Mattee

I'm starting to feel like this is a "mine is bigger than yours" type contest.

Westom, I know you're trying to help, but unfortunately, I'm dumber than you (at least when it comes to electricity, and possibly at everything else). I can't follow most of what you've written. Would you be willing to help us by explaining very clearly - and I really mean "electricity for dummies" style, what you're talking about? Pretend you're explaining to a middle-schooler, for instance. I know I really want to understand what you're writing, but I'm lost.

IBQLTN

Sorry if this is a repeat, don't have time to read all the posts.

Tampa, FL is the 'lightning capitol of the world' or so I was told when I lived there. Unplugging your machine from an adequate surge protector takes away your protection.

Lightning can travel from the wall outlet to the plug on the floor then travel up the cord into your machine, iron, etc that way. I was advised that I should unplug my machine from where it plugs into the machine itself and lay the entire cord down on the floor, greatly reducing the risk of lightning traveling.

I was advised by the sewing machine manufacturer that you needed a surge protector at least equal to that for a computer. HOWEVER, not all surge protectors are alike. The one I have not only protects from power 'surges' it protects and 'beeps' when there is a power 'drain'. I have been advised by our IT techs at work that if this happens more than 1-2 times in a short span of time to TURN OFF THE COMPUTER, I do the same with my machine.

If you have an older home where the lights dim slightly (or a lot) when the A/C or an appliance or iron kick in, you need to be sure you have one that protects against the power drain. It can damage the computer in a sewing machine slowly and, if you're related to Mr. Murphy (Murphy's Law) the board will die 2 days after the warranty runs out!

Peggy
22 degrees in Florida is too cold!!!!

gale

Actually I think that's not recommended. It's called Daisy Chaining and from everything I've read it's best to not do that.

Also about Westom's cryptic posts. I think the bottom line is that you need an electrician to come out and install a whole-house surge protector on your electrical box. At least that's what I've gotten from the multiple threads and posts.

MoMoSews

ditto here!

Iamquilter

Thanks for your info. I had my iron plugged into the same strip as my machine and I was having problems with the machine dying down as I was sewing and could not figure out why. Even had the repair shop put in a new part in the foot feet. This morning my DH plugged another power strip into a different outlet and then plugged my iron in that and I am now sewing and no more sluggish sewing machine.
Bea

westom

Everyone learned about surge protectors in elementary school science. Just did not know it.

Lightning was striking wooden church steeples to connect to earth. Wood being an electrical conductor. But wood is not a good conductor. So 20,000 amps through wood creates a high voltage. 20,000 amps times a high voltage is high energy. Church steeple damaged.

Ben Franklin put a lightning rod atop the church steeple. But a lightning rod (just like any surge protector) does not do any protection. Either the lighting rod connects a direct lightning strike to earth. Or the lightning rod does nothing. 20,000 amps to earth via a protector is near zero volts. 20,000 amps times near zero volts is near zero energy. No damage.

A lightning rod is a protector. But it only works when connected to protection – earth ground. Same applies to every power strip or UPS protector. Either a surge protector connects short (ie 'less than 10 feet') to earth. Or a ‘high profit’ protector is promoted by hearsay, advertising, and scams.

Lightning strikes AC electric wires down the street. That means lightning is connected directly to every appliance inside the house. Which appliance is damaged? A surge selects an appliance that make the best connection to earth. And destroys that appliance.

Nothing stops surges. Nothing. Especially not power strip protectors or UPS. Especially not those APC or Tripplite protectors. If any surge (ie lightning) connects to earth before entering a building, then that surge is not inside hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Just like Franklin's lightning rods: protection is always about dissipating that energy harmlessly in earth.

As noted so many times previously: protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate. Either you connect a surge harmlessly to earth outside the building (one 'whole house' protector from responsible companies). Or that surge goes hunting for earth, destructively, inside the house. Only you make that choice.

Codes that define human safety do not address transistor safety. All homes already earth one AC wire only for human safety. Transistor safety means all other incoming wires connect to earth via a 'whole house' protector. AC electric is three wires. One connects to earth directly. Other two must be earthed via a ‘whole house’ protector. If any wire does not connect to earth, then surge protection does not exist.

As Franklin demonstrates in 1752 and as was taught in elementary school science; protection is always about earthing energy. No protector - not one ever - stops or absorbs surges. A myth posted by a majority is a near zero protector stopping surges. Either a protector connects within feet to single point earth ground. Or the only protection is that already inside every appliance.

