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Thread: Did anyone else read this in McCall's mag

  1. #151
    AbbyQuilts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattee
    JJs and Dodie,

    I'm sorry if I offended you, or anyone else, but it just seems that a lot of people don't get it. People are complaining about copyright a lot on this thread, and writing about what they will and won't do, and the portions of copyright law that do and do not have "control" over them. Some people are also making it clear that they don't understand what a derivative work is.

    If I was a professional designer reading this thread, I would be throwing my hands up in frustration and seriously considering throwing in the towel. I know that a lot of designers in many different crafting mediums have already done so because they are sick and tired of being ripped off by people who don't understand or don't care about copyright. It seems like there are a lot of people who fall into one of those two categories posting in this thread. I feel awful for those designers who work so hard and help bring me so many hours of enjoyment, and I want them to know that there are people out there who do care about their rights.

    You may want me to stop correcting some people's misinterpretations and misinformation, but I suspect that there are some people who appreciate reading a clarification, rather than more complaints about how copyright laws just aren't fair. When people spread inaccurate information, it hurts everyone, and there have been a lot of inaccurate conclusions drawn and then spread in this thread.

    I am not trying to be rude but I am seriously curious

    Are you a copyright lawyer?

  2. #152

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    No, I'm not a lawyer. I am just a particularly well educated layperson when it comes to this topic. I've followed several copyright controversies closely over the years, particularly as they apply to the crafting industries. My understanding of copyright law has always matched what was published not only in the McCall's article, but also what has been published in many other forms in many other places, some linked to on this thread. There are many craft designers who have gone after copyright violators over the years, most often for photocopying designs, but also for sharing patterns, making derivative works without giving credit, and in some cases, for public display of works without getting permission. Different designers choose to enforce copyright laws to varying extents, and I've always been very interested in watching how and to what extent different designers and companies choose to protect their works.

    My professional experience with copyright is related to the written word. While not a lawyer, I have been in a position to identify those who have committed plagiarism and work with them in an educational capacity to understand copyright, plagiarism, and how to fairly and legally navigate copyright law.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJs
    you know, Mattee, WE GET IT you do not need to keep going on and on about the copyright - WE GET IT....
    The problem - as I see it and IN MY OPINION ONLY - YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY AND I don't care...
    is the stupidity of having to ask mommy if you can show the quilt that you made....
    why force people to go to the stupid step of asking permission to show a quilt in a quilt show - why not PUT THE INFORMATION in with the pattern in the first place - either say, "once you have your quilt completed from this pattern, you are allowed to show your quilt at guild shows" or not.....
    The other problem with the whole thing is the magazine or designers or even the copyright saying that you cannot make a DERIVATIVE work from a quilt pattern and claim it as your own - but in the VERY SAME ISSUE that the RULES are in are SEVERAL quilts "designed" using public domain blocks - DERIVATIVE WORKS from run of the mill, old, everyday quilts...

    What makes one "designer" derivative quilt "ok" but the next person is not allowed???
    This

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattee
    No, I'm not a lawyer. I am just a particularly well educated layperson when it comes to this topic. I've followed several copyright controversies closely over the years, particularly as they apply to the crafting industries. My understanding of copyright law has always matched what was published not only in the McCall's article, but also what has been published in many other forms in many other places, some linked to on this thread. There are many craft designers who have gone after copyright violators over the years, most often for photocopying designs, but also for sharing patterns, making derivative works without giving credit, and in some cases, for public display of works without getting permission. Different designers choose to enforce copyright laws to varying extents, and I've always been very interested in watching how and to what extent different designers and companies choose to protect their works.

    My professional experience with copyright is related to the written word. While not a lawyer, I have been in a position to identify those who have committed plagiarism and work with them in an educational capacity to understand copyright, plagiarism, and how to fairly and legally navigate copyright law.
    Written word and crafting quilts though are different. The entire culture behind novel writing vs crafting quilts is also different.

