Did anyone else read this in McCall's mag
08-20-2010, 11:18 PM
#141
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,871
Thank you, Mattee. I think this is very well spoken. I read the McCall's article a few weeks ago. It didn't upset me, but rather left me with more questions. I've been feeling an ethical dilemma lately and I think you may have answered my concern: I am making a quilt inspired by a picture I saw in an ad in the back of a quilting magazine. I know the pattern is for sale because I looked it up at the advertiser's website. It's a scrappy quilt using 2 common (public domain) blocks. But I'm making mine with similar toned fabrics and using the same light/dark placement as the designer. I'm unsure yet about doing the pieced border as pictured or designing my own border containing applique. I only chose to not buy the pattern because it was for a lap size and used 6" blocks. I'm making a queen size and wanted 8" blocks. From your description, my quilt will in fact be a derivative, which is what I've been unsure about up till now. Although it is for my own bed and won't ever be on public display, I want to do what's right here. I feel the same way about sheet music copyrights and hearing someone say, "Who's gonna know?" doesn't make it a correct thing to do. I will be contacting the publisher/designer to ask for permission to use a derivative of the design. If necessary, I'll pay the cost of the pattern. I know I'm going to love the quilt when it's finished and I don't mind paying the designer for an idea that I hadn't come up with on my own. In my opinion, it will be well deserved.
Originally Posted by Mattee
I have been watching this thread for days, with growing alarm and concern. First, I know that copyright law can be complex and confusing. However, I believe that a few things need to be kept in mind. Copyright law was not written by McCall's Quilting. It was written by congress, enacted into law, and applies equally to all intellectual property, not just quilting. I think we need to remember context. The article is simply a brief explanation of how copyright law affects quilting. The laws are the same regardless of industry.
Some people here have given very accurate and brief summaries of the "rules," if you will, but I think a lot of people are concerned about things that aren't actually affected by copyright law. No one is trying to recover the maple leaf block and turn it into private intellectual property. What they are doing is saying that if you use those instructions, for that version of a maple leaf quilt, you need to ask permission before displaying it, and cite the designer when you do. Derivative means a derivative of that version of the quilt - not of a block that happens to also appear in the the quilt. For example, if I decide to use a monkey wrench block, something that I'm very familiar with, to make a quilt that I make up using my own head, it's not derivative, since the block is in the public domain. If, however, I see instructions for how to make a specific monkey wrench quilt that I really like (which I did last month in a magazine), but it inspires me to make an altered version of that specific quilt (I'm changing the size, the relative sizes of the sashing, borders, and blocks, and color scheme), then it is derivative. It is derivative because I would not have thought of putting the quilt together in that way had I not seen the pattern in the magazine. That is the key that makes it derivative. I did not think of it on my own - I thought of the design because I saw someone else's design.
Please remember that most designers are not wealthy or greedy individuals who are trying to cheat us. They are hard-working people who are (sometimes desperately) trying to make a living at something they love. If we want them to continue designing, inside and outside of magazines, we should support them, which means following the law and treating them with respect. In order to do this, I never photocopy a design, I buy one copy of a design for each copy of the quilt I wish to make, and if my design is a copy of or inspired by a pattern, I always credit the designer and ask permission before showing it publicly. It's not that burdensome, and it helps keep my favourite designers in business, not only by giving them my hard-earned money, but by being a advertisement for them as well. When others see credit given to a designer, they're more likely to buy something that designer made, which keeps them in business producing more of the patterns I love.
Let's try to remember the purpose of copyright to begin with, and remember that it protects all of us - whether we're professional designers or not.
Some people here have given very accurate and brief summaries of the "rules," if you will, but I think a lot of people are concerned about things that aren't actually affected by copyright law. No one is trying to recover the maple leaf block and turn it into private intellectual property. What they are doing is saying that if you use those instructions, for that version of a maple leaf quilt, you need to ask permission before displaying it, and cite the designer when you do. Derivative means a derivative of that version of the quilt - not of a block that happens to also appear in the the quilt. For example, if I decide to use a monkey wrench block, something that I'm very familiar with, to make a quilt that I make up using my own head, it's not derivative, since the block is in the public domain. If, however, I see instructions for how to make a specific monkey wrench quilt that I really like (which I did last month in a magazine), but it inspires me to make an altered version of that specific quilt (I'm changing the size, the relative sizes of the sashing, borders, and blocks, and color scheme), then it is derivative. It is derivative because I would not have thought of putting the quilt together in that way had I not seen the pattern in the magazine. That is the key that makes it derivative. I did not think of it on my own - I thought of the design because I saw someone else's design.