Your only concern is the rare surge that overwhelms protection inside every appliance. That occurs typically once every seven years. Only a 'whole house' protector with the *always required* short connection to earth makes a destructive surge irrelevant. Does so for reasons that Ben Franklin demonstrated in 1752.

Describes is how surge protection is done everywhere that damage cannot happen. And describes are surge protectors that are only ‘profit ceneters’ - scams. Why do munitions dumps suffer direct lightning strikes without damage? Those dumps only use 'whole house' protection. Much of what we do today to protect electronics is how surge protection was done in munitions dumps even long before WWII. The science is that well proven.

One 'whole house' protector is a least expensive solution. And the only solution that actually does surge protection. You intercept lighting from striking your roof with an earthed lightning rod. And you intercept surges from damaging all appliances with an earth 'whole house' protector.

What is required to protect power strip protectors and UPS from damage? A 'whole house' protector. So that nobody knows a surge even existed. And so that even the protector is not damaged - for about $1 per protected appliance.

I can only hope that rephrasing it again and again eventually helps all to understand. Products from APC, Tripplite, Belkin, and Monster do not even claim such protection. Informed homeowners earth one 'whole house' protector from so many responsible companies such as Clipsal, Keison, General Electric, Leviton, Siemens, Square D, ABB, Polyphaser, Intermatic, and Cutler-Hammer - to name but a few.

A concept that defines all ineffective and effective protectors. That was understood and implemented even 100 years ago. Protection is always about where energy dissipates. Always – no exceptions. Most important, a protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

Either you learn a well proven concept. Or you do what a majority so often do - be scammed by miracle plug-in devices that do not even claim surge protection in spec numbers. Only you make that choice.

westom

Plug five protectors in a daisy chain (which is considered a human safety threat). Or plug all five (and the sewing machine) separately into six wall receptacles. You have not (electrically) changed the protection circuit. A protector does not sit between the machine and a surge. A sewing machine attached to one socket and the power strip protector plugged into an adjacent receptacle is an unchanged protection circuit (when the machine is plugged into the power strip).

Most do not know that due to lies and myths promoted by advertising. There is no magic surge blocker inside any surge protector. That magic is hyped by folklore and hearsay. A power strip manufacturer will not claim any surge protection in his numeric specs. He cannot lie in numeric specs. He can in advertising.

They are selling myths; not protection. A $3 power strip with some ten cent protector parts selling for $40 or $150 because so many believe advertising; not 100 years of well proven science. These protectors are promoted by the same subjective propaganda that also proved Saddam had WMDs. Advertising is that effective.

MarySews

I recentlysaw an article about serge protectors -- that get old and slow things down. It might be more of a problem with computers than sewing machines, but I am going to check mine.
I go to Staples and ask about things like ratings for electronics. they are excellent at the tech info and there is no pressure tobuy -- but often they are quite competitive with Walmart and there is a whole lot more support.

JAGSD

Then why pray tell would a ups protect a long arm during a surge AND IT HAS, when electricity was knocked out if "it does not work"?

Call me dumb, stupid or whatever but I am still not getting it....A whole house protector never heard of such a thing..

westom

What are you trying to protect from? A blackout is zero volts to a 120 volt appliance. Surges are thousands of volts to a 120 volt appliance.

UPS has only one function. To provide temporary and 'dirtiest' power during a blackout.

Now, view a 120 volt UPS output in battery backup mode. This one outputs 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts between square waves. Power so 'dirty' as to be harmful to power strip protectors and small electric motors. But all electronics already contain superior protection. Therefore 'dirtiest' power from a UPS is perfectly ideal.

Surges are not zero volts. Protection already inside every appliance means protection from most trivial surges – above 120 volts. But a rare surge (maybe once every seven years) can overwhelm that protection. No plug-in protector or UPS claims such protection. Informed consumers read specs; not advertising.

You demonstrated 'zero' protection by not posting spec numbers (because those numbers do not exist). No power strip stops a rare and destructive surge. Protector circuits inside a UPS are even tinier. Just enough above zero so that advertising can hype it as 100% protection. Read so many posts. Advertising spin works. How do you know it is a lie? The claim comes with no numbers. Real world numbers say why a power strip or UPS does ineffective protection.

Learn the difference between a blackout and a surge. Completely different. One is no voltage. The other is voltage so massive that even three miles of sky cannot stop it. Why do you think any protector will stop what three miles of sky could not? Because you are listening to advertising rather than learning from science and damning questions.

The most difficult part is where one admits to being scammed. It’s not easy.