Singer 500 keeps unthreading itself
06-04-2014, 06:39 PM
#12
Super Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Springfield Oregon
Posts: 1,481
Originally Posted by J Miller
Cricket,
I have an idea. The bobbin case cushion spring may be set with too wide a gap. This will allow the bobbin case to move around more than it should and will mess up the thread path and tensions. I have had to adjust this on both our 500s.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]477898[/ATTACH]
Check this picture out. There are four places that have adjustments and if they are out too much the bobbin case will jump it's track and your thread tension will not be right.
The specs are:
A: .012" to .016"
B: .012" to .016"
C: .015" to .023"
D: .025" to .045"
Check these measurements with a narrow gap gauge. C is a diagonal measurement between the little finger and the bobbin hook.
If they are out of spec, PM me your email and I'll send you images of the service manual where it has instructions on how to adjust things.
It's probably copy writed and if so the moderators will delete it if I post it here.
Joe
I have an idea. The bobbin case cushion spring may be set with too wide a gap. This will allow the bobbin case to move around more than it should and will mess up the thread path and tensions. I have had to adjust this on both our 500s.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]477898[/ATTACH]
Check this picture out. There are four places that have adjustments and if they are out too much the bobbin case will jump it's track and your thread tension will not be right.
The specs are:
A: .012" to .016"
B: .012" to .016"
C: .015" to .023"
D: .025" to .045"
Check these measurements with a narrow gap gauge. C is a diagonal measurement between the little finger and the bobbin hook.
If they are out of spec, PM me your email and I'll send you images of the service manual where it has instructions on how to adjust things.
It's probably copy writed and if so the moderators will delete it if I post it here.
Joe
06-04-2014, 08:19 PM
#13
Super Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Not Here
Posts: 3,817
Originally Posted by cricket_iscute
The tension is set at 1.5, where it has been set all along and has had no problems.
I'm going through five layers of cotton (foundation piecing) and one layer of batting when the thread snaps. This machine should be able to handle this. My Singer 401 can, and they are very much alike.
It's my first time using the glue. Yes, the edges could be ragged. I skipped (pressing) that step because the iron was downstairs and my knees objected. I was careful not to use too much glue. I did smooth most of it out with a toothpick.
The thread is shredding, but not a lot.
Originally Posted by cricket_iscute
The first time I went back to sew with it, it made a loud noise and the spool almost jumped off the spool pin. I removed the quilt from the machine and opened the bobbin area. I found a mess, including that the bobbin assembly had jumped out of it's position.
It might be a good idea now anyway with the bent needle and displaced bobbin case. There may be a new burr.
Things were fine until I tried to sew fast. Then every time, the thread frayed and snapped. I have noticed that this machine will do exactly that when I sew fast no matter what thread or needle I use. I am beginning to think that the problem is the sewing speed, or when the motor first starts. Does anyone know why this is happening?
When the machine runs faster though, like anything - the more motion, the bigger a deal everything is. Something just a little out may be a big deal at higher speed.
06-08-2014, 07:00 PM
#14
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 865
Update: I got the measuring equipment and, following Joe's instructions, the gap at the top (D) was too big. I adjusted it. I tested it. The first five tests of very fast sewing were great and on the 6th test, the thread again frayed and came unthreaded. I decided to test it on an actual quilt. The stitch was just great for the first part of the seam and then frayed again and unthreaded. I rethreaded, checked the bobbin, and tried again. This time, even on a slow speed, not only did it fray and unthread, but it unseated the bobbin again AND CURVED -- not even bent -- the needle, a Singer 16. Grrrrrr! I cleaned out and oiled the bobbin area, rethreaded, reseated bobbin, etc. This time I gave it a Schmetz 90 needle. I was aggravated by then and went off to treat my sunburn. I'll try again tomorrow.
I think I will check along the whole path for any burrs, try a different thread (previously done), and see about the difference a needle makes. I may have to play with the gaps again (thanks, Joe!). I'll just do one thing at a time.
I'm hesitant to say timing; I think it is more likely to be a bobbin area issue. Do you agree?
Why won't that darn machine work right???
Cricket
I think I will check along the whole path for any burrs, try a different thread (previously done), and see about the difference a needle makes. I may have to play with the gaps again (thanks, Joe!). I'll just do one thing at a time.
I'm hesitant to say timing; I think it is more likely to be a bobbin area issue. Do you agree?
Why won't that darn machine work right???
Cricket
06-08-2014, 09:28 PM
#15
Super Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Not Here
Posts: 3,817
Cricket, look for something ON the bobbincase that's grabbing thread.
Here's my theory: Twice the bobbin case has been yanked out of its position. I don't think this is really supposed to be possible in regular use. Not with that retention system. The only way I could see it dislodging would be with a giant yank to the back and upward. Pretty much what the take-up lever would be doing to the thread that's probably yanking the case out of place. The other place I would check is on the thread path to the right side of the take up lever. If it were caught there, and the TUL wanted thread delivered from the right side, it may yank the case out of place while trying to grab thread from the other side. Does it pucker the seam at the same time?