Please remember that most designers are not wealthy or greedy individuals who are trying to cheat us. They are hard-working people who are (sometimes desperately) trying to make a living at something they love. If we want them to continue designing, inside and outside of magazines, we should support them, which means following the law and treating them with respect. In order to do this, I never photocopy a design, I buy one copy of a design for each copy of the quilt I wish to make, and if my design is a copy of or inspired by a pattern, I always credit the designer and ask permission before showing it publicly. It's not that burdensome, and it helps keep my favourite designers in business, not only by giving them my hard-earned money, but by being a advertisement for them as well. When others see credit given to a designer, they're more likely to buy something that designer made, which keeps them in business producing more of the patterns I love.
Let's try to remember the purpose of copyright to begin with, and remember that it protects all of us - whether we're professional designers or not.
08-21-2010, 05:01 AM
#142
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,916
Originally Posted by garysgal
Originally Posted by Dodie
Still makes me wonder how these designers can tweek a pattern then sell it for mega bucks One Bock Wonder was the most plain to understand tweeked pattern that I ever saw and
as far as I know Bethany Reynolda designed the one in the stack and whack also when I pay for the pattern buy hards of very expensive fabric do hours and hours of work the quilt is MINE not the pattern as I did not design it but I did pay for it for my use so I am really done with the McCalls magazine get the new copy of Fon's and Porter and read it seems a lot friendlier then McCalls
as far as I know Bethany Reynolda designed the one in the stack and whack also when I pay for the pattern buy hards of very expensive fabric do hours and hours of work the quilt is MINE not the pattern as I did not design it but I did pay for it for my use so I am really done with the McCalls magazine get the new copy of Fon's and Porter and read it seems a lot friendlier then McCalls
I noticed in the latest copy of Fons & Porter, they give permission to use one of the patterns. that was nice to see.
It appears that more and more we are being restricted and if we question or complain, we are "not understanding" what they meant. there is a reason that McCalls printed that article but now there is so much backlash that they will have a fun time trying to explain it all. I wonder how much their magazine will suffer in all of this.
I can't wait to read the next installment in the copyright saga and see what they say-especially about the quilt show issues.
08-21-2010, 06:24 AM
#143
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,460
Originally Posted by garysgal
I wonder if McCalls is getting any feedback on this? Every quilter in America (and beyond) should send them a letter and cancel their subscription. What they printed doesn't make sense and it isn't fair. I agree with JJs-if someone made a quilt without seeing the pattern in a magazine, what then?? enough already! I plan to write to McCalls and let them know what I think.
of Fon's and Porter
08-21-2010, 08:58 AM
#144
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: LA - Lower Alabama
Posts: 888
Let's just say that I cannot figure out why someone would put a pattern in a magazine or book or by itself - KNOWING that whoever buys it (in any form) is going to want to MAKE A QUILT from it. As it's already been said, why else even make the pattern available.
Quilters have ALWAYS SHARED - from waaaaay back when, they would make a stack of 'pattern blocks' - you kept those so you'd know how to make a block. (mainly because paper was at such a premium). These ladies did not snip and snipe at each other - "oh, you used *my* block"
Does this mean no more show and tell at guild meetings?
I guess you make a quilt but hide it in the closet when company comes because the little wifey might see that quilt on the bed and want to copy it.
I don't know who designers are, not familiar with who is who and frankly my dear, I don't give a hoot... and it's a sure bet that at this stage of my life (real live OLD LADY) I'm not going to bother to find out. They can keep their quilt designs and magazines and books and I'll work with my EQ and all the quilts in MY head...
Quilters have ALWAYS SHARED - from waaaaay back when, they would make a stack of 'pattern blocks' - you kept those so you'd know how to make a block. (mainly because paper was at such a premium). These ladies did not snip and snipe at each other - "oh, you used *my* block"
Does this mean no more show and tell at guild meetings?
I guess you make a quilt but hide it in the closet when company comes because the little wifey might see that quilt on the bed and want to copy it.
I don't know who designers are, not familiar with who is who and frankly my dear, I don't give a hoot... and it's a sure bet that at this stage of my life (real live OLD LADY) I'm not going to bother to find out. They can keep their quilt designs and magazines and books and I'll work with my EQ and all the quilts in MY head...
08-21-2010, 09:16 AM
#145
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Lakeshore, Ont. Canada
Posts: 2,731
Originally Posted by JJs
Let's just say that I cannot figure out why someone would put a pattern in a magazine or book or by itself - KNOWING that whoever buys it (in any form) is going to want to MAKE A QUILT from it. As it's already been said, why else even make the pattern available.
