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Thread: Did anyone else read this in McCall's mag

  1. #201
    Super Member LindaR's Avatar
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    with your own idea for how to put those tools (whether they be words or blocks) together, it is copyrighted, period

    You don't have to apply for a copyright?????

  2. #202
    Super Member LindaR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothy Ann
    Thank you for clearing that up. I don't know the answer to that. I don't represent McCall's, I only design quilts with the hope that they wiil be accepted. I don't know why that article was printed. I hope the follow up article helps. I've gone back over every thing I wrote this evening and I can't find anything I would be ashamed for anyone to see. As I have said, my purpose was to share another opinion. I am by nature a peace maker. I don't like conflict but I'm not sorry I shared my view as a designer. My website is www.peacebypiecing.com You will find alot of who I am on that site.
    does McCalls own your pattern after it is published in a magazine??? are you allowed to sell it or quilts from it???

  3. #203
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    Thank you so much for the mention of the hard work designers put in. It takes weeks of work to finalize a design, find fabric that will be current when the magazine comes out, make decisions about how many bolts of each of the fabrics to buy in order to kit it. And, sometimes it doesn't sell as much as the quilt before it, leaving us with fabrics we have already paid for....we can't send it back. Just one bolt of fabric is from $70 to $80 and my last quilt had 10 fabrics in it. By the way, most of those fabrics required from 4 to 5 bolts to kit a reasonable number of kits. This is my job, I don't have another. Should my ideas and designs be free for anyone to make and sell without even a breath of credit given to me. There seems to be a great deal of anger over the fact that designers want credit for designing the quilts. Thank you so much for your defense of our right to get credit for the design. And you are right, sometimes it is discouraging to not only have people to profit from the fruits of my labor, but to do it knowing it isn't legal.

  4. #204
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    I still believe that when a quilt is made from someones pattern you should give that person recognition. I still plan on including their name and name of quilt on my labels. If I didn't design it I shouldn't get that credit. Of course I put my name for making and quilting it. And yes, I have thought of doing a follow-up to them. That whole article seemed like scare tactics to me and I can't understand why someone is so set on scaring people that way. I wonder where she got her info from or if these are just her feelings about copyright.

  5. #205
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    That is a really good question and not one that I knew the answer to until I went through the process with McCall's. I never lose my copyright, McCall's never owns it. I sign a contract saying that they have permission to publish it, but you will notice that not only does McCall's give us credit for the design, they include our pictures and give credit to the maker and quilter. I retain the copyright and they have provided quilters with my Email address so that the okay to show the pattern in a fair or use it to raffle off to raise money is mine to give They do that because I own the right to do that and the answer without exception has been yes. I can't publish the pattern for 4 months after it is released. I always buy at least 50 magazines to use as patterns if I teach a class on the quilt. Thank you for the question.

  6. #206
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    Oh, my. Thank you. I don't want to be the bad guy here. I have designed dozens of quilts at no cost, not even for the color copy ink it takes to print the quilt and all the blocks and measurements. I do it for individual quilters, friends and most recently for a group of ladies who wanted a quilt to raffle off to honor a member of their group that lost her arm and shoulder to cancer. I designed the quilt, called Northcott who generously donated the fabric and then was invited to help make the quilt. I just love to design, but before P&B Textiles and McCall's started publishing my quilts only a few people even saw, much less made quilts I designed.

  7. #207
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    If I designed a pattern to sell, I would have no problem with the person that bought that pattern if she wanted to make money off of making it and selling. I got what I wanted for it when she bought the pattern. But I wouldn't want her passing the pattern around to her friends to do the same. I'd lose the money from those women who didn't buy the pattern. So I can respect that as a copyright law.

  8. #208
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    Nor was I, interesting.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothy Ann
    Thank you so much for the mention of the hard work designers put in. It takes weeks of work to finalize a design, find fabric that will be current when the magazine comes out, make decisions about how many bolts of each of the fabrics to buy in order to kit it. And, sometimes it doesn't sell as much as the quilt before it, leaving us with fabrics we have already paid for....we can't send it back. Just one bolt of fabric is from $70 to $80 and my last quilt had 10 fabrics in it. By the way, most of those fabrics required from 4 to 5 bolts to kit a reasonable number of kits. This is my job, I don't have another. Should my ideas and designs be free for anyone to make and sell without even a breath of credit given to me. There seems to be a great deal of anger over the fact that designers want credit for designing the quilts. Thank you so much for your defense of our right to get credit for the design. And you are right, sometimes it is discouraging to not only have people to profit from the fruits of my labor, but to do it knowing it isn't legal.
    I can't say that I have seen a whole lot anger over designers wanting credit for their work - just the degree of control they want over the finished quilt. I am just a newbie quilter, but I include both the designer's name and the name of the pattern on my labels and am more than happy to pay a fair price for the pattern.

