are the not authorized sites, hangers on, single-mindedly trying to make a buck on work, which they have not done.

  23. #173
    Community Manager PatriceJ's Avatar
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    ok. do you realize you just violated the website copyright by copying and pasting their words into your comment? :lol:

    that's why we use hyperlinks directly to the source. ;-)

  24. #174
    Bev
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    I wonder if it's the same with dress etc, patterns. If a person brings me a pattern, and I make it for her and charge her for making it, is that a violation??
    I can think of some other situations where a person might use a clothing or craft pattern and sell the items at a church bazaar or fair. What about something like that? Is that a criminal offense? 8-)

  25. #175
    Community Manager PatriceJ's Avatar
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    that question is already answered somewhere in here.

    or is it in the other topic going right now that also complains about copyrights?

    i'm getting mixed up. :lol:

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