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Thread: Not to keep stirring the pot, but....

  1. #201
    Super Member quilterguy27's Avatar
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    OK, I won't quote you. I've read most, if not all of these sites and I get lost in the legal aspect of it all. I personally have never violated the copyright of any quilt I've made that I'm aware of. I only make for family and freinds and charity. I've never shown a quilt or sold one. I just want to be informed "just in case". Any pattern I have is just used as a "reference" or "inspiration". I've never followed a pattern completely and probably never will. Anyway, I will go back and re-read those sites and hopefully get a better, more clear understanding. I think they try to confuse us on purpose.

  2. #202
    Community Manager PatriceJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quilterguy27
    I think they try to confuse us on purpose.
    you may be right. :lol:

  3. #203
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    One thought I just had on this subject. A lot of guilds have library's for the members to use. This, I believe, does infringe on copyrights. I wonder if that could be gotten around if guild funds would be used for purchasing books for their library? But, then, I guess I'm just opening another can of worms with this subject. Unless the members don't use the books to make items to sell, only for personal use. Aaargh, I guess this is a never ending subject.

  4. #204
    Super Member quilterguy27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alica1367
    One thought I just had on this subject. A lot of guilds have library's for the members to use. This, I believe, does infringe on copyrights. I wonder if that could be gotten around if guild funds would be used for purchasing books for their library? But, then, I guess I'm just opening another can of worms with this subject. Unless the members don't use the books to make items to sell, only for personal use. Aaargh, I guess this is a never ending subject.
    Hmmm, you just brought up another great point. I've looked at quilt mags and books in the public library. How can they get around it. I've seen many people check out a book or mag and make a copy of a pattern to use. Sounds like this is definitely against the law.

  5. #205
    Community Manager PatriceJ's Avatar
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    there must be a provision in the law that protects libraries because the practice is universal.

    i'm not a library, so i don't need to know. :lol:

  6. #206
    Super Member quilterguy27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatriceJ
    there must be a provision in the law that protects libraries because the practice is universal.

    i'm not a library, so i don't need to know. :lol:
    But it would be a good piece of information to know for those of us who do use the library. Does anybody know how libraries get around this or if they do. I would assume if you check a book or mag out of a library, you are able to use it just as if you purchased it yourself. They are there to use after all or are we just supposed to read them and not use them? Hmmm, maybe I will give my local public library a call and ask them. Will let you know what I find out.

  7. #207
    Community Manager PatriceJ's Avatar
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    go straight to the source for an accurate answer?

    what a radical concept!!! :lol:

  8. #208
    Bev
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    Quote Originally Posted by alica1367
    One thought I just had on this subject. A lot of guilds have library's for the members to use. This, I believe, does infringe on copyrights. I wonder if that could be gotten around if guild funds would be used for purchasing books for their library? But, then, I guess I'm just opening another can of worms with this subject. Unless the members don't use the books to make items to sell, only for personal use. Aaargh, I guess this is a never ending subject.
    This is a whole different ball game. Public libraries have oodles of quilt books. Do you think they have to worry about how people are going to use the patterns from the books?
    I can tell you for an absolute fact, they don't!
    And your tax dollars, just like everyone else's pay for these books.

    :?

  9. #209
    Super Member quilterguy27's Avatar
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    OK, I just got off the phone with the legal dept. of my local public library and he said under the Fair Use Act that yes, you can check out books, be it cookbooks, carpentry books or even quilting books and magazines and use the patterns from these for personal use. He didn't know, however, about photographing it and posting it online. He said he personally wouldn't recommend it so you don't end up a test case for a lawsuit, however, he said as long as you referenced the book/mag/designer/creator you should be ok. He was also unclear about "derivitives". He also recoommended contacting a copyright lawyer directly and get their take on it because there is just too much uncertianty regarding it and he didn't want to misdirect me.

    He also reiterated you cannot check a book or mag out of the library and make copies of it to share with friends or groups and that you can't mass produce any item from said book or magazine. This is a given, we've already established this.

    He also did not know any of the particulars regarding showing said quilts in fairs or competitions.

    This is from the legal dept. of my local public library. If you will notice, a lot of this is common sense information and some of it is "in his personal opinion". Again, his recommendation is to contact a copyright lawyer and consult them. It could be on a case by case basis. I may try this next. Will let you know what I find out.

  10. #210
    Super Member quilterguy27's Avatar
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    I never got a response from a lawyer, but I did Google it and basically I'd say we've covered the issue every way there is to cover it. Use common sense and if you are not sure, find out. If there are copyrights to something, just don't use it if you are afraid you are infringing, or get permission. Basically, I'd say that's it. If you are planning on selling a quilt, copying a pattern or showing it in a fair or show, contact the owner/publisher/designer/creator and get permission. Basically that's it in a nutshell.

  11. #211
    Super Member LindaR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quilterguy27
    I never got a response from a lawyer, but I did Google it and basically I'd say we've covered the issue every way there is to cover it. Use common sense and if you are not sure, find out. If there are copyrights to something, just don't use it if you are afraid you are infringing, or get permission. Basically, I'd say that's it. If you are planning on selling a quilt, copying a pattern or showing it in a fair or show, contact the owner/publisher/designer/creator and get permission. Basically that's it in a nutshell.
    that should end the subject nicely :thumbup:

  12. #212
    Super Member Deborah12687's Avatar
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    This was a very good discution that we had and it did clear up a lot things when it comes to using patterns and the copy right. I am sure that it helped a lot of the board members and other people who come on the board.

