Missing something simple - skipped stitches
05-08-2013, 08:57 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by MadCow333
http://mysewingmachineobsession.blog...ening-and.html
^ Scroll down a bit and there's a little writeup about lapping a 301's needle bar to take out the high spot.
eta: Look real closely at all of the stuff in the bobbin case to make sure there isn't something in there that thread can stick on. My rusty 404 was a bit "grabby" after I picked out all of the lint that had rusted to it.
I am practically no help, but I try anyway. I will run this question past my mother the retired home ec teacher and see if she has a technique for dealing with these Slants.
^ Scroll down a bit and there's a little writeup about lapping a 301's needle bar to take out the high spot.
eta: Look real closely at all of the stuff in the bobbin case to make sure there isn't something in there that thread can stick on. My rusty 404 was a bit "grabby" after I picked out all of the lint that had rusted to it.
I am practically no help, but I try anyway. I will run this question past my mother the retired home ec teacher and see if she has a technique for dealing with these Slants.
Of COURSE you're helping! One of the things I love a forums (fora?) is that you can talk it through, and any little comment might light up the "aha moment"
I will definitely look at lapping the needlebar if it's not straight. I don't have a spare to work with, and I know what the supplier I use here in Canada will say if I ask them: "That's a very old machine...."
I can take the bobbin case out, switch it with another one, and it still skips. The hook area has been scrubbed clean with a tooth brush and a paint brush. I can't see anything that's causing it, but I think I'm too close to it now.
The bobbin position bracket looks "crooked" to me, compared to the other machines, and it's fully adjusted per the service manual, but the thread travels over there after the hook grabs it.. So I don't think it should be relevant? Unless the BCase is moving too much as a result.
The grabbiness can be fixed with a,.. uh, I think it's a scotch brite pad? (Used for pot scrubbing, some sort of plastic or such, not metal, green pad about 4x5") It will stay black and pitted, but the raised stuff will come off and it will be smoother.
I'd love to hear from your mom. I can't help thinking it's a setting / technique, etc, but of course I've had it all apart now,
Last edited by ArchaicArcane; 05-08-2013 at 09:10 PM. Reason: Bracket, not finger....
05-08-2013, 09:07 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by Mizkaki
Tammi,
If everything else is the same from first stitch until the skipped stitch, I'd say that gear is slipping and throwing off the timing. Did you make sure you were retiming on a proper gear? Most retiming is done on the gears that have two set screws. If you retimed on a single set screw gear did you make sure that the setscrews in the gears were tightened down on the flat spots of the shaft. If you tightened down on an edge of the flat or on the round of the shaft the gear can move/ rock slightly.
Cathy
If everything else is the same from first stitch until the skipped stitch, I'd say that gear is slipping and throwing off the timing. Did you make sure you were retiming on a proper gear? Most retiming is done on the gears that have two set screws. If you retimed on a single set screw gear did you make sure that the setscrews in the gears were tightened down on the flat spots of the shaft. If you tightened down on an edge of the flat or on the round of the shaft the gear can move/ rock slightly.
Cathy
I did time from the gear right below the hook, because the feed dog timing was correct. I usually time at the back end (2 screws) when the FD timing is off too.
I did a cursory look at the needlebar last night, it looked like it was timed right. Perhaps the things that are left -are- the big things and I haven't missed the small things? Needlebar and hook?
I should mention that I knew the machine was skipping stitches when I bought it. I also knew about the needle strikes on the bobbin case and the hook. I saw the slightly bent tip of the hook after I bought it, though. I believe the hook to be "fixed", but I'm thinking of pulling the hook from a 411G, and trying it to see if I'm wrong about the original hook. I will try the cotton thread first though.
It just seems to me that if it will sew on thicker fabric, it shouldn't be a "major" problem....? But "Denim or Heavier only" is not appropriate
05-09-2013, 01:55 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by miriam
Thank you. Mine came off time on one side but not the other. I dropped the needle and now it zzs. I'll have to check the screws on there - I'd like to make it work right. Mine is a 5102 - the needle does not center in the hole at all. It wants to go to the left. Not a fabulous machine but if it would work...
Last edited by miriam; 05-09-2013 at 02:00 AM.