  5. #155
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    very thankful that my subcription exspires with the next issue and wii not renew I have already called the other two and explained so that is 3 subscriptions they have lost why do I need their magazine if the patterns are off limits they have forgotten who butters their bread greed is the name of the game

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattee
    JJs and Dodie,

    I'm sorry if I offended you, or anyone else, but it just seems that a lot of people don't get it. People are complaining about copyright a lot on this thread, and writing about what they will and won't do, and the portions of copyright law that do and do not have "control" over them. Some people are also making it clear that they don't understand what a derivative work is.

    If I was a professional designer reading this thread, I would be throwing my hands up in frustration and seriously considering throwing in the towel. I know that a lot of designers in many different crafting mediums have already done so because they are sick and tired of being ripped off by people who don't understand or don't care about copyright. It seems like there are a lot of people who fall into one of those two categories posting in this thread. I feel awful for those designers who work so hard and help bring me so many hours of enjoyment, and I want them to know that there are people out there who do care about their rights.

    You may want me to stop correcting some people's misinterpretations and misinformation, but I suspect that there are some people who appreciate reading a clarification, rather than more complaints about how copyright laws just aren't fair. When people spread inaccurate information, it hurts everyone, and there have been a lot of inaccurate conclusions drawn and then spread in this thread.
    This is only MY opinion, but I don't have a problem with the copyright laws, I just want them to be explained in plain English and let me know if I am truly breaking the law by making a quilt, giving it away and then it gets sold, or I make a quilt to be shown in a quilt show. I read a lot of web pages since this saga began, and 5 out of 10 said these laws were legal, but couldn't be enforced, and the other 5 of the 10 said they were NOT legal. I wonder why at this time McCalls printed that article, did they discover quilts out there that were made from patterns in their magazines and they were being shown or sold without permission?? It does make you wonder.
    I for one, am sick of the whole issue, not because of this quilt thread, but because I don't know what McCalls is after, and now I guess I don't trust them. Are they going to track down everyone who buys the mag and check for unauthorized quilts? It's not like quilters are out to cheat everyone, but we buy these patterns in good faith, and expect to use them, and maybe it is the honor system, but how in the world can they police all of us? I agree with the others that have mentioned that when we buy a pattern, or magazine, give us permission to use the pattern and be done with it.

  7. #157
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    Well this is a tough one. I can see that there is some controvery over the article in the very same issue as my last quilt. I design for McCall's Quilting and I just saw that a member of the forum entered my So Blissful Quilt, July/Aug 2010 issue in a Fair. I am the sole owner of the copyright and as such, the law says she should have gotten written permission from me before displaying it in a public place. You see, when she entered the quilt without my name on it as the designer, she implied it was her design. I get requests all the time and time and time again I have given permission. It takes a little time to do that, but the design legally belongs to me. My quilts are not taken from public domain patterns, they are all quite original. McCall's provided a contract giving them permission to publish the quilt. I signed the contract which also stated that I could not make a pattern of the quilt for sale for four months after the quilt is published. It has not been four months and I purchased 60 magazines from McCall's to provide the pattern. I posted a comment about her quilt, it was well pieced and quilted and I did not mention that she should have asked permission. I know that so many people don't even know the copyright law, I'm sure she didn't and I was secretly pleased she chose that pattern and the fabric I used. I would certainly like to know how you guys feel about this. I welcome comments and hope that I did not offend, I would really hate to do that. Dorothy Ann Weld

    This picture was taken just before it was mailed to McCall's
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  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothy Ann
    Well this is a tough one. I can see that there is some controvery over the article in the very same issue as my last quilt. I design for McCall's Quilting and I just saw that a member of the forum entered my So Blissful Quilt, July/Aug 2010 issue in a Fair. I am the sole owner of the copyright and as such, the law says she should have gotten written permission from me before displaying it in a public place. You see, when she entered the quilt without my name on it as the designer, she implied it was her design. I get requests all the time and time and time again I have given permission. It takes a little time to do that, but the design legally belongs to me. My quilts are not taken from public domain patterns, they are all quite original. McCall's provided a contract giving them permission to publish the quilt. I signed the contract which also stated that I could not make a pattern of the quilt for sale for four months after the quilt is published. It has not been four months and I purchased 60 magazines from McCall's to provide the pattern. I posted a comment about her quilt, it was well pieced and quilted and I did not mention that she should have asked permission. I know that so many people don't even know the copyright law, I'm sure she didn't and I was secretly pleased she chose that pattern and the fabric I used. I would certainly like to know how you guys feel about this. I welcome comments and hope that I did not offend, I would really hate to do that. Dorothy Ann Weld
    I feel if you are publishing the pattern in a quilting magazine, then you are giving permission for people to make quilts from that magazine. Why else buy that magazine?