    I also have a friend who designs quilts for a living, and does pretty well at it too, so I understand that designers need to get a fair return for their efforts.

  10. #210
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    Oh, what a treasure. Thank you for that. I had loads of calls stating that they bought that issue just for that quilt. I don't need that to keep designing, I'll do that until I can't see anymore, but it was really lovely of you to say. By the way, was it Oh What a Beautiful Morning that is out now or So Blissful in the last issue. No matter, when you get ready to make that quilt, please call me and I will give you a kit and it will be my pleasure. Dorothy Ann

  11. #211
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    I read the article in the magazine, and read parts of this thread, and I can see that the issue on hand may be confusing at so many levels. The part that confuses me the most though and I hope someone may be able to shed some light for me, is that the article states that one can't publicly display a cpyrighted quilt without the designer permission, does that mean that on this very board we are all violating the copyright rules (myself included)?

    To be sure, I always give credit to the designer when I post a photo of their design, but I never seeked their permission to post a photo on this site, never thought I needed to really, afterall,all of these designers have photos of these quilts/patterns on their websites and you don't need anything other than Internet access to view them.

    On another note, I came across one of Kaffe Fasset's books all displayed on Google Readers for free, every page of it, including all the instructions. I just e-mailed the designer to inform him about that.

    Dorothy Ann, "What a Beautiful Morning" is truly a beautiful quilt that went on my list of quilts to make, as I am just learning to applique.

  12. #212
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    seems like I finally figured out what the designers for McCalls wants we can still hang our quilts in the Library
    post a sign saying no quilts excepted useing McCalls magazine pattern and post this article on the door with that part highlited works for me

  13. #213
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    That would sure get their attention. LOL Would serve them right. Take a pic of the sign and submit to the mag. See how they like it.

  14. #214
    Super Member Dodie's Avatar
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    A good idea I just wrote a letter to Fons and Porter snd ask them what there idea is on this will let you know when I get an answer as far as I can find it is only McCalls but I do respect the designers right with the pattern just not my quilt

  15. #215
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    Oh my, this will be my next to last post. Candi, I appreciate the very gracious comment about my quilt. Thank you. One last time I will say how much I love designing quilts. I have at least 500 and both of my computers threaten to crash. If I were to never be published again, I would continue to create. It is who I am and what I want to do. Very few people see the garden that is my back yard but almost all who do are encouraged to take a cutting, root, or a few seeds. I am forever the sharing sort. What disturbs me is the direction this has taken wherein the phrase, what the designers at McCall's wants. is used. You have no idea what I or any of the other designers at McCall's want. Your comment about hanging a sign in the library saying that none of the quilts displayed were from McCall's was a good idea and would serve McCall's right. I can see that you have firmly turned this into a vendeta against a magazine and their designers simply because you don't agree with the law. What I hope is that all magazines will respond to your inquiry. Fons and Porter, I have a quilt 'Flag It' in the current Fall issue of their Easy Quilts. It is a free fully downloadable pattern on their site. I did not retain the copyright, if anyone has it, it is Fons and Porter. For the record and my last word on the matter. I have defended the law, it was the right thing to do. Designing comes easily to me, but perhaps not for all. In the past year and a half I have had eleven quilts published in some way, three in McCall's and one in Easy Quilts. I am just plain blessed and know it. Did you read the post where I said I designed a quilt for the ladies so they could raffle it off in honor of their friend who lost her arm and shoulder to cancer? I named the quilt, 'For the Love of Bettie' and helped them make it. If not, please read this. I received a call last week from someone who sounded so carefree, I thought she must know me. As it turned out she and her church quilt group were in a quilt shop in a nearby city; they had come to pick out fabric for a quilt they would make to raffle for their church. They do this every year. She said they had come in a van and that everyone had brought books and magazines in order to find a quilt they would make this year. She said that the vote was unanimously for Oh What A Beautiful Morning, my quilt in McCall's Sept/Oct issue. She asked if we could overnight a kit on Monday because one of their members was a teacher and really wanted to help. We finished our conversation at 2:30 with my promise to try to get it in the mail before the Post Office closed at 3:00. My helper and I made it with four minutes to spare. They don't know yet about the copyright permission law. It wasn't the important thing to me. Them getting that kit Monday was the important thing. And because the design is mine to give, I did without ever even mentioning it to them and with absolute joy that I could be a part of that endeavor. One more and I'm done.

