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Thread: Not to keep stirring the pot, but....

  1. #176
    Bev
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatriceJ
    that question is already answered somewhere in here.

    or is it in the other topic going right now that also complains about copyrights?

    i'm getting mixed up. :lol:
    Hmmmm ... I didn't see it here, but I may have jumped over some.
    Anyhow, do you remember what the answer was??

    8-)

  2. #177
    Super Member purplefiend's Avatar
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    that really makes me mad, the patterns were public domain and then somebody went and copyrighted them.

    Quote Originally Posted by bearisgray
    There are some patterns and designs that appear to me to be truly original.

    Where things get stuck in my craw is when someone takes old stand by blocks - like 9-patch, shoo-fly, variable star, rail fence - and then claims a copyright for the pattern.

  3. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by bearisgray
    Interestingly enough, the quilt made by Jane A. Stickle - completed during the civil war - seems to be a money maker for the author of the Dear Jane book, Brenda Manges Papadakis.
    People find the original quilt charming, and Papadakis wrote down some instructions how to make those squares.
    Her instructions are copyrighted.
    Anyone could probably look at the original quilt and reproduce fairly accurately the patches that make up the quilt, but it's a lot of work,
    and buying someone's already-developed instructions is waaay easier than making it all up from scratch.

  4. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatriceJ
    ok. do you realize you just violated the website copyright by copying and pasting their words into your comment? :lol:

    that's why we use hyperlinks directly to the source. ;-)
    Probably not. There is a "fair usage" element to the law, which allows for properly credited small quotings for the purpose of critique and review.
    This quoting was so short that it gives away nothing of the patterns in the book, and is properly quoted.
    It's legal.
    .

  5. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by purplefiend
    that really makes me mad, the patterns were public domain and then somebody went and copyrighted them.
    Possibly, because techniques and methods of making quilts have changed so much over the decades,
    it is their new "way" of making the blocks,
    ie using rotary techniques and shortcuts for HST and the like,
    that are what they can copyright, not the geometric design of the block.

  6. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooMuchFabric
    Quote Originally Posted by bearisgray
    Interestingly enough, the quilt made by Jane A. Stickle - completed during the civil war - seems to be a money maker for the author of the Dear Jane book, Brenda Manges Papadakis.
    People find the original quilt charming, and Papadakis wrote down some instructions how to make those squares.
    Her instructions are copyrighted.
    Anyone could probably look at the original quilt and reproduce fairly accurately the patches that make up the quilt, but it's a lot of work,
    and buying someone's already-developed instructions is waaay easier than making it all up from scratch.
    The book does not give any specific instructions for how to make an individual block. There are some general piecing instructions at the beginning of the book - wash the fabric, cut accurately, check your seam allowances and finished block size - sort of thing.

    BMP said (in the book) that she drafted the blocks "in the manner of . . . " which I suppose would give her some leeway in how accurately drawn they actually are.

    I understand that the software may be "better" - and some of the blocks more closely resemble the ones that Jane made than the drawings in the Dear Jane book.

  7. #182
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    No I haven't violated any copyrights.
    It is still allowed to quote others.

    It seems that paranoia has spread beyond reasonable bounds. Yes, you can quote others. You just need to say so.

  8. #183
    Community Manager PatriceJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ursula
    No I haven't violated any copyrights.
    It is still allowed to quote others.

    It seems that paranoia has spread beyond reasonable bounds. Yes, you can quote others. You just need to say so.
    we will always choose the most cautious policies and courses of action in order to protect this board and our members.

    that is neither paranoia nor unreasonable. it's just common sense.

    please don't start a whole new argument about that.

  9. #184
    Bev
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    [quote/]I am right on quoting others, and that is that! [quote/]

    She IS right about quoting others. As long as she is quoting truthfully, there is no way she can be penalized for it.
    Here I am quoting her, and what's wrong with that? 8-)

  10. #185
    Super Member Annya's Avatar
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    What I do is to take certain things from several patterns and put them into one block or quilt. Mostly they are applique flowers birds etc.

  11. #186
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    I totally agree--the quilting magazines will be the ones to pay the price---I buy them to get ideas, and although I rarely sell a finished quilt,since it is in a published magazine, the decision should be mine--the mag paid the creator for their design, and the mag gets their money from the sale of the magazine---if you don't want people to make quilts from your design, then don't publish it. We went through this a few years back with doll and animal patterns which were being bought and made to sell at craft shows--some companies/designers stated that you had to have permission to make and sell them from their pattern and some only stated that they could not be mass produced(numbers would be in the hundreds) Guess which companie/designers are no longer in business. As for quilt shows, all of us have our own color combinations, and special touches we do to every quilt we make so unless you make it exactly like the pattern in every color and detail, I do not think they have the right to go after you. Besides,most patterns have some sort of "public domain pattern" in them somewhere. I quit McCalls over a year ago--I still do get McCalls Quick Quilts and the new Quick Quilts magazine because the quilts are fast and simple. You can have the rest.