05-09-2013, 11:47 AM
#24
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Well, I threw everything I knew how to do at it last night. I timed it again, and from the back this time. I don't like how the Slants look for timing, they always look advanced. 5 out of 6 of them came into the house noticeably advanced, meaning that there's about 3/16" - 1/4" of the hook past the eye of the needle when the lower timing line is in place (one was out of time and the gears loose when it arrived), but the other 4 of them sewed correctly. I was trying to set it the same as the others, and it wasn't working. I figured last night, unless it hit the hook, what did I have to lose by timing it the way it says to in the manual?
Between that, centering the needle in the hole (it still swings a tiny bit more to the left than the right), raising the feed dogs (found the bobbin case from another machine was getting hit by the dogs, so I set the dogs correctly), adjusting and readjusting the bobbin case retaining bracket (get it wrong and the thread makes a "snapping" noise as it goes past, and makes the tension go haywire), lowering and turning the needlebar a tiny smidge, re-setting upper and lower tensions,...
It's no longer skipping stitches.
I just didn't want to disassemble, reassemble, test, disassemble, reassemble, test, disassemble, reassemble, test - so I did a multitude of things before testing, so I can't tell what exactly fixed it, but I suspect that it was a combination of a bunch of things.
I'd still like to know though, why all of the slants are advanced despite what the adjuster's manual (AM) says, yet sew just fine 5 out of 6 times... does anyone else have a slant that's actually timed the way the AM says (ie the hook point is behind the needle at the lower timing line on the upstroke of the needle?) Part of me wants to re-time the others, but the rest of me just wants to put all of the slants in the corner and forget about them and go sew on one of my less belligerent machines.
Hey Miriam, think of it as a character building machine. Like my 431s, there's a lot of character being built. I'm probably turning into a caricature of myself thanks to these machines. 
You say the machine "is" out of time, not "was"... so with the dropping of the needlebar, still out of time, it's not skipping stitches?
Between that, centering the needle in the hole (it still swings a tiny bit more to the left than the right), raising the feed dogs (found the bobbin case from another machine was getting hit by the dogs, so I set the dogs correctly), adjusting and readjusting the bobbin case retaining bracket (get it wrong and the thread makes a "snapping" noise as it goes past, and makes the tension go haywire), lowering and turning the needlebar a tiny smidge, re-setting upper and lower tensions,...
It's no longer skipping stitches.
I just didn't want to disassemble, reassemble, test, disassemble, reassemble, test, disassemble, reassemble, test - so I did a multitude of things before testing, so I can't tell what exactly fixed it, but I suspect that it was a combination of a bunch of things. I'd still like to know though, why all of the slants are advanced despite what the adjuster's manual (AM) says, yet sew just fine 5 out of 6 times... does anyone else have a slant that's actually timed the way the AM says (ie the hook point is behind the needle at the lower timing line on the upstroke of the needle?) Part of me wants to re-time the others, but the rest of me just wants to put all of the slants in the corner and forget about them and go sew on one of my less belligerent machines.
Hey Miriam, think of it as a character building machine.
Like my 431s, there's a lot of character being built. I'm probably turning into a caricature of myself thanks to these machines. You say the machine "is" out of time, not "was"... so with the dropping of the needlebar, still out of time, it's not skipping stitches?
05-09-2013, 12:43 PM
#25
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I didn't drop the needle bar - I just dropped the needle. I think I need to figure out how to center the needle first. It is off center - goes to the left. Then I'll check the timing. I don't think I have manual info how to center that beast though.
05-09-2013, 12:46 PM
#26
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I figured last night, unless it hit the hook, what did I have to lose by timing it the way it says to in the manual?
05-09-2013, 12:47 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by ArchaicArcane
Well, I threw everything I knew how to do at it last night. I timed it again, and from the back this time. I don't like how the Slants look for timing, they always look advanced. 5 out of 6 of them came into the house noticeably advanced, meaning that there's about 3/16" - 1/4" of the hook past the eye of the needle when the lower timing line is in place (one was out of time and the gears loose when it arrived), but the other 4 of them sewed correctly. I was trying to set it the same as the others, and it wasn't working. I figured last night, unless it hit the hook, what did I have to lose by timing it the way it says to in the manual?