Quilters have ALWAYS SHARED - from waaaaay back when, they would make a stack of 'pattern blocks' - you kept those so you'd know how to make a block. (mainly because paper was at such a premium). These ladies did not snip and snipe at each other - "oh, you used *my* block"
Amen! It seem like we are supposed to support these people and the quilt rags with our money but then we have to hide our work in case someone might see it and want to make one like it. These designers can keep their patterns from now on
and the rags can sell their subscriptions to someone else.
Does this mean no more show and tell at guild meetings?
I don't know who designers are, not familiar with who is who and frankly my dear, I don't give a hoot... and it's a sure bet that at this stage of my life (real live OLD LADY) I'm not going to bother to find out. They can keep their quilt designs and magazines and books and I'll work with my EQ and all the quilts in MY head...
Quilters have ALWAYS SHARED - from waaaaay back when, they would make a stack of 'pattern blocks' - you kept those so you'd know how to make a block. (mainly because paper was at such a premium). These ladies did not snip and snipe at each other - "oh, you used *my* block"
Amen! It seem like we are supposed to support these people and the quilt rags with our money but then we have to hide our work in case someone might see it and want to make one like it. These designers can keep their patterns from now on
and the rags can sell their subscriptions to someone else.
Does this mean no more show and tell at guild meetings?
I don't know who designers are, not familiar with who is who and frankly my dear, I don't give a hoot... and it's a sure bet that at this stage of my life (real live OLD LADY) I'm not going to bother to find out. They can keep their quilt designs and magazines and books and I'll work with my EQ and all the quilts in MY head...
08-21-2010, 12:32 PM
#146
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 601
Just to clear a few things up:
There's no reason to hide a quilt when company is coming. You need to ask a designer's permission for public display only. The article in question makes this distinction very clear.
If someone wants to make a copy of a quilt that you made based on a pattern, it's not a problem. That person just needs to buy their own copy of that pattern, which in this day and age of the internet, is very easy to do. You can often get out of print patterns very easily as well, sometimes for free, by contacting the original designer.
Designing a quilt pattern is no different from writing a novel when it comes to copyright. Novelists all use the same tools to make their stories. Quilters all use the same tools to make quilts. When you come up with your own idea for how to put those tools (whether they be words or blocks) together, it is copyrighted, period.
There's no reason to hide a quilt when company is coming. You need to ask a designer's permission for public display only. The article in question makes this distinction very clear.
If someone wants to make a copy of a quilt that you made based on a pattern, it's not a problem. That person just needs to buy their own copy of that pattern, which in this day and age of the internet, is very easy to do. You can often get out of print patterns very easily as well, sometimes for free, by contacting the original designer.
Designing a quilt pattern is no different from writing a novel when it comes to copyright. Novelists all use the same tools to make their stories. Quilters all use the same tools to make quilts. When you come up with your own idea for how to put those tools (whether they be words or blocks) together, it is copyrighted, period.
08-21-2010, 01:13 PM
#147
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: LA - Lower Alabama
Posts: 888
you know, Mattee, WE GET IT you do not need to keep going on and on about the copyright - WE GET IT....
The problem - as I see it and IN MY OPINION ONLY - YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY AND I don't care...
is the stupidity of having to ask mommy if you can show the quilt that you made....
why force people to go to the stupid step of asking permission to show a quilt in a quilt show - why not PUT THE INFORMATION in with the pattern in the first place - either say, "once you have your quilt completed from this pattern, you are allowed to show your quilt at guild shows" or not.....
The other problem with the whole thing is the magazine or designers or even the copyright saying that you cannot make a DERIVATIVE work from a quilt pattern and claim it as your own - but in the VERY SAME ISSUE that the RULES are in are SEVERAL quilts "designed" using public domain blocks - DERIVATIVE WORKS from run of the mill, old, everyday quilts...
What makes one "designer" derivative quilt "ok" but the next person is not allowed???
The problem - as I see it and IN MY OPINION ONLY - YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY AND I don't care...
is the stupidity of having to ask mommy if you can show the quilt that you made....
why force people to go to the stupid step of asking permission to show a quilt in a quilt show - why not PUT THE INFORMATION in with the pattern in the first place - either say, "once you have your quilt completed from this pattern, you are allowed to show your quilt at guild shows" or not.....
The other problem with the whole thing is the magazine or designers or even the copyright saying that you cannot make a DERIVATIVE work from a quilt pattern and claim it as your own - but in the VERY SAME ISSUE that the RULES are in are SEVERAL quilts "designed" using public domain blocks - DERIVATIVE WORKS from run of the mill, old, everyday quilts...