You could also try the throat plate and bobbin case from your 401. Heck, even the tensioner. That could eliminate 3 places for burrs.
Here's my theory: Twice the bobbin case has been yanked out of its position. I don't think this is really supposed to be possible in regular use. Not with that retention system. The only way I could see it dislodging would be with a giant yank to the back and upward. Pretty much what the take-up lever would be doing to the thread that's probably yanking the case out of place. The other place I would check is on the thread path to the right side of the take up lever. If it were caught there, and the TUL wanted thread delivered from the right side, it may yank the case out of place while trying to grab thread from the other side. Does it pucker the seam at the same time?
You could also try the throat plate and bobbin case from your 401. Heck, even the tensioner. That could eliminate 3 places for burrs.
06-09-2014, 06:15 AM
#16
Super Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,091
Cricket,
You need to check and adjust all 4 specs they work together. And as Tammi said said, check for burrs or other things.
When I set the gaps on these machines I try to set them in the middle of the allowances. So far that's worked good for me.
If you needle is being bent, there has to be a physical cause for that. Either the hook is out of time or the fabric is being pulled and is deflecting the needle.
Joe
You need to check and adjust all 4 specs they work together. And as Tammi said said, check for burrs or other things.
When I set the gaps on these machines I try to set them in the middle of the allowances. So far that's worked good for me.
If you needle is being bent, there has to be a physical cause for that. Either the hook is out of time or the fabric is being pulled and is deflecting the needle.
Joe
06-09-2014, 04:14 PM
#17
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 865
Hi Tammi. Your theory sounds good to me, so I went over every bit of the entire thread path. I found one slightly rough area after the tension, but not on the exact tread path.
The seam does not pucker.
I would have tried switching parts with the 401, but at this moment, it doesn't seem necessary. I've sewed three long, very fast seams with no problems so far, but have not yet tried it on a quilt. The difference is that I followed Joe's instructions and measured and adjusted the part that holds the bobbin in, and I used a Schmetz 90 needle. Oh, I also flossed the tension thoroughly. I did catch some shredding there. I haven't done anything about that (crocus cloth) yet because of the three good seams. My philosophy is that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Thanks, Joe. I did check and adjust all 4 specs together. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
Good idea on setting gaps in the middle. I'll remember that and do it next time.
Maybe I am pulling the fabric. It is hard to handle a quilt in the space of just the cabinet. I don't have any other tables upstairs to support quilts nor room for them. I do have them downstairs but I also have knee issues and stairs are not doable right now. I'm guessing it isn't out of timing because the stitch remains perfect. Would you agree? Also, I see no needle marks or indications of timing problems. Unless you know something I don't? If so, do tell, please.
I will try to quilt my quilt and I'll let you know how it goes.
Cricket
The seam does not pucker.
I would have tried switching parts with the 401, but at this moment, it doesn't seem necessary. I've sewed three long, very fast seams with no problems so far, but have not yet tried it on a quilt. The difference is that I followed Joe's instructions and measured and adjusted the part that holds the bobbin in, and I used a Schmetz 90 needle. Oh, I also flossed the tension thoroughly. I did catch some shredding there. I haven't done anything about that (crocus cloth) yet because of the three good seams. My philosophy is that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Thanks, Joe. I did check and adjust all 4 specs together. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
Good idea on setting gaps in the middle. I'll remember that and do it next time.
Maybe I am pulling the fabric. It is hard to handle a quilt in the space of just the cabinet. I don't have any other tables upstairs to support quilts nor room for them. I do have them downstairs but I also have knee issues and stairs are not doable right now. I'm guessing it isn't out of timing because the stitch remains perfect. Would you agree? Also, I see no needle marks or indications of timing problems. Unless you know something I don't? If so, do tell, please.
I will try to quilt my quilt and I'll let you know how it goes.
Cricket
Last edited by cricket_iscute; 06-09-2014 at 04:17 PM.
06-11-2014, 11:21 PM
#19
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 200
Originally Posted by maurie
Change/reverse your needle.
This should correct your problem of machine coming unthreaded
This should correct your problem of machine coming unthreaded
06-12-2014, 05:06 AM
#20
Super Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,091
Cricket,
Here is a trick I tried with Rusty, my rusted 99K. His thread path was rough with rust and that was causing trouble.
So I got some really thick thread, probably carpet thread, coated it with jewelers rouge and then ran it through each guide as if it were the machine doing it. I used a back and forth stroke with the string until it broke from the friction. Then I cleaned out the thread bits and rouge and noted a huge improvement. It's just and idea to try for the burrs if you still have some.
Joe
Here is a trick I tried with Rusty, my rusted 99K. His thread path was rough with rust and that was causing trouble.
So I got some really thick thread, probably carpet thread, coated it with jewelers rouge and then ran it through each guide as if it were the machine doing it. I used a back and forth stroke with the string until it broke from the friction. Then I cleaned out the thread bits and rouge and noted a huge improvement. It's just and idea to try for the burrs if you still have some.
Joe
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