    How many people in the past, said which designer designed this or that pattern. Look at patterns that people bought of the sun bonnet sue in the past. Do we know who designed those patterns? We have guesses. Do we know who designed the original patterns in the public domain? When we make the quilts, we are showcasing our ability to piece and quilt the quilts, not necessarily just the design.

    Those that do design and make original quilts are awe inspiring.

    I don't think if someone enters a quilt in a quilt show that they are automatically claiming they came up with the design though.

  9. #159
    Super Member Dodie's Avatar
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    I agree but this is getting so stupid I will not be renewing any of my magazine subscriptions because if it is so touchy we cannot enter them in our local fairs and or shows I do not need the magazine once I get the pattern I feel after all the hard work the quilt that I made is mine I do respect the designer and do not photo copy their patterns but once I buy the pattern I consider it mine for my use if I can't do this why buy the magazine there are other places for patterns

  10. #160
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    This was on McCalls Site,with the link at the bottom...

    Reader Response
    We have had lots of reader response to this thought-provoking article. Therefore, we are working with the author of the piece, Janet Jo Smith, to prepare a short follow-up for our November/December issue. Copyright law is a complex topic, one which we would never have space enough to present completely to our readers. But it’s also a very important topic, and one we believe all quilters need information about in order to protect their rights and respect those of other quilters. It was with this in mind that we presented Janet Jo’s answers to quilters’ most common copyright questions. Unfortunately, some readers seem to have drawn inaccurate conclusions based on the limited information presented in the article, and are feeling alarmed about situations where copyright law has little or no application. For example, vast numbers of our favorite quilt blocks and patterns have been within the public domain for years and are not encumbered by copyright law as we understand it. We’re glad the article has spurred such interest and discussion in the quilting community, and hope you’ll watch for the follow-up.
    Aug 12, 2010 at 09:10 AM

    Link:
    http://www.mccallsquilting.com/artic...s__and_Wrongs_

    Based on the bold marks, since most of their blocks are in the public domain, I think your ok to display a quilt made with one of their patterns.

  11. #161
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    Hi Moon Wolf, I understand how you feel and I really ment it when I said I welcomed feedback. This issue has evidently been brought up before on this forum and I can see why. I don't go to quilt shows, I don't look at magazine quilts, and yes that even includeds the ones my quilts are published in. I don't do those things because I am afraid I will take away an idea from someone else's creative brain. I have been told that my designs are quite different. I just love to come up with fun stuff and because I don't look at other's work, I only submit the quilts that I hope are uniquely mine. You noticed the word hope. As to the quilts that are designed with public domain blocks and patterns, I wonder about whether those people should even be called designers. But, I do design, I usually have 20 versions of a quilt before I send one off for publication. I also have a quilt in the Sep/Oct issue which is on the stands now. It is shown in another fabric as my signature. Thanks for responding, I appreciate being able to share my views, I wanted to hear yours.

  12. #162
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    This controversy could be brought to a screeching halt by the designers and the quilt magazines. Anyone publishing or selling an ORIGINAL quilt design only has to state Clearly IN WRITING on the pattern , in an easily seen location, that it may or may not be used in a show, sold, or gifted or used for a raffle for any worthy cause. This way no one could say they didn't know the intent of the mag. or the designer and we would all know which designers to avoid if we want to do any of the above. Some quilters may or may not know or understand copyright laws and this would help us all avoid confusion.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson's mom
    This controversy could be brought to a screeching halt by the designers and the quilt magazines. Anyone publishing or selling an ORIGINAL quilt design only has to state Clearly IN WRITING that it may or may not be used in a show, sold, or gifted or used for a raffle for any worthy cause. This way no one could say they didn't know the intent of the mag. or the designer and we would all know which designers to avoid if we want to do any of the above. Some quilters may or may not know or understand copyright laws and this would help us all avoid confusion.
    Yes it could be cleared up that way. However... Is it legal of them to claim that right. That's the other part of this discussion.