  16. #216
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    I own two domain names, www.peacebypiecing.com and peacebypiecing.net. I have made the decision to make some of my patterns free to anyone who wants them on www.peacebypiecing.net There will be no copyrights attached and I will state that each and every time I post one. I will also open the site up to others who want to share their designs. The site .net is not current, I maintain my own website and it takes quite a lot of time especially after Oh What a Beautiful Morning. My what a blessing. I'll make a post on this website when the other site is ready for viewing. God has blessed me, my family and employees. Judy, Pam and Marsha and I have a party every day we 'work', there is no room for discontent.

  17. #217
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    Dorothy, I'm not sure I understand where you stand on this issue and I'm sorry if I've offended you and your talent. Do you believe that a copyright pattern can't be made into a quilt or whatever and be sold legally without permission? I'm just trying to see how you feel about it since you make money selling your work.

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJs
    Here's another thought:
    ************************************************** ***
    For example, vast numbers of our favorite quilt blocks and patterns have been within the public domain for years and are not encumbered by copyright law as we understand it
    ************************************************** ****

    so how is Jane Doe supposed to know the difference if it is not stated on the package/article??

    I've been reading some of the copyright law stuff on the web - not opinions but the laws themselves (see I ain't no dummy too stupid to understand English as it is written no matter what McCalls thinks)..... And my understanding is something like this - feel free to jump in and disagree or whatever LOL
    When a work is created by a designer it is automatically copyrighted to them - they can make the work available to the general public by giving away or selling the instructions - but they retain the copyright unless they specifically state that they are putting the design in the public domain, after that, they have no say so over what is done with the pattern OR THE QUILTS CREATED USING THE PATTERN.

    And, they do have the right to say you can make a copy (quilt)using their pattern and they do have the right to withhold permission to show the copy (quilt) made from said pattern.

    No problems so far - my beef if you want to call it that, is why be so parsimonious and narcisstic as to force quilters who buy these patterns and mags and books IN GOOD FAITH to take the extra step to beg permission to show their quilts. And if you are going to insist on that step PUT IT IN WRITING at the outset. Right on the pattern, in the book or magazine in a prominent place, instead of getting all huffy and accusing folks of theft or worse when most of them have no clue that such a thing is even required.
    You want all rights reserved? Fine, just say so in plain English - put on there YOU HAVE TO ASK MY PERMISSION TO SHOW THIS QUILT or YOU MAY NOT SHOW THIS QUILT AT A PUBLIC QUILT SHOW. Or, as I've stated before, make the statement that, "This quilt may be shown at quilt shows as long as you credit the designer"...
    What is the big deal that this can't be done?
    Why assume that people are out to claim a designer's work?
    I'm sure some people do, but in this day and age of instant communication 99% of them will be found out in a New York minute.

    Give quilters the opportunity to NOT break copyright law - give them the CHANCE TO DECIDE - do I want to buy this pattern and have to ask permission to show the quilt, or do I buy 'this' pattern where the designer has already granted that permission?
    And put it on the OUTSIDE OF THE PACKAGE - so Jane Quilter doesn't get home with said pattern and discover AFTER she opens the package that the quilt she hoped to make for the next guild show is not permitted to be shown.

    And maybe a copyright law should be written to cover quilts and their design and then there would be no problems.

    And, I'm not angry - just disgusted with the whole thing.
    Because if McCalls and other pattern places do that, they will loose money.

    I for one won't buy a magazine, book what have you, and be so limited in my ability to use it.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by candi
    I read the article in the magazine, and read parts of this thread, and I can see that the issue on hand may be confusing at so many levels. The part that confuses me the most though and I hope someone may be able to shed some light for me, is that the article states that one can't publicly display a cpyrighted quilt without the designer permission, does that mean that on this very board we are all violating the copyright rules (myself included)?

    To be sure, I always give credit to the designer when I post a photo of their design, but I never seeked their permission to post a photo on this site, never thought I needed to really, afterall,all of these designers have photos of these quilts/patterns on their websites and you don't need anything other than Internet access to view them.

    On another note, I came across one of Kaffe Fasset's books all displayed on Google Readers for free, every page of it, including all the instructions. I just e-mailed the designer to inform him about that.

    Dorothy Ann, "What a Beautiful Morning" is truly a beautiful quilt that went on my list of quilts to make, as I am just learning to applique.
    Yes you may very well be violating a copyright rule, if you put a picture of a quilt up here that you didn't design.

    Which in all honesty is asinine for the designer. Word of mouth advertising is the best they will get. Quilt shows are good for that as are the boards. To seek that much control over the pattern, once it is published is asking for trouble. You will loose more money in the long run by seeking this much control then if you let people be.