  12. #187
    Super Member Annya's Avatar
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    I would like to know that if I post a pattern for a new swimming bag on my now new site friendshipofcats, I designed the idea and borrowed an applique for one of the pockets, that I am breach of copyright even if I say that the applique belongs to some one else.

  13. #188
    Super Member LindaR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bearisgray
    Interestingly enough, the quilt made by Jane A. Stickle - completed during the civil war - seems to be a money maker for the author of the Dear Jane book, Brenda Manges Papadakis.
    this crossed my mind too.... :roll:

  14. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by BellaBoo
    There has not been one quilt pattern I have wanted that I can't find how to make it online. The instructions how to make a quilt pattern are not copyrighted. If you want to buy a pattern the designer thinks is so fantastic all she wants you to do is buy the pattern not actually use it, then buy it. Search out tutorials, you tube, blogs, and find the how to make it free.
    I subscribe, but am sick of seeing traditional quilts presented as "new" because they are pushing some designer's new fabric line. Look at the line drawing of the assembled blocks,, and you see what it really is, or... isn't!!

  15. #190
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    I have not used a quilt pattern yet, so far most of mine are my own design, but if I buy a pattern, It is mine to do with what I want, as long as I do not copy and give the pattern away. They have sold the pattern, there for they can not tell you how to use the pattern or tell you you can't sale what you make. The copy right ends when the pattern is bought. someone cant put a copy right on your clothes, and then turn around and tell you how to wear them. the copy right is there until it is sold. God bless.

  16. #191
    lgc
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conniequilts
    I don't generally weigh in on topics like this but it has been consistent and confusing.

    This is my view point (right or wrong) - I have paid for the pattern so what I make with it is my business and what I do with it after that is my business.

    I understand I should not re-sell the pattern and especially not for a profit. I also have no problem with respecting not copying it and sharing it with others.

    I strongly believe their control over a quilt should END with the purchasing of the pattern.

    Just my thoughts ;)
    I agree with most of this and would like to add...

    Give credit were credit is due. Add the designers name to your label even if it is as "inspired by".

  17. #192
    Super Member Deb watkins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conniequilts
    This will tick lots of people off I am sure (and I apologize ahead of time).

    Can any of you, who have copyrighted your patterns, prove you have NOT ever repeated a naturally created pattern from someone back in the 1800's? Before copyright laws existed?

    If you can't, then how can you copyright it, how can you call it original?. It is not someone else's work and you are "stealing" credit from them?

    Are you calling it original because you took "their" original blocks and placed them in a differnt order?

    I don't know, I'm sure someone is now angry with me and wants to argue and I apologize, but am thinking nothing is original cuz it all started WAY BACK WHEN.

    Just my right or wrong thoughts again, don't hate me :(
    This has been a topic thoroughly discussed, and yet, I have to admit that I just don't get it either. I do understand the concept of original design, and wanting to protect that, but if one really thinks about the quilts and designs that have been made over the years and years and years, just how many originals ways can you put squares, triangles, rectanges and circles. Methods may be new, as our machines and accessories improve, and fabric choices certainly are creative. Some times the more I read about this, the more confused I become. I have purchased patterns, but like so many others, I do have the ability to look at a pattern and figure it out. Again, squares, rectangles, triangles and circles....

  18. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by quilterguy27
    Another Mag with the same statement about who can make what for who and who has control over what you make. I've heard so many of you say you are cancelling your subscription of McCalls because of the copyright statement in the front of the magazine. Well, I just got my issue of Quilter's Home mag and it has the same statement in it. I'm only due one more issue and I won't be renewing my subscription to this mag or any other. I will be checking from now on. Thanks for the other thread about this topic! I just went and Googled Creative Crafts Group, LLC and Quilter's Home is under the same umbrella as McCalls as well as a bunch of other magazines, so if anyone else is thinking of discontinuing your subscription or for any other reason you might want to check them out, you can find out who has this statement in their magazine. Just my little rant. Thanks for listening!
    I can't believe the comments I'm reading about McCalls and other magazines. Do you stop to realize that these magazines are a boone to our hobby's? Take Quilter's word for instance: They not only publish the picture, but include the pattern, measurements, material required. As a published writer, I am very well aware of Copyright restrictions. Shame on all of you for not doing your homework. A pattern, etc can be used with changes and it does not infringe on even the US Copywrite regulations.

  19. #194
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    You guys really ought to get the scoop from a copyright attorney. It doesn't matter how you feel on the topic. You have to obey the laws. BTW, anything printed prior to 1923 is copyright free. This I know. Also changing a pattern does not make it copyright free. There are plenty of copyright free books we can use to develop our own patterns. Dover makes a lot of these. Clip art can also be copyright free. HIH

  20. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ursula
    This is not so when you only buy the license to use a product (software is another example of the same thing). When you buy MS's Office software then you don't own the software. You have bought only the license to use it.
    And yes, does MS ever restrict usage....

    Just don't buy any patterns sold with such restrictions. There are a gazillion ways to put commonly used quilting elements together your way (the only right way).