Between that, centering the needle in the hole (it still swings a tiny bit more to the left than the right), raising the feed dogs (found the bobbin case from another machine was getting hit by the dogs, so I set the dogs correctly), adjusting and readjusting the bobbin case retaining bracket (get it wrong and the thread makes a "snapping" noise as it goes past, and makes the tension go haywire), lowering and turning the needlebar a tiny smidge, re-setting upper and lower tensions,...
It's no longer skipping stitches. I just didn't want to disassemble, reassemble, test, disassemble, reassemble, test, disassemble, reassemble, test - so I did a multitude of things before testing, so I can't tell what exactly fixed it, but I suspect that it was a combination of a bunch of things.
I'd still like to know though, why all of the slants are advanced despite what the adjuster's manual (AM) says, yet sew just fine 5 out of 6 times... does anyone else have a slant that's actually timed the way the AM says (ie the hook point is behind the needle at the lower timing line on the upstroke of the needle?) Part of me wants to re-time the others, but the rest of me just wants to put all of the slants in the corner and forget about them and go sew on one of my less belligerent machines.
Hey Miriam, think of it as a character building machine. Like my 431s, there's a lot of character being built. I'm probably turning into a caricature of myself thanks to these machines. You say the machine "is" out of time, not "was"... so with the dropping of the needlebar, still out of time, it's not skipping stitches?
Between that, centering the needle in the hole (it still swings a tiny bit more to the left than the right), raising the feed dogs (found the bobbin case from another machine was getting hit by the dogs, so I set the dogs correctly), adjusting and readjusting the bobbin case retaining bracket (get it wrong and the thread makes a "snapping" noise as it goes past, and makes the tension go haywire), lowering and turning the needlebar a tiny smidge, re-setting upper and lower tensions,...
It's no longer skipping stitches.
I just didn't want to disassemble, reassemble, test, disassemble, reassemble, test, disassemble, reassemble, test - so I did a multitude of things before testing, so I can't tell what exactly fixed it, but I suspect that it was a combination of a bunch of things. I'd still like to know though, why all of the slants are advanced despite what the adjuster's manual (AM) says, yet sew just fine 5 out of 6 times... does anyone else have a slant that's actually timed the way the AM says (ie the hook point is behind the needle at the lower timing line on the upstroke of the needle?) Part of me wants to re-time the others, but the rest of me just wants to put all of the slants in the corner and forget about them and go sew on one of my less belligerent machines.
Hey Miriam, think of it as a character building machine.
Like my 431s, there's a lot of character being built. I'm probably turning into a caricature of myself thanks to these machines. You say the machine "is" out of time, not "was"... so with the dropping of the needlebar, still out of time, it's not skipping stitches?
05-09-2013, 03:20 PM
#28
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Okay, I ran all of this by Mom, and she said her 401A has never skipped stitches. The school's Slant machines (404, 401, 403, 501, 503) didn't, either. (Only the Touch & Swears did that, and she evicted all of them and replaced them with Japanese Kenmores, lol.)
The only thing she could think of that has not already been covered in this particular Slant discussion is needle either a smidge too high or too low and did you try setting it higher or lower in the needle clamp.
eta: I was NOT laughing at you, AA/Tammi. I was just amused by the solution, that apparently one prima dona needs to do things "by the book."
The only thing she could think of that has not already been covered in this particular Slant discussion is needle either a smidge too high or too low and did you try setting it higher or lower in the needle clamp.
eta: I was NOT laughing at you, AA/Tammi. I was just amused by the solution, that apparently one prima dona needs to do things "by the book."
Last edited by MadCow333; 05-09-2013 at 03:25 PM.
05-09-2013, 06:22 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by ArchaicArcane
Well, I threw everything I knew how to do at it last night. I timed it again, and from the back this time. I don't like how the Slants look for timing, they always look advanced. 5 out of 6 of them came into the house noticeably advanced, meaning that there's about 3/16" - 1/4" of the hook past the eye of the needle when the lower timing line is in place (one was out of time and the gears loose when it arrived), but the other 4 of them sewed correctly. I was trying to set it the same as the others, and it wasn't working. I figured last night, unless it hit the hook, what did I have to lose by timing it the way it says to in the manual?