    Even if the op didn't post who the designer is, someone in that thread will and you will get advertising.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothy Ann
    Oh my, this will be my next to last post. Candi, I appreciate the very gracious comment about my quilt. Thank you. One last time I will say how much I love designing quilts. I have at least 500 and both of my computers threaten to crash. If I were to never be published again, I would continue to create. It is who I am and what I want to do. Very few people see the garden that is my back yard but almost all who do are encouraged to take a cutting, root, or a few seeds. I am forever the sharing sort. What disturbs me is the direction this has taken wherein the phrase, what the designers at McCall's wants. is used. You have no idea what I or any of the other designers at McCall's want. Your comment about hanging a sign in the library saying that none of the quilts displayed were from McCall's was a good idea and would serve McCall's right. I can see that you have firmly turned this into a vendeta against a magazine and their designers simply because you don't agree with the law. What I hope is that all magazines will respond to your inquiry. Fons and Porter, I have a quilt 'Flag It' in the current Fall issue of their Easy Quilts. It is a free fully downloadable pattern on their site. I did not retain the copyright, if anyone has it, it is Fons and Porter. For the record and my last word on the matter. I have defended the law, it was the right thing to do. Designing comes easily to me, but perhaps not for all. In the past year and a half I have had eleven quilts published in some way, three in McCall's and one in Easy Quilts. I am just plain blessed and know it. Did you read the post where I said I designed a quilt for the ladies so they could raffle it off in honor of their friend who lost her arm and shoulder to cancer? I named the quilt, 'For the Love of Bettie' and helped them make it. If not, please read this. I received a call last week from someone who sounded so carefree, I thought she must know me. As it turned out she and her church quilt group were in a quilt shop in a nearby city; they had come to pick out fabric for a quilt they would make to raffle for their church. They do this every year. She said they had come in a van and that everyone had brought books and magazines in order to find a quilt they would make this year. She said that the vote was unanimously for Oh What A Beautiful Morning, my quilt in McCall's Sept/Oct issue. She asked if we could overnight a kit on Monday because one of their members was a teacher and really wanted to help. We finished our conversation at 2:30 with my promise to try to get it in the mail before the Post Office closed at 3:00. My helper and I made it with four minutes to spare. They don't know yet about the copyright permission law. It wasn't the important thing to me. Them getting that kit Monday was the important thing. And because the design is mine to give, I did without ever even mentioning it to them and with absolute joy that I could be a part of that endeavor. One more and I'm done.
    Dorothy, you have to also understand the anger that people are feeling. There is another part to this story. Keep in mind the culture of quilting vs the culture of Photography, painting and writing. You are thinking in the art and writing culture vs that of the quilting culture.

  21. #221

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    Quote Originally Posted by alica1367
    The officers of our quilt club including myself spent over an hr. at a lawyers office Fri. to start the ball rolling for us to become a guild. When ins. was discussed I posed the ? about copyrights. I mentioned this article to her. Her answer was "a copyright only pertains to the copying or passing around a pattern or book for others to use. We can't photo copy instructions from a book and sell them or give them to others even for free. We can make & sell anything we have made from our own purchased books. Borrowing books from others and making things to sell then giving the book back is a no no. Anything off the internet can be made and sold. If something is on the internet and we make it, we can sell the finished product. If we want to share the info to others we should direct them to the web site. The only time we can't make a product from something and sell it is if it has a patent on it. The patent# must be on the book or pattern." Where publishers & Authors are losing out is in the sales of their patterns & books. I hope I've explained this easy enough for understanding.
    This is very interesting. I'm sure, being an attorney, she is also well versed in the portion of copyright laws that pertain to your state, as well as which federal copyright laws pertain to quilt patterns. (I don't believe quilts and architecture, performing arts, computer programs, are in the same category.) Thank you for posting.

    This conversation, along with various comments and the very clear direction of McCall's magazine, leads me to believe that if the quilting community slowed their purchasing of these tightly restricted items down, then perhaps things would rapidly change to be more fair, honest and the usage would be clearly documented in the front of said items so that it can be read before purchasing.

    Just my thoughts...

  22. #222

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    Quote Originally Posted by moonwolf23
    Quote Originally Posted by JJs
    Here's another thought:
    ************************************************** ***
    For example, vast numbers of our favorite quilt blocks and patterns have been within the public domain for years and are not encumbered by copyright law as we understand it
    ************************************************** ****

    so how is Jane Doe supposed to know the difference if it is not stated on the package/article??