  13. #213
    Bev
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deborah12687
    This was a very good discution that we had and it did clear up a lot things when it comes to using patterns and the copy right. I am sure that it helped a lot of the board members and other people who come on the board.
    Amen to all of that!!
    Now on to pleasanter things. :lol:

  14. #214
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    I am so sick of reading about copy right infringement. I have read the whole US Copy Right law in the last few days. It seems since the beginning of the world there have been copy right infringement. God gave us the ability to use whatever talents he gave to us. That was from the beginning of time and even when Noah built the Arc. We use circles, squares, triangles, flower cut outs, plaids, solid colors, fabric of flowers, etc. You name it, it is our God given talent and the talent of those who designed these elements. If I could design a car, I had the talent, I don't but somebody did. Just think about that and don't worry about what we do for quilting and giving and using designs. If we were major manufacturers, we probably would need to worry. Think about that also. We are just a bunch of ladies enjoying ourselves and many are using it to supplement their income.

  15. #215
    Power Poster Sadiemae's Avatar
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    I just read that McCalls is doing another followup article in the October issue. Oh Boy!

  16. #216
    JJs
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    where they will say something to the effect: "we didn't mean public domain blocks, just the designs made using them" ...

    It all makes no sense, and the sooner everybody figures out that it makes no sense the better off they will be.

  17. #217
    Power Poster Sadiemae's Avatar
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    I think they have had so many people contact them that they are doing another article.

  18. #218
    Bev
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sadiemae
    I think they have had so many people contact them that they are doing another article.
    Of course they have. But that doesn't mean that they'll say anything that will satisfy every person on this board. My feeling is that we've heard (read) all of the different arguments, reasons, and possible solutions that exist! Now we should just make up our own, independent minds, about what we'll do. Not all of us are out there selling our wares and trying to avoid being caught by the copyright police. Most of us don't even need to waste time thinking about copyright since we won't be doing anything illegal anyhow. Just my opinion and I'm sticking with it. 8-) :mrgreen:

  19. #219
    Member jackie o.'s Avatar
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    I also subscribe to a few magazines, and have made quilts from the patterns that they showcase (with exact instructions, I might add). I understand if I buy a pattern at a shop or show that I should not make copies to give to anyone. But, what would happen if someone else bought the pattern and fabric, gave both to me, and paid me to make the quilt? Is that copyright infringement because I "sold" the quilt I made from the pattern he/she bought?

    Does anyone have experience being paid to make a quilt from a purchased or magazine pattern?

    I'm confused as to the message the magazines are sending to us.

  20. #220
    Power Poster Sadiemae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bev
    Quote Originally Posted by Sadiemae
    I think they have had so many people contact them that they are doing another article.
    Of course they have. But that doesn't mean that they'll say anything that will satisfy every person on this board. My feeling is that we've heard (read) all of the different arguments, reasons, and possible solutions that exist! Now we should just make up our own, independent minds, about what we'll do. Not all of us are out there selling our wares and trying to avoid being caught by the copyright police. Most of us don't even need to waste time thinking about copyright since we won't be doing anything illegal anyhow. Just my opinion and I'm sticking with it. 8-) :mrgreen:
    I know they won't say anythig different, I just thought it was interesting that they want to keep stirring the pot, so to speak.

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackie o.
    I also subscribe to a few magazines, and have made quilts from the patterns that they showcase (with exact instructions, I might add). I understand if I buy a pattern at a shop or show that I should not make copies to give to anyone. But, what would happen if someone else bought the pattern and fabric, gave both to me, and paid me to make the quilt? Is that copyright infringement because I "sold" the quilt I made from the pattern he/she bought?

    Does anyone have experience being paid to make a quilt from a purchased or magazine pattern?

    I'm confused as to the message the magazines are sending to us.
    No, as long as you don't make a copy of the pattern for your own use to make and or sell. You would need to buy the pattern for yourself, then you can make it and sell the finished product.

  22. #222
    Community Manager PatriceJ's Avatar
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    i read a very interesting interpretation of the law the other day. it has completely changed the way i look at the question of whether or not we can or should sell things made from protected patterns. i hope you'll read the whole thing for yourselves but the essence is that by making a quilt from the pattern you are, in fact, making a copy of the quilt upon which it's based. the only difference is the medium used to reproduce it.

    http://www.quiltingbusiness.com/quilting-copyright.htm

    that makes a great deal of sense to me from an ethical perspective. i have decided for myself that - even if i could prove in court that the interpretation is incorrect - i would be doing something ethically wrong in selling a copy of sombody else's work.

  23. #223
    Junior Member joyceinoh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpspeedy
    As a former member of a professional quilt association I can see both sides. With the advent of the longarmers the biggest problem I see is that their work is not being credited to them. I have a friend who is also a handquilter for hire. She did a quilt for a woman who won first place for "handquilting" at Paducha. The problem was she failed to tell the judges that it was not her work. When my friend objected the customer replied that she had paid her so the work belonged to her.
    ...
    From now on your friend should quilt her name or trademark sign, into the quilts she does by hand. The woman who bought it owns the quilt, but she cannot take credit for the quilting of another..

  24. #224
    Senior Member pinecone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sewgull
    Should we be careful when we purchase food. Might be in small print for "FAMILY USE ONLY". Would that be cheating if we had a guest for a meal?
    :lol: Watch those church food sales/dinners. The cook books with the recipes they use are copy righted, I think.

    piney

  25. #225
    Senior Member pinecone's Avatar
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