What makes one "designer" derivative quilt "ok" but the next person is not allowed???
08-21-2010, 01:24 PM
#148
Super Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,460
Originally Posted by JJs
you know, Mattee, WE GET IT you do not need to keep going on and on about the copyright - WE GET IT....
The problem - as I see it and IN MY OPINION ONLY - YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY AND I don't care...
is the stupidity of having to ask mommy if you can show the quilt that you made....
why force people to go to the stupid step of asking permission to show a quilt in a quilt show - why not PUT THE INFORMATION in with the pattern in the first place - either say, "once you have your quilt completed from this pattern, you are allowed to show your quilt at guild shows" or not.....
The other problem with the whole thing is the magazine or designers or even the copyright saying that you cannot make a DERIVATIVE work from a quilt pattern and claim it as your own - but in the VERY SAME ISSUE that the RULES are in are SEVERAL quilts "designed" using public domain blocks - DERIVATIVE WORKS from run of the mill, old, everyday quilts...
What makes one "designer" derivative quilt "ok" but the next person is not allowed???
The problem - as I see it and IN MY OPINION ONLY - YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY AND I don't care...
is the stupidity of having to ask mommy if you can show the quilt that you made....
why force people to go to the stupid step of asking permission to show a quilt in a quilt show - why not PUT THE INFORMATION in with the pattern in the first place - either say, "once you have your quilt completed from this pattern, you are allowed to show your quilt at guild shows" or not.....
The other problem with the whole thing is the magazine or designers or even the copyright saying that you cannot make a DERIVATIVE work from a quilt pattern and claim it as your own - but in the VERY SAME ISSUE that the RULES are in are SEVERAL quilts "designed" using public domain blocks - DERIVATIVE WORKS from run of the mill, old, everyday quilts...
What makes one "designer" derivative quilt "ok" but the next person is not allowed???
I sure don't need any more magazines to clutter my house and they can keep their patterns many other places to get them
08-21-2010, 01:36 PM
#149
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Front row
Posts: 14,646
I won't make copies of a copyrighted pattern to resell. I won't post the copyrighted pattern online. If I display a quilt I made from a copyrighted pattern I will give the pattern credit. That's all I feel the copyright has control over me. I'm not quilting for profit in any shape form or fashion. If I win a local quilt show contest using a copyrighted pattern, yeah for me for having paid for the pattern and make the quilt. I loan quilt books and magazines and patterns to other quilters all the time. Usually I don't get them back or forget who has them.
08-21-2010, 01:59 PM
#150
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 601
JJs and Dodie,
I'm sorry if I offended you, or anyone else, but it just seems that a lot of people don't get it. People are complaining about copyright a lot on this thread, and writing about what they will and won't do, and the portions of copyright law that do and do not have "control" over them. Some people are also making it clear that they don't understand what a derivative work is.
If I was a professional designer reading this thread, I would be throwing my hands up in frustration and seriously considering throwing in the towel. I know that a lot of designers in many different crafting mediums have already done so because they are sick and tired of being ripped off by people who don't understand or don't care about copyright. It seems like there are a lot of people who fall into one of those two categories posting in this thread. I feel awful for those designers who work so hard and help bring me so many hours of enjoyment, and I want them to know that there are people out there who do care about their rights.
You may want me to stop correcting some people's misinterpretations and misinformation, but I suspect that there are some people who appreciate reading a clarification, rather than more complaints about how copyright laws just aren't fair. When people spread inaccurate information, it hurts everyone, and there have been a lot of inaccurate conclusions drawn and then spread in this thread.
I'm sorry if I offended you, or anyone else, but it just seems that a lot of people don't get it. People are complaining about copyright a lot on this thread, and writing about what they will and won't do, and the portions of copyright law that do and do not have "control" over them. Some people are also making it clear that they don't understand what a derivative work is.
If I was a professional designer reading this thread, I would be throwing my hands up in frustration and seriously considering throwing in the towel. I know that a lot of designers in many different crafting mediums have already done so because they are sick and tired of being ripped off by people who don't understand or don't care about copyright. It seems like there are a lot of people who fall into one of those two categories posting in this thread. I feel awful for those designers who work so hard and help bring me so many hours of enjoyment, and I want them to know that there are people out there who do care about their rights.
You may want me to stop correcting some people's misinterpretations and misinformation, but I suspect that there are some people who appreciate reading a clarification, rather than more complaints about how copyright laws just aren't fair. When people spread inaccurate information, it hurts everyone, and there have been a lot of inaccurate conclusions drawn and then spread in this thread.
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