  14. #164
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    Hi Dodie, please don't cancel your membership to one of the finest quilt magazines on the market. McCall's didn't write the laws and they are some of the sweetest people in the world. I know because I design for them and they are so wonderful. I email and speak to those fine ladies almost every week and I know that they are only trying to protect my rights along with all of their other designers. I have a quilt in another magazine and I signed my rights to the quilt over to the magazine. It wasn't all that original and quite frankly, it was the only reason I allowed the fabric company I designed it for to submit it. I didn't feel comfortable copyrighting it. McCall's finds patterns and quilts they think the general public will enjoy. You can make 20 of each of the quilts without asking permission, you can show them off to your friends, give them as gifts and I assume show them at show and tell at your guild. It's that if you place it in a public place, it can then easily become public property. McCall's often publish articles about quilting issues that don't pertain to a needle or thread. They are really an amazinrg group of hard working deligent people. I'm so very proud to be published in their magazine and I want you to see all of my quilts. I have two coming out next year, please don't miss them. Dorothy Ann

  15. #165
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    Hi Linda, I am a designer for McCall's and have given my views and thoughts as such on pages 9 and 10, I think. McCall's writes wonderful articles on related issues all the time. This topic is very relevant and I do understand how you guys feel, but the article was an informative look at something that is very real in my world. If I thought McCall's Quilting wasn't ethical, I wouldn't want my name associated with them. But they work very hard to find and produce one of the best quilting magazines on the market.

  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothy Ann
    Hi Dodie, please don't cancel your membership to one of the finest quilt magazines on the market. McCall's didn't write the laws and they are some of the sweetest people in the world. I know because I design for them and they are so wonderful. I email and speak to those fine ladies almost every week and I know that they are only trying to protect my rights along with all of their other designers. I have a quilt in another magazine and I signed my rights to the quilt over to the magazine. It wasn't all that original and quite frankly, it was the only reason I allowed the fabric company I designed it for to submit it. I didn't feel comfortable copyrighting it. McCall's finds patterns and quilts they think the general public will enjoy. You can make 20 of each of the quilts without asking permission, you can show them off to your friends, give them as gifts and I assume show them at show and tell at your guild. It's that if you place it in a public place, it can then easily become public property. McCall's often publish articles about quilting issues that don't pertain to a needle or thread. They are really an amazinrg group of hard working deligent people. I'm so very proud to be published in their magazine and I want you to see all of my quilts. I have two coming out next year, please don't miss them. Dorothy Ann
    I do not need any magazines I can use EQ6 as well as anyone then when I enter the fair I will not have to look over my shoulder I already called the other 2 people that I gave the magazine to and explained why the next issue would be their last they also agreed did not know we cannot use the pattern or quilt after paying big bucks for both patterns and fabric wonder if those people even had a clue why we spent money on their magazines there was a pattern in the quilt shop I would of bought last week but 12.95 plus all the fabric then could not show it no thank you I left the pattern in the shop and told them why

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothy Ann
    I don't go to quilt shows, I don't look at magazine quilts, and yes that even includeds the ones my quilts are published in. I don't do those things because I am afraid I will take away an idea from someone else's creative brain.
    This is a very extreme. :?

  18. #168
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    I already cancel my subscription plus the 2 I gave for gifts I called and explained to the people after paying big bucks for fabric and patterns that we could not even show them in the fair or our local quilt shows no thanks I do not need those magazines or any patterns I can use EQ6 as well as any one else I was in the quilt shop last week saw a pattern I loved 12.95 but I left it in the shop and told her why I consider my quilt mine after paying for everything and the day I can't do that I do not need their supplies

  19. #169
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    It may be extreme, but I want to do the right thing. I used to look at them for inspiration, but now I get it from all that beautiful fabric out there. I think canceling your subscription because they printed the law could be viewed as extreme as well. Of course, it is a bit extreme for both of us to speak to each other in this manner. You are a free thinker, and as such, you have formed opinions. It would appear that both our rights to free speech is being excercised and I cherish that.