    The emphasis is on "commonly used" and "commonly available".

    You can't have (and won't get) copyrights on commonly available patterns. Period. For a design to be protected it must be NEW AND UNIQUE.

    The 'day and night pattern' on the quilters cache site for example is neither new nor unique. Don't worry about using it the way you see fit.

    Why would anybody pay good money for patterns (or the license to use a pattern for personal use only) that your own head can produce for you by the dozens in an hour?
    That's why there are software designers who put their stuff in shareware.

    Open Office is one. It can do most that MS stuff can do and it's free. I believe Adobe PDF is another.

  21. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatriceJ
    ok. do you realize you just violated the website copyright by copying and pasting their words into your comment? :lol:

    that's why we use hyperlinks directly to the source. ;-)
    No, that wasn't a copyright violation. You are allowed to quote if you source the quote. You can't however copy the entire book.

  22. #197
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    this conversation is typical of nearly every other conversation we've had about copyrights.

    useful, easily understood and accurate information has been provided by several members. unfortunately it's lost in the pages of opinion and protest. :lol:

    let's catch up.

    1. nobody can slap a copyright on blocks already in the public domain.
    2. under most circumstances, they can't slap a copyright on quilt layouts designed using only blocks from the public domain.
    3. the instructions and illustrations are copyright protected. the owner of the copyrights can tell us to not copy and distribute them without their permission.
    4. copyright protection does not extend to the items made from the patterns. some designers believe they do, but they are mistaken.

    the legal issues and principles are:
    -the designer/author/creator/owner right to retain her identity as the creator of that pattern (the instructions and illustrations).
    -the designer/author/creator/owner right to realize income or benefit.
    -the customer's obligation to make reasonable use of the protected pattern. making and selling a bazillion quilts from another designer's pattern would most likely not be considered reasonable use. putting one into a show and claiming to have designed it yourself would most likely not be considered reasonable use. giving one or a few of the quilts to friends and family would most likely be considered reasonable use. even selling a few would most likely be considered reasonable use - especially if you gave the designer/author/creator the credit she deserves.

    politicians, lawyers, and consumers make the laws seem a lot more complicated than they really are or need to be.

    put yourself in the designer's shoes. the right thing should then be obvious.

    and please take note of an important fact: when a designer is published in a magazine, she has quite often been required to transfer ownership of the copyrights to the publisher. she loses control, so we should probably not blame her if we don't like what the publisher does.

  23. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by quilterguy27
    Another Mag with the same statement about who can make what for who and who has control over what you make. I've heard so many of you say you are cancelling your subscription of McCalls because of the copyright statement in the front of the magazine. Well, I just got my issue of Quilter's Home mag and it has the same statement in it. I'm only due one more issue and I won't be renewing my subscription to this mag or any other. I will be checking from now on. Thanks for the other thread about this topic! I just went and Googled Creative Crafts Group, LLC and Quilter's Home is under the same umbrella as McCalls as well as a bunch of other magazines, so if anyone else is thinking of discontinuing your subscription or for any other reason you might want to check them out, you can find out who has this statement in their magazine. Just my little rant. Thanks for listening!
    "now this is original, can anybody say it is not my design?"
    Attached Images Attached Images

  24. #199
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    Thanks so much PatriceJ!!!!
    I now have a much more clear view of how it all works. It's by no means your fault, but why the heck hasn't someone made it this concise before now. I thought I understood it all before, but now I really got it. Makes total sense to me. Thanks so much for putting it into plain english for us to grasp the gist of it. Now we should all "HAVE IT". Put it to bed now?

    Can I quote you on this Patrice?

  25. #200
    Community Manager PatriceJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quilterguy27
    Thanks so much PatriceJ!!!!
    I now have a much more clear view of how it all works. It's by no means your fault, but why the heck hasn't someone made it this concise before now. I thought I understood it all before, but now I really got it. Makes total sense to me. Thanks so much for putting it into plain english for us to grasp the gist of it. Now we should all "HAVE IT". Put it to bed now?

    Can I quote you on this Patrice?

    many members have boiled it down many times. the explanations get buried within minutes. :lol:

    i would rather you didn't quote me. i am not a lawyer. i am not a representative of the government office of any country.

    i've just spent 5 minutes googling the topic and have found an article that indicates i might be wrong in believing we can't sell things made from copyright (cr) protected patterns without permission from the owner of the cr.

    this is the only area i consider at all fuzzy. but here's why i have never worried about that and would never worry about that: i don't want use other people's patterns for anything i might think about selling someday. i design my own and charge "extra" for the fact that it's one of a kind.

    http://www.tabberone.com/

    http://www.straw.com/equilters/libra...copyright.html

    http://www.quiltingbusiness.com/quilting-copyright.htm

    http://www.quilt.com/FAQS/CopyrightFAQ.html

    http://www.getcreativeshow.com/Craft...copyrights.htm

    http://www.paulrapp.com/display_article.php?id=6

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