Between that, centering the needle in the hole (it still swings a tiny bit more to the left than the right), raising the feed dogs (found the bobbin case from another machine was getting hit by the dogs, so I set the dogs correctly), adjusting and readjusting the bobbin case retaining bracket (get it wrong and the thread makes a "snapping" noise as it goes past, and makes the tension go haywire), lowering and turning the needlebar a tiny smidge, re-setting upper and lower tensions,...
It's no longer skipping stitches. I just didn't want to disassemble, reassemble, test, disassemble, reassemble, test, disassemble, reassemble, test - so I did a multitude of things before testing, so I can't tell what exactly fixed it, but I suspect that it was a combination of a bunch of things.
I'd still like to know though, why all of the slants are advanced despite what the adjuster's manual (AM) says, yet sew just fine 5 out of 6 times... does anyone else have a slant that's actually timed the way the AM says (ie the hook point is behind the needle at the lower timing line on the upstroke of the needle?) Part of me wants to re-time the others, but the rest of me just wants to put all of the slants in the corner and forget about them and go sew on one of my less belligerent machines.
Hey Miriam, think of it as a character building machine. Like my 431s, there's a lot of character being built. I'm probably turning into a caricature of myself thanks to these machines. You say the machine "is" out of time, not "was"... so with the dropping of the needlebar, still out of time, it's not skipping stitches?
Between that, centering the needle in the hole (it still swings a tiny bit more to the left than the right), raising the feed dogs (found the bobbin case from another machine was getting hit by the dogs, so I set the dogs correctly), adjusting and readjusting the bobbin case retaining bracket (get it wrong and the thread makes a "snapping" noise as it goes past, and makes the tension go haywire), lowering and turning the needlebar a tiny smidge, re-setting upper and lower tensions,...
It's no longer skipping stitches.
I just didn't want to disassemble, reassemble, test, disassemble, reassemble, test, disassemble, reassemble, test - so I did a multitude of things before testing, so I can't tell what exactly fixed it, but I suspect that it was a combination of a bunch of things. I'd still like to know though, why all of the slants are advanced despite what the adjuster's manual (AM) says, yet sew just fine 5 out of 6 times... does anyone else have a slant that's actually timed the way the AM says (ie the hook point is behind the needle at the lower timing line on the upstroke of the needle?) Part of me wants to re-time the others, but the rest of me just wants to put all of the slants in the corner and forget about them and go sew on one of my less belligerent machines.
Hey Miriam, think of it as a character building machine.
Like my 431s, there's a lot of character being built. I'm probably turning into a caricature of myself thanks to these machines. You say the machine "is" out of time, not "was"... so with the dropping of the needlebar, still out of time, it's not skipping stitches?Glad you got yours fixed.
Been walking around the house checking our slant needle machines.
T&S 778: Looks to be timed dead on or a tinsy bit late. Don't know how it sews, I haven't had a chance to test it yet.
401A: Timed up late, but sews great and doesn't skip stitches.
500: Dead on. Sews great, no skipped stitches
4622A: Can't tell, no timing marks, but it sews great, no skipped stitches.
Joe
05-10-2013, 09:21 AM
#30
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Originally Posted by miriam
I didn't drop the needle bar - I just dropped the needle. I think I need to figure out how to center the needle first. It is off center - goes to the left. Then I'll check the timing. I don't think I have manual info how to center that beast though.
I know you have that slant service manual, can you use it for reference, and look for mechanisms that do similar things?
Originally Posted by MadCow333
(giggles) Classic case of When in doubt, read the directions, lol. I have *no* idea why the others would be advanced. Maybe the others are all advanced but that 431G is just the one oddball that won't tolerate it. At least you have a happy ending. :-)
I have looked at that procedure before, and I remember looking at all of the slants at the time thinking,.. weird, book is not = to real life... I was starting to believe that too, but the first 431 (Lil' D that I got from vanginney) is timed like the rest. Just some tension tweaks left now, and it should be good.
Originally Posted by miriam
Mine all sew - I'm not even going to look...
Either way, what Joe wrote below sure makes me think they're pretty forgiving, until they aren't. Looks like they'll sew advanced, right on, or even a little behind, which is way different than the Touch and throws I've timed.
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