  20. #170
    JJs
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    Where is it written in law that a person buying a pattern with the express purpose of making a quilt has to ask permission of the designer to show a quilt in a guild show or fair?
    As has been asked ad infinitum, why can't that particular piece of information be included if not on each pattern, at LEAST SOMEWHERE IN EACH COPY OF THE MAGAZINE....
    I've looked through my magazines and books and while the usual copyright information is there - you can't copy the pattern and pass it around, the 'designer' owns the copyright blah blah, NOWHERE does it say YOU HAVE TO ASK PERMISSION TO SHOW THIS QUILT.

    Yes, your quilts look very original - you aren't making yet another 'derivative' work from traditional squares - one instance. But just as a for instance, the main body of quilts in the current issue of McCalls being discussed are DERIVATIVE works.... And just as you say that you do NOT LOOK AT MAGAZINES, maybe the rest of us want to say the same so that WE ALSO cannot be accused of making a derivative quilt or copied a quilt from some magazine. And we want to be able to enter a quilt in a fair or guild show or whatever without worrying about whether this or that pattern from such and so book or magrag is one that we forgot to get permission to take out of the house.

    So EQ for me, even tho it bugs me that it phones home... It's something else that I paid money for - didn't steal it or copy it or pilfer it - bought it paid for it and fershure plan to get my money's worth out of it!

  21. #171
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    Dorothy Ann, In one post you stated that you designed for McCalls and it is copyrighted. Then in another you say "McCall's finds patterns and quilts they think the general public will enjoy. You can make 20 of each of the quilts without asking permission, you can show them off to your friends, give them as gifts and I assume show them at show and tell at your guild."
    I am assuming that you mean that McCalls is not including your patterns in the ones that they have found and thought the general public will enjoy?
    I agree with the majority here. We are NOT against the copyright laws, but it makes NO SENSE to buy a magazine and make a quilt from a pattern in that magazine and then not be able to show it, give it or whatever, without permission. That is what we are all upset about. It defeats the purpose of buying the magazine if we can't use the patterns without strings attached.
    And what is this garbage about making 20 of something? Are we to assume is we make 21 we will be hauled away to jail? If you step back and look at it logically and in the way that we are (none of us to my knowledge are designers) you will see that we have a valid complaint.
    I am also not renewing any of my subscriptions because I don't want to make something and find out that I have violated a copy right law.
    I am sure the folks at McCalls quilting are wonderful people and all of us here know that they didn't make the laws. But we just don't understand the whole idea behind the copyright patterns being in a magazine for anyone in the world to buy and make-with stipulations.

  22. #172
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    Well, I hope you do one of mine someday. I will gladly give you permission, Dorothy Ann

  23. #173
    JJs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothy Ann
    Well, I hope you do one of mine someday. I will gladly give you permission, Dorothy Ann
    the permission should be inherent in the pattern - not a separate thing...

    the whole thing in a nutshell

  24. #174
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    I went back and read what you wrote. I do see your point. The law doesn't limit the number of quilts you make for your personal use, this would include making and giving as gifts forever. I'm sorry we will lose you as a subscriber, but I bet your EQ quilts will be wonderful. By the way, if you go back to the quilt in the July/Aug issue of McCall's, it was stated that I used EQ to design the quilt. I used the butterfly on EQ. We have to do it too.

  25. #175
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    Well, I can see that all of you are upset about a law that I didn't write and haven't agreed or disagreed with. I sensed that your anger is somehow aimed at me. It is my profession. I take a huge risk when I publish and kit the quilt. I lose money on some, and others I make money, but not a lot. I just love what I do. And I will not call anything you have said, garbage. It is your individual opinion. I was only trying to share from a different perspective. I didn't expect to be quoted and vented to. I'm a teacher by profession and I encouraged individual thought. I still do, but I have not written anything other than the presentation of my views.

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