    I've been reading some of the copyright law stuff on the web - not opinions but the laws themselves (see I ain't no dummy too stupid to understand English as it is written no matter what McCalls thinks)..... And my understanding is something like this - feel free to jump in and disagree or whatever LOL
    When a work is created by a designer it is automatically copyrighted to them - they can make the work available to the general public by giving away or selling the instructions - but they retain the copyright unless they specifically state that they are putting the design in the public domain, after that, they have no say so over what is done with the pattern OR THE QUILTS CREATED USING THE PATTERN.

    And, they do have the right to say you can make a copy (quilt)using their pattern and they do have the right to withhold permission to show the copy (quilt) made from said pattern.

    No problems so far - my beef if you want to call it that, is why be so parsimonious and narcisstic as to force quilters who buy these patterns and mags and books IN GOOD FAITH to take the extra step to beg permission to show their quilts. And if you are going to insist on that step PUT IT IN WRITING at the outset. Right on the pattern, in the book or magazine in a prominent place, instead of getting all huffy and accusing folks of theft or worse when most of them have no clue that such a thing is even required.
    You want all rights reserved? Fine, just say so in plain English - put on there YOU HAVE TO ASK MY PERMISSION TO SHOW THIS QUILT or YOU MAY NOT SHOW THIS QUILT AT A PUBLIC QUILT SHOW. Or, as I've stated before, make the statement that, "This quilt may be shown at quilt shows as long as you credit the designer"...
    What is the big deal that this can't be done?
    Why assume that people are out to claim a designer's work?
    I'm sure some people do, but in this day and age of instant communication 99% of them will be found out in a New York minute.

    Give quilters the opportunity to NOT break copyright law - give them the CHANCE TO DECIDE - do I want to buy this pattern and have to ask permission to show the quilt, or do I buy 'this' pattern where the designer has already granted that permission?
    And put it on the OUTSIDE OF THE PACKAGE - so Jane Quilter doesn't get home with said pattern and discover AFTER she opens the package that the quilt she hoped to make for the next guild show is not permitted to be shown.

    And maybe a copyright law should be written to cover quilts and their design and then there would be no problems.

    And, I'm not angry - just disgusted with the whole thing.
    Because if McCalls and other pattern places do that, they will loose money.

    I for one won't buy a magazine, book what have you, and be so limited in my ability to use it.
    On discussing the actual laws, I believe it totally depends upon which copyright law you're reading. For example, the one you're referring to here does apply to architecture, performing arts, computer programs etc. as it repeatedly states. I do not recall it stating things made of fabric, or patterns, or anything related to sewing/quilting or something along those lines. But, in another area, it does address this. I'm sorry, the name escapes me at the moment (my brain tumor affects memory) but it has to do with utilitarian items and patterns for items made to use. (Also, there is the 'Fair Usage Act'.) I haven't read all of the laws yet as supper called!

    So - I think I'm correct when I say we have to be careful when reading, to read the ones that do apply to fabric patterns, things made of fabric, and/or utilitarian items, etc. that quilting may fall under. At least, this is the way I am reading it.

    Please feel free to correct me, if wrong :)

  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothy Ann
    Oh, what a treasure. Thank you for that. I had loads of calls stating that they bought that issue just for that quilt. I don't need that to keep designing, I'll do that until I can't see anymore, but it was really lovely of you to say. By the way, was it Oh What a Beautiful Morning that is out now or So Blissful in the last issue. No matter, when you get ready to make that quilt, please call me and I will give you a kit and it will be my pleasure. Dorothy Ann
    You're quite welcome Dorothy Ann. I was referring to Oh, What A Beautiful Morning. I love applique and I find the whole quilt to be very charming. I can imagine that this will be a very popular pattern. Thank you also for the very kind and generous offer. :-D

  24. #224
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    I am one who tries to take the time to understand all sides before passing judgement. There are a couple of observations I have seen here that I believe are worth mentioning:

    1. Designers, magazines, and book publishers don't make the copyright laws. If you don't like the laws, work to change them, rather than blame others for them (who also must abide by them, btw).

    2. Loosely paraphrased here, repeatedly it has been mentioned that "if designers/magazines/books don't want people to use their patterns . . . ". Who says they don't? Of course they do. Their desire to share patterns doesn't contradict with the law stating they have ownership of their designs and are to be given due credit.

    3. The consumer does share in the responsibility of knowing ones legal rights and responsibilities. Even if they don't like what the law states.

    Seems to me like a lot of folks are barking up the wrong tree.

  25. #225
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    Dorothy Ann - no matter where the conversation takes us regarding interpretation of the copyright laws - your quilts are absolutely gorgeous!

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